Finally Dyno Tune Complete: 480HP/575tq ??? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 03-18-2016, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Finally Dyno Tune Complete: 480HP/575tq ???

So looking for advice on what, if anything, to change on my combo.

I bought the car with F-cam, Vic Jr. heads, Edlebrock Performer (yes the very old one) intake, 3.55 gears, and a crappy Treadstone 76mm turbo kit. Shortly after putting some real miles on it the cheapo SS headers developed 3 different cracks. Rather than weld them up, I decided to replace the turbo kit with components I selected myself.

I talked to 3 turbo vendors, they all recommended something different in turbo size. My goal was to push the stock block, and have a fun street machine with maybe a couple trips to the track to see what I can do with it.

In the end, I got what sounded like good advice, and went with Comp turbo 67mm, triple BB, billet wheel turbo. The advice was, you want the smallest turbo that will meet your needs. My needs were 500rwhp and fun on the streets.

Fast forward to dyno today. On 10lbs boost it made 480HP and 575TQ. The difference between HP and TQ is crazy to me. Looking at the dyno graph I would like to flatten the torque curve out some and raise the HP some.

Would an intake change accomplish what I am looking for? I think the Performer is the weak link in my combo but I know it is good for the street.

Take a look at the graph below and let me know what you think. Is the quick TQ peak and then drop off, accompanied by the HP curve and indication of the intake being a bottleneck?




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post #2 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 12:08 AM
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I'm no expert or now much about tunning but hp and tq are suppose to cross at 5252rpm and it looks like yours is at 4300ish rpm. Something is not right.

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post #3 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 04:32 AM
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I agree. With 10 PSI, I made 500 RWHP and 560 TQ. This is an earlier dyno of mine, but mine crossed at 5253 and has a very flat torque curve. After some changes, it made a little more than this but I didn't get the print out.

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post #4 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah you are right. I thought they were always supposed to cross at 52xx. I'm not sure what to do at this point. I guess i can call them and ask about that.
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post #5 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 11:07 AM
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hp and tq always intersect at 5252 rpm, its simple math.

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post #6 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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OK as indy stated, so my tuner did also. After talking with him explained that the horsepower and torque scales are different. Loving my tuner by the way, who helped me out with showing me how to scale it different and the result is the following graph.



So back to the question, intake swap in order if I want more power under the curve?

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post #7 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 05:15 PM
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Id enjoy the power you have now and save the money for a better block because eventually you'll want to up the boost
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post #8 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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I hear what you are saying but won't that just give me the same shaped graph, the difference being that the numbers will be higher?


I'd like to see horsepower keep climbing, and torque be flatter. If I'm thinking about this right I could make a combo change to reduce the low-end torque and gain high end horsepower.

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post #9 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 06:53 PM
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put a bigger hairdryer on that doesn't lose cfm at higher rpm, but does at lower rpm

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post #10 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 07:40 PM
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what's size exhaust housing are you running?


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post #11 of 31 Old 03-19-2016, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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It has a .96 exhaust.
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post #12 of 31 Old 03-20-2016, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmills4229 View Post
I hear what you are saying but won't that just give me the same shaped graph, the difference being that the numbers will be higher?


I'd like to see horsepower keep climbing, and torque be flatter. If I'm thinking about this right I could make a combo change to reduce the low-end torque and gain high end horsepower.
His tuner is correct. HP and torque lines on a graph only cross at 5252 when the absolute scale number of horsepower and torque are the same.


If you look at his graph closely, you see HP=TQ at 5252.


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post #13 of 31 Old 03-21-2016, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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I agree. With 10 PSI, I made 500 RWHP and 560 TQ. This is an earlier dyno of mine, but mine crossed at 5253 and has a very flat torque curve. After some changes, it made a little more than this but I didn't get the print out.

Dave what is your H/C/I combo?
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post #14 of 31 Old 03-21-2016, 10:36 AM
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Indy is correct about the larger compressor. Also eliminating that intake and going with a single plane carb style EFI intake manifold with 90" elbow will pull some torque from the bottom end and produce more power up top. see pics below for examples



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post #15 of 31 Old 03-21-2016, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Don't get me wrong -- I like torque down low. I just don't need 575. Any guesses how drastic the low RPM torque would be effected by a move to the 90 degree elbow intake would be?

My goal is to get as much HP under the 500/500 curve that I can up to 6000 RPMs.
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-21-2016, 09:17 PM
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Dave what is your H/C/I combo?

I built the engine a long time ago, so it's not the best combo by any means. But AFR165 heads, Trickflow stage 1 cam, and streetheat intake.
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post #17 of 31 Old 03-24-2016, 06:20 PM
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What does the tune look like? My guess is the tuner is pulling a lot of timing up top to keep the stock block alive. A boxed upper would move the hp right but to be honest I would run it as is. Should easily be a mid 10sec street car.

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post #18 of 31 Old 03-24-2016, 08:44 PM
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is it me or does the op's torque fall off rather fast
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post #19 of 31 Old 03-31-2016, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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What does the tune look like? My guess is the tuner is pulling a lot of timing up top to keep the stock block alive. A boxed upper would move the hp right but to be honest I would run it as is. Should easily be a mid 10sec street car.

Once the boost kicks in the timing is a flat 16 degrees.

