hot side piping diameter? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 12-10-2015, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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hot side piping diameter?

Hey guys I'm in the planning stage of building a 351w turbo kit. It will be a stock bottom end, 200 cc heads, super vic efi intake, with a S475 turbo with 1.10 A/R housing. Have the motor already, and parts are ordered.

A friend of mine will be fabricating the hot side out of mild steel. What diameter piping should we use? 2 1/2 inch? I read somewhere that the diameter can affect how quick it spools..

Thanks
Colin


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post #2 of 28 Old 12-13-2015, 10:51 AM
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2.25 and keep it divided till the flange. Use 2 38mm gates.

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post #3 of 28 Old 12-13-2015, 06:32 PM
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ditto.

ks


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post #4 of 28 Old 12-15-2015, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk91coupe View Post
2.25 and keep it divided till the flange. Use 2 38mm gates.
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Originally Posted by KEVIN$ View Post
ditto.

ks
I did not expect to hear that. Thanks for your advice, will look into this

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post #5 of 28 Old 12-22-2015, 09:59 PM
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Curious why dual waste gates ? I was planning a 80mm build 408 900 rwhp . Have a nice precision 66 mm at my disposal . Is 66mm gate going to hurt me?


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post #6 of 28 Old 12-23-2015, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 351clevormustang View Post
Curious why dual waste gates ? I was planning a 80mm build 408 900 rwhp . Have a nice precision 66 mm at my disposal . Is 66mm gate going to hurt me?


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I think because they are using a divided housing and divided pipes.

Everyone around here seems to not like that idea. They all run combined pipes with a single WG even if the turbo is divided. A local shop that builds a lot of custom divided just ports the center to an edge and mixes the inlet exhaust. They were telling me it is impossible to balance the exhaust when it is divided and nothing is gained for all the work.

Same thing C&C Racecraft told me, and they do some real fast cars.

I've got no opinion, that just what two local shops and one other shop that builds some real fast stuff told me when we discussed turbos.


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post #7 of 28 Old 12-23-2015, 10:00 AM
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Yes because he is keeping it divided he needs 2 gates. Will spool alot faster. If your not divided then the one gate will be fine.

I'm starting my s480/408w outside. I'm using 2.5 divided all the way with 2 jgs 40mm gates. Looking for high 8s. I'll post pics soon. Twin scroll t6 flange with twin scroll exhaust housing. Lots of guys switch from undivided with a merge to divided and say spool is night and day. Either way should be fine. This is my first turbo build so I'll post when I find out how it feels.
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post #8 of 28 Old 12-23-2015, 07:40 PM
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Yes because he is keeping it divided he needs 2 gates. Will spool alot faster. If your not divided then the one gate will be fine.

I'm starting my s480/408w outside. I'm using 2.5 divided all the way with 2 jgs 40mm gates. Looking for high 8s. I'll post pics soon. Twin scroll t6 flange with twin scroll exhaust housing. Lots of guys switch from undivided with a merge to divided and say spool is night and day. Either way should be fine. This is my first turbo build so I'll post when I find out how it feels.
Will it really spool faster? Three places that do a lot of turbo stuff, although they are all self-taught, seem to think it is a PITA not worth doing.

I'm trying to recall exactly how one of them phrased it, but I think he cast aspersions on BW or someone about it. Two wanted to have me upgrade to a divided, but not divide the feed.

I'm real curious now.

Edit:

Some searching shows the Internet thinks no advantage either, unless the firing order is such that the pulses are 1-2-1-2-1-2 back and forth.

Like this thread:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=292204


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post #9 of 28 Old 12-23-2015, 07:52 PM
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I do alot of reading on yellow bullets and searches and that seems to be what all the turbo guys over there say. That's what I'm doing but like I say I have no idea what's better. I would think if the scroll is divided then divided hotside would work better. Depends on ci size and proper sized turbo too.
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post #10 of 28 Old 12-23-2015, 11:55 PM
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Is this correct: If divided and using one gate on one turbo then the gases from one turbo are being bled off to slow it down while the other turbo is still spinning at full speed but I don't know if this is an issue or not..

ks



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post #11 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 09:25 AM
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My stock bottom end 351w s480 turbo motor went [email protected] first 1/4 pass

2.25" divided with 2 44mm gates.

Twin turbo 94 cobra in the making.

New 2.0 build thread- http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?t=1066874
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post #12 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 09:27 AM
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If you keep it divided the whole way to the flange, run a wastegate on each bank, OR run a section of pipe from each bank near the flange to a merge with a single gate.

Dual gates are more common

Don't put a single gate on only 1 side

Twin turbo 94 cobra in the making.

