New Hotside being installed - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 204 Old 12-06-2015, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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New Hotside being installed

I'm making some changes to the hot side of my TT car and I wanted to document the progress. The current hot side for the twin turbos was made by the original owner and there was a lot of issues with it that I hope I can correct.

Issues I hope to correct:
Crappy and ugly tubing bends
The wide front tires hit the exhaust pipes when turning.
Slow Spoolup
No front sway Bar
Need for front coilovers

This new setup starts with some custom CG Fab headers that Caleb made for me that use 2.25" collectors instead of 2.5". I've done a lot of research and discovered that there are plenty of cars making 1200-1800 hp with 2.25" hot side piping and they used the smaller tubing to speed up spool time. Since I'm only going for 900hp I'll be reducing the 2.25" collectors to 2" which should keep the velocity of the exhaust up and hopefully get the turbos spooling faster.

I'm tired of the noise the coilovers make so I'm going to try and put stock front springs on it. This will be a huge challenge so we may need to get creative with the exhaust routing.

Although the car drives fine without a sway bar with the coilovers I'm not sure it will drive the same with the stock springs in it so I'm going to try and get a sway bar on it. This will require a custom sway bar and mounts to be made but I have a preliminary quote for $500 to have one made and an idea of how to mount it. I've mocked up some new mounts which I'll post later but it basically mounts the swaybar farther forward and down.

Here's a pic of the custom headers. The passenger side didn't fit and required the use of a hammer and grinder to gain clearance to the frame and K-member. I'm afraid it's still going to hit the k-member but I didn't want to grind anymore nor dent the headers deeper. Pretty PO'd about needing to do this but not much could be done.


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post #2 of 204 Old 12-06-2015, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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The headers fit w/o needing to move the motor up but the A/C unit had to be removed.

Messaged the header to clear the Kmember and frame.


I bought a pair of these flanges then machined off everything except the V-band flange then had a buddy weld the flange onto the exhaust housing. Doing it this way was cheaper than buying new housings and I could tailor the length of the flange to what I needed. Right now it looks like I will have about 1/2" between the two down pipes. I also machined a .2" deep step in the flange so the down pipes will stick into the flange keeping everything perfectly centered/sealed.



Here's one of the 2.25" to 2" reducer.


Spent most of the day making brackets to hold the turbos in the desired position but should have them done Monday/Tuesday. I'm also fine tuning the sway bar mounts but once all these parts are done we can start mocking tubes together.

ks



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post #3 of 204 Old 12-08-2015, 01:01 PM
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I had to notch my frame on the passenger side as well to get my header to fit.
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post #4 of 204 Old 12-08-2015, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 67mustang99 View Post
I had to notch my frame on the passenger side as well to get my header to fit.
Thanks for the info. I haven't heard of anyone needing to do this.

ks


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post #5 of 204 Old 12-10-2015, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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A little bit of progress this week. Spent several days making the fixture to locate the turbos solidly but still allow me to clock them for the best fit.
We connected the exhaust housings together with a 3" tube that clamps onto the V-band rings that were welded to the housings. This tube was then welded to the brackets that are bolted to the block allowing each turbo to spin freely on the end of the tube.

I don't have a pic of them but I had custom turbo flanges made that are 1/2" thick with a round hole so they fit the 2" hot side pipes. Cost: less than $20/pr.




Here's the mock up of the sway bar and brackets on the passenger side. The position looks great and it looks like we should have room to run all the piping and still run a custom sway bar.



Here Curtis is messaging the inside of the pipes for the driver side pipe that comes off the header.



ks
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post #6 of 204 Old 12-12-2015, 09:09 AM
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Nice work

Two turbos and a carb...
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post #7 of 204 Old 12-12-2015, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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thnx! Got a lot done today but forget the camera. The driver side hot side is all tacked together and is about 14"-16" long from the collector to the turbo which is a lot shorter than the 4ft it used to be.

It looks like there will be room for the 3" pipes around the stock springs and stock A-arms on the driver side. The passenger side will require some creativity, though. We need to cut the collector off and shorten it about 1.5"-2" and put a 90* bend on the end of it.

The sway bar mounts also need to be moved in about 1.5"-2" to inside the frame rails otherwise the tires will hit the sway bar. So far everything looks doable.

