Exhaust Evac with turbo - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 01-09-2016, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Exhaust Evac with turbo

I want to use an exhaust evac system with my on3 turbo kit. I havent bought an evac kit yet but just looking at instructions on line it says (for NA) that the weld in nipple goes at a 45* right into the merge collector, which makes sense. But say I put them in the same spot on the turbo headers and now im shooting tiny bits of oil and crap up into my turbine right? The only thing I could find was on the turboforums and it just said anywhere after the turbine. Does that mean the downpipe? Can I feed both lines into one nipple or should I weld both nipples in succession? I was hoping to hear it from another source before I did it. thanks a lot guys

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post #2 of 23 Old 01-09-2016, 10:59 PM
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That's what I run, and am very satisfied.
Here is my run down.

1) Valve covers. Whatever you want, they all share the same basic principal.
2) I've done 4 different wrong baffles. I've finally stumbled upon these and they work nicely
JEGS Performance Products 50191, JEGS Threaded Locking Valve Cover Breather | JEGS Performance Products

3) I run Fragola -8 line from each valve cover.

4) when doing my fuel system I had the briliant idea to use this Y-Block because i only have a single turbo, single down pipe.
Fuel system Y block Mustang aeromotive glenns performance sumped tank mustang tank

5) I run a single -10 into -12 fitting into a sealed catch can. I like the sealed catch can idea even though I run all year and only get about an ounce of oil because I finally found a baffle that actually works. I have zero reservations of any potential fires this may cause.
Moroso 85495, Moroso Air & Oil Separator Tanks | Moroso

6) I bought the header evac kit. What a joke!
Moroso 25900, Moroso Crankcase Evacuation System | Moroso
The check valve failed the first day.
I did a search and everyone threw that in the trash and run a:
NAPA 2-29000 and that is now what I use and it's held up just fine.

)7 forgot about #7. I run i think it's a 5/8" heater line from the end of the catch can to the check valve. I use a -12 barb fitting to do this.


1993 Teal Cobra #2531 1 of 452, 347, Precision 7675, The entire kitchen sink....maybe 2 kitchen sinks at this point!
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post #3 of 23 Old 01-09-2016, 11:04 PM
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Links didn't work

But here is the setup pictures
You can see the flute and the catch can.



This is a valve cover.
Old picture and I changed the lines & fittings.
But it's a picture for example.


1993 Teal Cobra #2531 1 of 452, 347, Precision 7675, The entire kitchen sink....maybe 2 kitchen sinks at this point!
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post #4 of 23 Old 01-10-2016, 12:05 PM
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Yes it means downpipe after the turbine, won't work pre turbine in the header on a turbo car.

07 Grabber Orange GT Prem/Vert/6060/3.55
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post #5 of 23 Old 01-10-2016, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Meegs. I was also looking at this other thread https://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...-breather.html and saw it to be pretty helpful.

Looks like some of those guys were arguing having just cans with breathers. I think I see the point of your can down there. So let me get this right. You have lines from the baffles going into a Y that goes into the can and then a single line going from the y to the can. and then a single line from the can to the nipple in the exhaust? So in case anything DOES get by the baffles then it just trickles downstream to the can? Then the exhaust can still vent that pressure? That looks legit.

I see that those napa fittings are 14 a piece, plus two 98 dollar baffles, plus a can and the flute. That looks like more than I was hoping to spend but I think this is one of those get what you pay for longterm insurance things.

How many pounds of boost are you running meegs? Or anyone else?

thanks
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post #6 of 23 Old 01-10-2016, 10:53 PM
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I had more $ running dual-12 breather cans than this setup.

Yes, that is basically how I have it ran.
From -8 baffled valve cover breathers into a Behind Bars Racecars "Y" block.
The Y is (2) -8, single (1) -10.
From the Y, into the single sealed "catch can" which is actually an air/ oil separator.
Into the NAPA check valve, which screws onto the flute.

The air/ oil separator is insurance that no oil enters the exhaust.

I run 14psi, and will double that by next year.

With sealing the PCV and using vented catch cans. That is only a Passive system.
A vacuum style setup is an Active system.
The more exhaust velocity I generate, the stronger vacuum I generate.

Everyone has opinions, and that's my opinion.
Your mileage may vary.

