363 build - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 01-29-2016, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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363 build

I'm going to convert my spare 363 engine to a turbo. I have 1-3/4 headers, but want to keep standard bolt patterns. I can get any TFS head cheap, but I have 205 CNC now. I was thinking of changing from SCAT Forged 4340 steel rotating to a calies crank and better pistons.

I can use any turbo at this stage, but anything larger than a mid size would be a clearance issue with the hood. I can only fit a 4 or 4.25 inch down pipe.

It is a solid roller cam engine.

How high should I have to spin this to make real good power but be reliable? 8K? Does this sound like a reasonable plan? The engine I have now is 24psi boost but only around 1K HP at 7500 (probably because of turbine back pressure). I want to do at least 1300 if I can, but not worry about breaking things.

Just trying to make a plan without mistakes. No mistakes is more important than initial cost.



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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #2 of 23 Old 01-29-2016, 03:07 PM
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Any thought's on using twins?

ks



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post #3 of 23 Old 01-30-2016, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Kevin...no twins. I have too much time invested in where things are at. My alternator and some electronics and my intercooler would have to move.

What I'm trying to learn is the optimum limit of RPM and boost pressure for maximum life and power. As RPM goes up I can get more air through with less boost.

RPM aggravates reciprocating force problems, and boost pushes stuff apart. It seems to me there would be some optimum mix for cost. It looks like a Callais (sp?) crank kit would cost me about $2500 and the next step up maybe $4500. I don't know what the safe RPM vs cost is, or even what the SCAT crank and rods I have now will actually handle.


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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #4 of 23 Old 01-30-2016, 07:31 PM
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With a 363ci and 1300hp goal, 8000RPM is in the ball park for what others do.

ks


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post #5 of 23 Old 01-31-2016, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KEVIN$ View Post
With a 363ci and 1300hp goal, 8000RPM is in the ball park for what others do.

ks
Yeah, just guessing I figured 8K. I guess that would take a better crank than the SCAT.


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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #6 of 23 Old 02-01-2016, 11:29 AM
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Yeah 8k shouldn't be a problem with a solid roller and the Callies crank. You're looking at the Dragonslayer? What rod are you using? I'd take strong and properly balanced connecting rods over new pistons unless you really wanted to change up the compression ratio or you're changing heads. Any quality forged 2618 FI piston should get the job done for that power level. The biggest stressor is at the rod. Those 205 TW heads should be fine as well since you want to keep standard bolt patterns. You could definitely hit 1300 with a single turbo and a 363. As far as turbo goes, I'd look at something with a 80-88mm compressor wheel and a 92-96mm wheel on the turbine side. I think about the biggest turbine you can get in a T4 housing is about 92, and the 96 would be with a T6 of course. What fuel are you running? I don't think you'll have any reliability issues making 1200-1300 on boost if you're keeping RPM at or below 8000. I've been doing some reading on NMRA Real Street setups...8K hydraulic roller setups are possible(and live) so there is no reason why a solid roller fully build 363 couldn't do it. 8000RPM is the cap on my build currently, it's a hydraulic roller 363. Once it's together, I'll let everyone know how long it stays together haha.

MFT
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post #7 of 23 Old 02-01-2016, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadFox View Post
Yeah 8k shouldn't be a problem with a solid roller and the Callies crank. You're looking at the Dragonslayer? What rod are you using?
Right now all I have in that block is the SCAT 4340 crank and 4349 H beam rods with ARP bolts. I'm trying to decide if I want to keep the SCAT and just run it, or change it all out.

It looks like a kit from Woody is about $2500, but it has the same rods. Just better pistons and crank. Woody said the rods are good enough. An engine builder that does a ton of real fast SBF stuff said the same if I say below 1300 HP and 8K. If I change the entire assembly to all good parts I'll 6K or so in it, but I probably will never go much over 1300 which I should be able to do at 8K with the heads I have.

Quote:
I'd take strong and properly balanced connecting rods over new pistons unless you really wanted to change up the compression ratio or you're changing heads. Any quality forged 2618 FI piston should get the job done for that power level.
The Diamond pistons are too thin out over the ring where the intake relief is cut. They cut it way too deep for the boost I am running. I want to overbuild the pistons.
Quote:
You could definitely hit 1300 with a single turbo and a 363. As far as turbo goes, I'd look at something with a 80-88mm compressor wheel and a 92-96mm wheel on the turbine side. I think about the biggest turbine you can get in a T4 housing is about 92, and the 96 would be with a T6 of course.
The S480 I'm installing (I might have some numbers backwards) is an 82mm inducer and 92 exducer on the turbine, and a 80mm billet wheel compressor in that anti-surge housing. They ported the housing. The place that did it does a lot of fast turbo cars. He said this turbo would be a real good match, and should pick up as much as 200 over the 7675CEA. We shall see. Mainly I need to get the back pressure and heat down. I don't really know the back pressure, but the headers keep tearing up.

Quote:
What fuel are you running?
C16 117 octane VP gasoline.