Need more piping so we're at a standstill until the material comes in.

ks


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post #8 of 204 Old 12-13-2015, 10:26 AM
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Nice work my friend!

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post #9 of 204 Old 12-13-2015, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thank You! It won't look as nice as yours but if it all fits I'll be happy.

I decided that I will be doing some custom v-band flanges with O-rings on the cold side piping to the IC. This will get rid of the ugly rubber hose splicing the two halves together and the O-rings should seal it good.

ks


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post #10 of 204 Old 12-13-2015, 11:54 PM
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VERY nice work!

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post #11 of 204 Old 12-21-2015, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't had much progress b/c I am waiting on tubing but I did machine the v-flanges on the inlet side for O-rings. This eliminates the hose splices that connect some of the cold side piping together. If I decide to have some parts chrome plated then this should look a lot nicer.

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post #12 of 204 Old 01-03-2016, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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Four steps forward and three steps back but we've made some progress this last week. We constantly needed to alter the position of the sway bar in order to get everything to fit like I want which required redoing all the piping a few times. I'm trying to make sure all the pipes have as smooth of bends as possible and access to bolts, drain lines, radiator hoses, etc are easy.
We'll also be making new power steering and AC lines and routing them away from all the exhaust pipes.

You can see in one of the pics that we ended up cutting off the collector on the pass. side header and welding an elbow on it. This allowed us to run the piping over the top of the sway bar which also made that pipe nice and short at only 14" long.

Great news for me is that it looks like we can run the 3" down pipes behind the stock springs so I can get rid of the coilovers. In order to run the exhaust behind the stock spring the 3" pipe had to run directly under the oil filter so we're going to make a removable section in that area.

It looks tight but there should be just enough room to get the wastegates in there even tho each hot side pipe will have two O2 bungs. Things are getting tight!

I also concluded that since there is only about 3/8" between the pass. header and the K-member even after messaging the header we're going to cut the top corner of k-member tube off then add nice gussets under and around that area. When we get that far I'll take pics.

Currently we're at a standstill until the ABS delete arrives. Once it arrives we can finish the cold side piping on the passenger side, then make the turbo bracket, then install the down pipes then........

Driver Side Turbo Bracket. When the brackets are done I think I'm going to have them zinc plated:




Passenger side collector that we cut off and added an elbow:


Driver side collector and 3" exhaust pipe routed behind stock spring. To make sure we have enough clearance we jacked up the A-arm until the strut topped out against the CC plate then located the 3" pipe to clear it all. We tried to have at least 1/2" clearance between the 3" pipe and the rubber boot on the inner tie rod.




Passenger side piping to the turbo. Here you can see the custom turbo flange I had made for 2" piping:


Driver side piping to the turbo:


ks


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post #13 of 204 Old 01-03-2016, 09:58 PM
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What are you going to do to protect that CV boot being so close to the exhaust pipe?
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post #14 of 204 Old 01-03-2016, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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What are you going to do to protect that CV boot being so close to the exhaust pipe?
I haven't fully decided yet since we haven't got it all placed just yet but if we have enough room we'll make shields that sit off the hot pipes about 1/8"-1/4" to shield the heat from the boots. If needed we also plan to flatten the pipes in a press about 1/4"-3/8" to gain a little clearance in the tight areas.

ks


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post #15 of 204 Old 01-07-2016, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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A few more pics.
All the pieces for the 3" down pipe are made and assembled for the drivers side. We still need to create a removable section under the oil filter and some rubber mounts for the pipe that runs behind the coil spring but all the pieces are made to the rear of the A-arm. The 3" piping will be made up of several removable sections to ease maintenance and assembly and the one section behind the spring will be held onto the k-member with several rubber mounts so all the pieces will be supported and located properly whenever it's disassembled. The passenger side down pipe is next on the agenda along with the WG's.

From what we've done thus far it looks we can move the location of the custom sway bar down about 3/8"-1/2" and move it closer to the motor about 1" which should give us more clearance for the piping and make the sway bar easier to bend to clear the front tires.



Passenger side Turbo Bracket:


Pics of the two down pipes:


ks


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post #16 of 204 Old 01-08-2016, 02:38 AM
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Awesome!