New 2.0 build thread- http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?t=1066874
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post #13 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 12:24 PM
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There is no question with a divided hot side it should have two gates, but I wonder how well balanced the two gates would be.

I just don't see how they could be made to reliably synchronize. Once either gate opens, the boost will limit. That would prevent the stronger gate from opening as far.

Seems to me it is exactly like the problem we have with dual exhausts, and would require a merge area to equalize pulses and pressure.

The local shop that builds a lot of turbos said they knife edge the divider and use one merged chamber with a single waste gate, and they never see any advantage to keeping a system split. This was pretty much parroted by a shop in Kentucky that does a lot of real fast stuff. They said something about divided being diesel truck six cylinder technology.

I wonder if the divided thing is just marketing by some manufacturers, or specifically an advantage with certain systems.

But how would you keep two waste gates controlling one boost source synced perfectly, when the instant one opens the boost stops increasing to both?


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post #14 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94_cobRa View Post
My stock bottom end 351w s480 turbo motor went [email protected] first 1/4 pass

2.25" divided with 2 44mm gates.
Awesome times man. I ordered my s480 from Jose and my 2 gates. I'm hoping for times like you as well. That is great MPH
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post #15 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 12:50 PM
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Why not keep it divided all the way to a single waste gate like they do on the Ford Sierra Cosworth in the UK ?



Edit to add - the Cosworth is a 4 cylinder and the pic shows two manifolds for some reason
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post #16 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 02:56 PM
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Why not keep it divided all the way to a single waste gate like they do on the Ford Sierra Cosworth in the UK ?



Edit to add - the Cosworth is a 4 cylinder and the pic shows two manifolds for some reason
See, that makes a lot of sense. It looks planned. They do not run consecutively fired cylinders into the same inlet, and they use one wastegate equally tied to both.


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post #17 of 28 Old 12-24-2015, 07:06 PM
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That setup would be killer for a twin setup. Either would be great. Their is no wrong way cause they both work. I'm doing it cause its easier and the 2.5 pipes fits great in the t6 flange. Keep the gates the same distance from the header on each side and let her eat. I mean if a stock 351w runs 155 doing it, it obviously works.
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post #18 of 28 Old 12-29-2015, 10:04 PM
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Anyone have pics?

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post #19 of 28 Old 12-29-2015, 10:07 PM
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I am waiting on my turbo from FI to get here. Soon as it does I'm starting my crossover and turbo mounting. Will have plenty of pics soon.
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post #20 of 28 Old 12-29-2015, 10:17 PM
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I am in the middle of building my first turbo setup. I bought a stock block 408 with a turbo that has a ON3 kit. So I am trying to figure out if this kit is ok the way it is. I will be building a 363 real soon with a S480 turbo. So the more I can learn the better.

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post #21 of 28 Old 12-30-2015, 09:36 AM
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That's the turbo I ordered. I am excited to get it. I'll post pics when it arrives. This is my first and hopefully only build. I have researched and gathered alot of info/advice so I'm hoping it pays off.
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post #22 of 28 Old 12-31-2015, 07:43 AM
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If your concerned about it spooling, I would be more concerned with the camshaft selection/compression ratio.

Obviously the more compression you can run will make ( on smaller inch motors) it spool faster and make more power on lower boost levels.

Camshaft and camshaft timing can make a huge difference on how fast it will spool.

If you can afford it, have Cam motion or Bullet spec you a custom turbo grind. This is money well spent.
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post #23 of 28 Old 01-01-2016, 04:11 PM
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Yea I will have bullet do my cam shaft but I already have the specs I want or need. They Grinded my last cam shaft they did great work.

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post #24 of 28 Old 01-02-2016, 02:46 PM
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Lil John over on yellowbullets grinds great turbo cams. Just a thought.
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post #25 of 28 Old 01-09-2016, 12:06 AM
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I just called him the other day. He Seems like a cool guy. I wouldn't mind driving up to his shop.

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post #26 of 28 Old 01-09-2016, 02:37 PM
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He gave me alot of advice about my cam and hot side. He has done tons and turbo cams and kits. I expect my cam to do great.
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post #27 of 28 Old 01-18-2016, 12:54 PM
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called him, I will be taking a little road trip up to see him soon. He is only 90 mins away from my house. Since you are from my area maybe we will meet up some time at bowling green?

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post #28 of 28 Old 01-18-2016, 08:47 PM
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Yeah I'd like to do that. I have only ran at I40 dragway. Actually got my S480 today. Hopefully be done with the hotside in a couple weeks and I can get some pics.

I think you would be very happy with Lil John. Super nice guy and great tech help.
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