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post #7 of 23 Old 01-10-2016, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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Sweet thanks Meegs. I like the idea enough to try it. I think I will be anywhere from 10-15lbs or whatever gets me to around 500 whp with e85 on a stock block. Thanks for spelling it all out for me in detail. Guys like you are the reason forums can be helpful.
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post #8 of 23 Old 01-10-2016, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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One more thing... are all those flutes the same size? The napa website doesnt show me what size that screws into. I found a flute just by itself on jegs that says its 1/2" npt. Do you think theyll match up or did you use the flute from one of your previous kits?
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post #9 of 23 Old 01-11-2016, 11:06 AM
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The flute is the only thing left I'm using from the moroso "kit."
Buy the flute separate, and use the NAPA part number separate.
They are a size match.

When I was on revision 12 or 15 I was still using cheap heater hose with AN barb fittings.
That seemed to work fine, and is significantly cheaper than braided hose.
Actually I looked back at the picture I posted showing my motor. Can't remember which revision I was on at the time of the picture, but it shows Red & Blue -12 fittings with heater hose.

A current motor picture would show -8 black braided line and all black fittings.
Just saying that I started out with heater hose as a cost efficient option when I was trying to lay out my evac system.

Here is a more current picture showing the black braided line & black fittings.
Please excuse the dark picture, I'm not really a photographer.
Might also be hard to see all the black-on-black from a picture.
But it looks "finished" when viewing in person.




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post #10 of 23 Old 01-11-2016, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Sweet. Nice lookin' engine bay. Yeah, I was pricing and adding up every single fitting plus braided line with the AN fittings last night and it was getting costly. That BBRC Y alone is 56 bucks now. I will definitely do barb fittings and heater hose. I am very familiar with the irrigation section of home depot and all of their barb fitting selection lol. I think the baffles and seperator are the key and I think I can get away with skimping on lines and billet y blocks haha. thanks again man

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post #11 of 23 Old 01-11-2016, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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how much is your 347 putting down at the wheels with 14 lbs anyway? Stock block? What heads and cam?
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post #12 of 23 Old 01-11-2016, 10:23 PM
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Not sure anymore.
The 347 is just a place holder for right now. Stock block, B303, TW170's.
I wanted to keep a running car, as I build everything up.
Once the rest of the car is how I want it, I'll swap a 8.2" dart block in.

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post #13 of 23 Old 01-11-2016, 11:13 PM
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The last thing I would run is an imaginary exhaust evac unit for crank evac. There is hardly any vacuum there when on open headers and properly angled.

There is no vac at light loads, and it can be positive pressure pushing back real easy if anything is wrong. That's like 1950's tech.
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-12-2016, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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So then what would or what do you run then TomR and how has your experience been with your set up?
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post #15 of 23 Old 01-13-2016, 10:36 PM
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I tried the exhaust stuff with a pressure gauge, and never could get a vacuum unless velocity was high and the pipe was open. It may, however, be a safe place to push fumes out, if you have a way to pump them.

My final PCV setup using manifold vacuum with check valves worked perfect when I was driving on the street, but now I'm only driving the least amount possible so I just vent to air from the valve covers. I'm at 25 psi now, so I'm not sure I would trust check valves now.

No reason something like this would not work at 15 psi or less. My street/strip setup is here: PCV System
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post #16 of 23 Old 01-14-2016, 05:01 PM
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I recently installed a map sensor on a valve cover. My system is open to air on both valve covers with the passenger cover going through an oil separator then to an electric vacuum pump. My intent is to log crankcase pressure vs boost and when the pump is activated.
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Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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post #17 of 23 Old 01-14-2016, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbscobravert View Post
I recently installed a map sensor on a valve cover. My system is open to air on both valve covers with the passenger cover going through an oil separator then to an electric vacuum pump. My intent is to log crankcase pressure vs boost and when the pump is activated.
I'm also working on a sensor for the valve covers. Post some pics so I can rip off and duplicate it!
I could careless about vacuum at idle. It's when I'm putting my foot in the motor is when I start to worry about crankcase pressure. Which coincidentally is the exact time a standard manifold vacuum PCV system produces zero vacuum (most systems block it at that point with a check valve). Sounds like your electric pump for the most part is set up the same way, or not? Off on idle and on triggered by some sort of switch? You going to switch it on from RPM or boost?

The check valve from the Moroso kit was utter garbage. The second one from Moroso hit the garbage can also. Thankfully those were the only Moroso parts on the car, and now there are no more. The NAPA one has held up perfectly for 2 years of turbo use so far. Don't know if the NAPA one is the "silver bullet" but there is always potential failures for check valves- even running PCV style systems.