Quote:
I don't think you'll have any reliability issues making 1200-1300 on boost if you're keeping RPM at or below 8000. I've been doing some reading on NMRA Real Street setups...8K hydraulic roller setups are possible(and live) so there is no reason why a solid roller fully build 363 couldn't do it. 8000RPM is the cap on my build currently, it's a hydraulic roller 363. Once it's together, I'll let everyone know how long it stays together haha.
I'm really torn here between just running the SCAT and getting pistons, head freshening, and cam and spending less than $3000, getting the kit from Woody plus the cam and some head work which would be $5K, or spending $8-9K and doing it real nice with high ports (I have a set of high ports stashed away).

I really want to go about 0.4 faster in the 1/8th.
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89 LX. 363, single turbo, Super Vic EFI, TFS high port heads by TEA, solid roller, glide. Holley HP EFI. (exact combo varies)
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post #8 of 23 Old 02-02-2016, 02:24 PM
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GTX5518R... put the highports on...
shut the gate and let it eat!
it will blow that 1300hp mark out of the water

we have a GTX for sale right now also
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post #9 of 23 Old 02-02-2016, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRTthis798 View Post
GTX5518R... put the highports on...
shut the gate and let it eat!
it will blow that 1300hp mark out of the water

we have a GTX for sale right now also
I probably cannot fit that, and I am probably too old to drive it.
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post #10 of 23 Old 02-03-2016, 08:19 AM
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it will go mid 4's lol

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Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! in da 6's with the chutes out before the 1000'
my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
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post #11 of 23 Old 02-03-2016, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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it will go mid 4's lol
My Depends will fall off at that ET.
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post #12 of 23 Old 02-03-2016, 12:57 PM
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well if you change your mind lemme know.

we went [email protected] with it @3250lbs
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Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! in da 6's with the chutes out before the 1000'
my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
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post #13 of 23 Old 02-03-2016, 05:54 PM
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3250, how many people were in the car, or was the mini attached.
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post #14 of 23 Old 02-03-2016, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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3250, how many people were in the car, or was the mini attached.
What??


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post #15 of 23 Old 02-04-2016, 08:21 AM
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3250, how many people were in the car, or was the mini attached.
LOL the car is just heavy. we have gotten a lot weight out of it over the winter.
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Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! in da 6's with the chutes out before the 1000'
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post #16 of 23 Old 02-04-2016, 08:22 AM
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What??
we use a mini cooper to push it around the pits...

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Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! in da 6's with the chutes out before the 1000'
my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
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post #17 of 23 Old 02-06-2016, 12:18 AM
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Thanks for the input.



Right now all I have in that block is the SCAT 4340 crank and 4349 H beam rods with ARP bolts. I'm trying to decide if I want to keep the SCAT and just run it, or change it all out.

It looks like a kit from Woody is about $2500, but it has the same rods. Just better pistons and crank. Woody said the rods are good enough. An engine builder that does a ton of real fast SBF stuff said the same if I say below 1300 HP and 8K. If I change the entire assembly to all good parts I'll 6K or so in it, but I probably will never go much over 1300 which I should be able to do at 8K with the heads I have.



The Diamond pistons are too thin out over the ring where the intake relief is cut. They cut it way too deep for the boost I am running. I want to overbuild the pistons.


The S480 I'm installing (I might have some numbers backwards) is an 82mm inducer and 92 exducer on the turbine, and a 80mm billet wheel compressor in that anti-surge housing. They ported the housing. The place that did it does a lot of fast turbo cars. He said this turbo would be a real good match, and should pick up as much as 200 over the 7675CEA. We shall see. Mainly I need to get the back pressure and heat down. I don't really know the back pressure, but the headers keep tearing up.

C16 117 octane VP gasoline.



I'm really torn here between just running the SCAT and getting pistons, head freshening, and cam and spending less than $3000, getting the kit from Woody plus the cam and some head work which would be $5K, or spending $8-9K and doing it real nice with high ports (I have a set of high ports stashed away).

I really want to go about 0.4 faster in the 1/8th.
Sounds like you already got it sorted out but just need to figure out how much money to drop haha! Whatever Woody says I would go with, and the new turbo has enough wheel to get the job done for sure.

MFT
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post #18 of 23 Old 02-06-2016, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SRTthis798 View Post
GTX5518R... put the highports on...
shut the gate and let it eat!
it will blow that 1300hp mark out of the water

we have a GTX for sale right now also
Which compressor you guys got going in its place? I'm almost scared to ask hahaha!

MFT
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post #19 of 23 Old 02-06-2016, 08:02 AM
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post #20 of 23 Old 02-09-2016, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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I decided on just doing a complete rebuild with a good callies crank, ross custom pistons, oliver rods, refresh my TFS heads with better valves and springs, and a bigger solid roller. It's only a few thousand more more than a halfway rebuild, and the bottom end should be real safe at 1300-1400 HP.


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post #21 of 23 Old 02-09-2016, 12:49 PM
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you going with a magnum or a dragon slayer?

btw if they dont have it in stock get ready to wait 14-16 weeks for a SBF crank

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Roche Racing engines Billet headed windsor! in da 6's with the chutes out before the 1000'
my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
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post #22 of 23 Old 02-09-2016, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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you going with a magnum or a dragon slayer?

btw if they dont have it in stock get ready to wait 14-16 weeks for a SBF crank
Dragon, and I found one.


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post #23 of 23 Old 02-10-2016, 07:52 AM
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very cool! its a good crank! same forging as the magnum just not lightened

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my car-88lx- 408" stock block gangster!!!
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