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post #17 of 204 Old 01-08-2016, 02:00 PM
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Kevin,

When you figure out something to protect the rack boots, let me know. My single turbo kit places each portion of the merge really close to rack boots (even though I have them covered with wrap and some other heat rejection material) and I have burned through.

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post #18 of 204 Old 01-08-2016, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Kevin,

When you figure out something to protect the rack boots, let me know. My single turbo kit places each portion of the merge really close to rack boots (even though I have them covered with wrap and some other heat rejection material) and I have burned through.
How close are the pipes to the boots on your car?

At normal ride height mine are about .75-1" away and I was curious if I even needed heat shields. But if I do I would make them like motorcycle heat shields that would attach about 1/8-1/4" off the main pipes. As I'm thinking about this right now I wonder if I can make a shield that fits partially over the boot instead? Hmm, I may have to look at that tomorrow when I go back out to work on it.

ks


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post #19 of 204 Old 01-11-2016, 01:02 AM
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Hey Kevin,

My pipe on a single turbo, and I am banging the thing hard, touches the boot with the car hanging up off the ground.

I drove around with air intentionally holding the WG open, and it got so hot it melted the air hose I had to the WG, but it did not bother my boot.

Thanks for the brackets. The new housing is all done. Just have to load parts in it.

I also got a bigger turbo on the way. I was at about 11. Hoping for 13.


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post #20 of 204 Old 01-11-2016, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, Tom.
It looks like the shields will have to be mounted onto the pipes. I didn't see a nice/clean way to mount them solidly to the rack although I didn't spend a lot of time trying to find a way. Most of my time was spent installing the ABS delete and new brake lines to clear the pass. header and making aluminum brake line separators to locate/hold them solidly.

ks


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post #21 of 204 Old 01-12-2016, 12:59 PM
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How close are the pipes to the boots on your car?

At normal ride height mine are about .75-1" away and I was curious if I even needed heat shields. But if I do I would make them like motorcycle heat shields that would attach about 1/8-1/4" off the main pipes. As I'm thinking about this right now I wonder if I can make a shield that fits partially over the boot instead? Hmm, I may have to look at that tomorrow when I go back out to work on it.

ks
The pipes are very close at ride height. Probably too close, but that is what I have to work with. I wrapped the pipes and wrapped the rack boots. It seemed to help for a while, but to my disappointment, I had burned through another set of rack boots. I'm looking for alternatives to modifying the hot side currently.

'91 GT: SOLD

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post #22 of 204 Old 01-12-2016, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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I'll definitely post what I end up doing. I just hope it works..

ks


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post #23 of 204 Old 01-12-2016, 09:09 PM
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Looking good man. Very nice work
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post #24 of 204 Old 01-12-2016, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thank You. Curtis has actually been doing most of the fabbing on the piping lately so he deserves the credit. He's had a few weeks off work and has made most of what is posted. He's itching to actually start welding it all together but I'm reigning him in until everything is mocked up. Once everything fits then I'll turn him loose on it.

He's been wanting to do welding jobs as a side gig so maybe this will help him get some clientele.


ks


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post #25 of 204 Old 01-15-2016, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Since we need to reroute a couple of the power steering lines they will be converted to -6AN lines. The one on top of the hydroboost will be routed through the fender but I've read a few comments where the aftermarket fittings may leak around the O-ring. So I bought a -6AN fitting with the correct thread and modified it by machining the end off then making a teflon button that will be compressed at the bottom of the hole when tightened. I also bought another fitting that had an O-ring under the hex head and installed it on the new fitting so it has two sealing features.

BEFORE:


AFTER:


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post #26 of 204 Old 01-17-2016, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN$ View Post
How close are the pipes to the boots on your car?

At normal ride height mine are about .75-1" away and I was curious if I even needed heat shields. But if I do I would make them like motorcycle heat shields that would attach about 1/8-1/4" off the main pipes. As I'm thinking about this right now I wonder if I can make a shield that fits partially over the boot instead? Hmm, I may have to look at that tomorrow when I go back out to work on it.

ks
My boots are pretty close...they haven't shown any evidence of heat damage...well at least yet.