The other car got the open breathers, but it was at a sacrifice of oil life for sure. Couldn't find an economical electric pump for my intended use of this car.
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-15-2016, 10:48 AM
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Not trying to highjack the thread but I'm having some trouble understanding the purpose of the evac system. Could you just run a pcv valve from each valve cover to a catchcan or dump it downstream from the turbine. Hope someone can shed some light here.
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-15-2016, 03:11 PM
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I recently installed a map sensor on a valve cover. My system is open to air on both valve covers with the passenger cover going through an oil separator then to an electric vacuum pump. My intent is to log crankcase pressure vs boost and when the pump is activated.
keep us posted on the data you gather

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post #20 of 23 Old 01-15-2016, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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to break it down barney style; when under enough boost, there can be too much pressure built up inside the crankcase forcing oil out of whatever way it can find its way out (ring seals, real main seals etc). You need to vent that pressure so you don't force that oil out right? So you use either a breather to let it breathe when it builds up, or you can use a crankcase evac system which uses exhaust energy to draw any pressure/ oil out of the system through the exhaust via a venturi like effect. Basically eliminating pressure caused by boost that forces oil out of seals on your engine. Sometimes oil comes with that pressure which is why some people use an air oil seperator. The oil is filtered into a little metal can while the air continues on its way out the system. This is good because if youre a nut that analyzes your oil to see whats going on in your engine, you have a fancy little collector for it
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-16-2016, 09:09 AM
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Yeah I understand the need to vent a crankcase, I just was wondering if there was a need for a vaccume pump ect to acheave this. I'm just thinking of cars from the 60's and 70's where many of them just used a "road tube" and many (thinking of old grain trucks) basically had a catch can mounted to the valve cover. I do like the idea of collecting oil vapors in a can or burning them off in the exhaust rather than just dumping them out to the easiest spot possible. Thanks again for the info.
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post #22 of 23 Old 01-16-2016, 09:40 AM
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Yeah I understand the need to vent a crankcase, I just was wondering if there was a need for a vaccume pump ect to acheave this. I'm just thinking of cars from the 60's and 70's where many of them just used a "road tube" and many (thinking of old grain trucks) basically had a catch can mounted to the valve cover. I do like the idea of collecting oil vapors in a can or burning them off in the exhaust rather than just dumping them out to the easiest spot possible. Thanks again for the info.
I also prefer a vacuum pump over anything else. Forced induction vehicles can create a lot more air within the crankcase than a n/a car and with the additional air in the crankcase and the pistons pumping up/down the air may not vent easily w/o pushing through gaskets, etc .

I'm still perfecting my electric evac system but it's far superior than when it was just venting to the atmosphere.

https://forums.corral.net/forums/drag...case-evac.html

During the two days on the dyno and around 30 pulls the oil separator got filled up three times with white foam that we had to empty.

ks


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post #23 of 23 Old 01-16-2016, 11:24 AM
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keep us posted on the data you gather
Surely.

Quote:
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I'm also working on a sensor for the valve covers. Post some pics so I can rip off and duplicate it!
I could careless about vacuum at idle. It's when I'm putting my foot in the motor is when I start to worry about crankcase pressure. Which coincidentally is the exact time a standard manifold vacuum PCV system produces zero vacuum (most systems block it at that point with a check valve). Sounds like your electric pump for the most part is set up the same way, or not? Off on idle and on triggered by some sort of switch? You going to switch it on from RPM or boost?

The check valve from the Moroso kit was utter garbage. The second one from Moroso hit the garbage can also. Thankfully those were the only Moroso parts on the car, and now there are no more. The NAPA one has held up perfectly for 2 years of turbo use so far. Don't know if the NAPA one is the "silver bullet" but there is always potential failures for check valves- even running PCV style systems.

The other car got the open breathers, but it was at a sacrifice of oil life for sure. Couldn't find an economical electric pump for my intended use of this car.
It was pretty simple. I am running a sheet metal valve cover so I just drilled and tapped a 1/8"npt into the backside of the cover and ran a couple fittings to mount an AEM brass 2 bar map 5v reference sensor. Then it was a simple wiring to the Holley Dominator EFI input and done. I will try to snap a picture today though.

Dart 348ci, Ed Curtis cam/valvetrain, Precision 76mm, Holley Dominator EFI, CNP ignition, tons of Holler EFI small parts, 4"dp, 4R70W w/T-brake, new suspension coming soon.

Little 750rwhp at 6,000rpms and only 10lbs of boost before we just got tired of playing with clutches. New 4R70W and we are turning it up. Expecting 1,000rwhp.
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