Yep, I hear you. I know I'm working with basically a 500HP/TQ limit, and I just want to maximize it across the RPM range as much as possible. Kind of a waste of torque early on. I'm knitt-picking, but I work as a network engineer and I like fine control of things. I would just like to maximize it.

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post #20 of 31 Old 03-31-2016, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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is it me or does the op's torque fall off rather fast
I agree. Especially when a previous dyno run, albeit with 11.5lbs of boost vs. 10lbs of boost, showed a much flatter torque curve. On that run however the clutch started slipping and so I'm not sure how trustworthy the data is.

Came back later with a new clutch, and 1.5lbs less boost, and got the posted run. Exact same dyno.

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post #21 of 31 Old 04-01-2016, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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What about this. The engine is 331 with 8.5:1 compression. I'm pretty sure the tuner just put his base "safe" tune on it.

Doesn't 16 degrees of timing seem low for 8.5:1 compression?

Is there room to use timing to change the power and torque curve or is that messing with fire?

In the end, I'll probably just leave it alone until I can afford a different intake and just be happy with it. Really, I need some better traction at this point more than anything.

Just trying to learn some more. I love learning about these cars!

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post #22 of 31 Old 04-01-2016, 10:32 AM
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Looks all around like a fun street car. As long as the car behaves nice under various driving conditions, I'd leave it and rock it!
If you just feel compelled to tinker, I'd put a set of 3:21 or 3:31 gears tops of the list. That's also going to help you in the traction department.

Until you put a Dart block in the car, I really wouldn't put more $$$ into changing combos.
But hey, looks like a good fun car! Congratulations!

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post #23 of 31 Old 04-01-2016, 03:08 PM
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Since we're sharing similar combo's. I figured I'd throw mine up too. Stock Explorer short block. TFS 170 heads. F cam. T-moss ported cobra intake. On3 CBB 67mm turbo at 9 psi. I love the love end grunt. Makes it a ton of fun on the street.


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post #24 of 31 Old 04-01-2016, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Since we're sharing similar combo's. I figured I'd throw mine up too. Stock Explorer short block. TFS 170 heads. F cam. T-moss ported cobra intake. On3 CBB 67mm turbo at 9 psi. I love the love end grunt. Makes it a ton of fun on the street.

Wow similar combos and very similar results. I'm running a Comp Turbo 67 BB.

It is fun, but I can't even get on it hard unless I'm in forth gear due to lack of traction. Scary when wheels will smoke at 70 mph.

What tires are you running in back? Seems like the MT ETs are the tire to get.
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post #25 of 31 Old 04-01-2016, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Looks all around like a fun street car. As long as the car behaves nice under various driving conditions, I'd leave it and rock it!
If you just feel compelled to tinker, I'd put a set of 3:21 or 3:31 gears tops of the list. That's also going to help you in the traction department.

Until you put a Dart block in the car, I really wouldn't put more $$$ into changing combos.
But hey, looks like a good fun car! Congratulations!
That seems to be the going advice here. I get caught up chasing perfection, always trying to make something better and forget to enjoy what I have.
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post #26 of 31 Old 04-02-2016, 11:33 AM
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What about this. The engine is 331 with 8.5:1 compression. I'm pretty sure the tuner just put his base "safe" tune on it.

Doesn't 16 degrees of timing seem low for 8.5:1 compression?

Is there room to use timing to change the power and torque curve or is that messing with fire?

In the end, I'll probably just leave it alone until I can afford a different intake and just be happy with it. Really, I need some better traction at this point more than anything.

Just trying to learn some more. I love learning about these cars!
16* on 93 oct doesn't seem low at all. It's conservative on 10 lbs. Depending on your intake temps you could bump it up, possibly even run a little more boost.

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post #27 of 31 Old 04-05-2016, 03:32 PM
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What tires are you running in back? Seems like the MT ETs are the tire to get.
I'm running 275/40/17 Toyo TQ's. As long as they have some heat in them(just normal driving around town), mine will spin them lightly anywhere in 1st gear. And dead hook anywhere in 2nd or above.

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I have heard, not witnessed firsthand, that the MT ETs will hook in first gear even.... on 500rwhp cars.

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I have heard, not witnessed firsthand, that the MT ETs will hook in first gear even.... on 500rwhp cars.
Maybe on an auto car. Mine is a 5-speed with 3.27 gears and blows them of in first gear, also it seems a road surface is hard on them as they do not last long.

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post #30 of 31 Old 04-10-2016, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Maybe on an auto car. Mine is a 5-speed with 3.27 gears and blows them of in first gear, also it seems a road surface is hard on them as they do not last long.
Well that is a bummer. I was hoping they would be "the" tire.

I admit that I am a hard-headed individual, and that I pretty much have to learn everything the hard way. When you hear time after time that making 500rwhp doesn't do any good if you can't make it hook, but ignore it, you are in for a little bit of a let down later on when you get nothing but tire spin on the street. At first it is fun, but I want to feel the throw-you-back-in-the-seat feeling when it hooks rather than the tire spin.
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post #31 of 31 Old 04-11-2016, 08:43 AM
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At the track, and especially on the street, an M&H drag radial was way better than anything else except a slick or a MT Pro radial. I compared Nitto, MT ET Steets, and M&H street legal drag tires. M&H won't kill you on wet roads, if you are sensible.


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