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post #27 of 204 Old 01-24-2016, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Making some progress lately and it's looking damn good. The down pipes are all fitted to behind the stock coil springs so from there it's back to the mufflers. We are at a point where we need to start adding the v-band flanges to make assembly easier. The pipes that run behind the springs will be located with a couple hangers that I'll design to be quick disconnect.



With all the new turbo piping new power steering hoses are needed so I'll be converting them to AN fittings. The black fitting in the picture will be replaced with a zinc plated one like the other two and the lines will be run through the fender.




ks


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post #28 of 204 Old 01-24-2016, 10:43 AM
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very nice work!

one suggestion in that last pic, there is too much strain on those two SS braided lines,,,,,suggest you put another 90 fitting or a 180 to begin with

the third fitting seems like it will have enough radius.

89 GT gr-40, KB2200(10psi), tweecer R/T,LC-1, 22gal cell, w/tailpipes.
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post #29 of 204 Old 01-24-2016, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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very nice work!

one suggestion in that last pic, there is too much strain on those two SS braided lines,,,,,suggest you put another 90 fitting or a 180 to begin with

the third fitting seems like it will have enough radius.
Thanks for the compliments it's greatly appreciated!

Also thanks for the suggestions on the hoses this reassures my own thoughts. I don't like any of those bends at all and I've been struggling with what to do about it for a week. Russel doesn't have a high pressure (2000psi) 180* fitting for teflon hose. I've debated making my own out of steel lines so I can route it properly into the fender then use SS braided from there but I can't make nice tight bends with the bender I have (1.5" radius). I've only seen a few write ups on doing this and they either run them in the stock location or bend them like in the pic.
If I can find a 180* I would then be able to bend it back a little to fit the individual locations of the fittings.
Maybe I'll change MFR's of the fittings and hoses and start over..aarrg.

Edit:
Earls seems to have the 180* fittings and it appears that their recommended braided hose matches Russells braided hose specs so I think I'll order the Earls 180* fittings and give those a shot...$$$.

ks


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post #30 of 204 Old 01-24-2016, 12:57 PM
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Yeah, I am sure there is something out there, just takes a lot of time trying to source little parts....and usually costs $$ for single fittings...

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post #31 of 204 Old 01-24-2016, 01:13 PM
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Great job, its coming along nicely.
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post #32 of 204 Old 01-26-2016, 09:42 PM
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120* would probably be enough but if not Earls makes thme in 160* also in -6an for ptfe hose.

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post #33 of 204 Old 01-28-2016, 02:27 PM
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Location: NJ
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awesome attention to detail, looks great

1997 Mustang GT
1997 Mustang GT
10:1, TF heads, Turbo cams, 7675, E85, 4R70W, Holley EFI
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post #34 of 204 Old 01-30-2016, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lincoln NE
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We got the 3" all routed and tacked and everything came out great!! The 3" pipes fit behind the stock springs w/o issues. We got the PS side to fit around the starter and frame with about 3/8" clearance but this is not enough, IMO, so some messaging will be done in those areas where it's too close. Next is to install all the v-band rings in the hot side and the cold side pipes, design the quick release hangers then it all gets welded! Even though it seems like this is nearing the end we still figure there is 6-8 weeks more work to do in getting all the little things done.

Since we've got the pipes to fit like I want I ordered new A-arms and springs so those will be installed when it's all completed.

I have a great idea for the quick disconnect couplers that will support the pipes and I can't wait to see how it looks/works when we're done.





Here's the power steering lines with the 180* fittings. This makes the lines fit a lot better but due to the different MFR's used the color of the zinc plating is off..oh well. The braided lines rout down through the inner fender through a 2" hole which will be rimmed with a large rubber grommet.



I'm liking this idea. I bought a MrGasket fuel block and I mounted this inside the strut tower and the low pressure lines connect to this "tee" keeping the low pressure lines hidden.



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Kevin Slaby
2002 GT 2V 902hp/820tq through the muffs.
http://baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/balrog.htm
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post #35 of 204 Old 01-31-2016, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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I finally got the power steering lines completed. I still need to make a couple separators to keep it more organized. I also need to make one more line that goes from the blue fitting at the tee through the strut tower to the bottom of the reservoir.



ks


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Kevin Slaby
2002 GT 2V 902hp/820tq through the muffs.
http://baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/balrog.htm
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