Took my On3 Cobra to the dyno... - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 55 Old 11-10-2012, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Took my On3 Cobra to the dyno...

Took the car yesterday 11-9-12
Well I have been working on this car off and on most of the summer.
In short, I have a 97 Cobra 4V with a MMR1000, ported B heads, turbo cams and a MMR intake. I put the FF0n3 kit on with a turbonectics 78MM turbo. 80# FMS injectors and a BA5000 slot mass air. Every thing is new so I took it to the dyno to get it tuned. At first he could not get it to run under any load with out hesitation. After a while he got it worked out for the most part. He had to turn of the o2's.
The car is at 13# on springs. It would pull good, spool hard and fast about 3500 but when it hit 5,000 rpm it would start to break up. We ran out of time and he could not figure it out.
At that point it made 417RWH and 437F#T at 5,000 rpm with 16 deg of timing on a mustang dyno. Fuel PSI held at 52#'s when it hit boost with out dropping.
I changed the plugs from a TR7e reduced tip gaped at 20 to a TR6 standard gaped at 25, cleaned up all the coil grounds, replaced the coils. I don't think I have a motor to chasey ground. Just the bat to chasey.
Took it for a ride today. Drivability is good. Idle, From a start is good.It can pull hard in 1st 2nd, or even break spool it in second at a low speed and it pulls hard till 5,000. Pulls hard on the freeway, Just wont go much over 5,000 with out missing. No knock or miss codes. Not lean on the AME wide band. and Fuel PSI is good.
Other the the pass side pipe sitting right on the lower control arm every thing fits good. Im going to have to remove the pipe and notch it or dent it alot
I was thinking of pulling a cold side pipe and trying it out with no boost at all or trying a lower PSI to see what it dose. My goal it 20+ lbs. I think its in the tune. It pulls good just dies at the top.
I don't think it valve float. MMR did the heads and springs to go along with the cams.

I need to find a tuner that knows these cars.
What do you think?


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post #2 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 09:45 AM
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What fuel systems in the car?

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post #3 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 10:19 AM
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Sounds like it either the maf or ignition setup. I would unplug the maf and see if it will rev past 5000rpm without going into boost.

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6.67 @ 106mph, still tuning...
Displacement is no replacement for boost
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post #4 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 10:49 AM
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What plug wires do you have on the car? And I assume you are using the stock coil packs on the car. Also what timing are you at right now?

The last time I had seen a problem like this was on a FAST setup, however, it turned out the plug wires were the culprit. Also, between a timing light and the ECU, the ECU would read about 6 degrees difference at the top, but as much as 15 degrees difference down low. Replaced with Magnacor wires and the hesitation went away, and the timing was dead on between the ECU and timing light.

I would also add a engine to chassis ground.

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post #5 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 11:05 AM
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Valve spring specs?

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post #6 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemusclebullies View Post
What fuel systems in the car?
GP1000 HP sleeper system with twin pumps.

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post #7 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTsStang View Post
Sounds like it either the maf or ignition setup. I would unplug the maf and see if it will rev past 5000rpm without going into boost.
Can I just un plug the mass, remove one of the cold side pipes to prevent boost and give it a try?

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post #8 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyrider564 View Post
What plug wires do you have on the car? And I assume you are using the stock coil packs on the car. Also what timing are you at right now?

The last time I had seen a problem like this was on a FAST setup, however, it turned out the plug wires were the culprit. Also, between a timing light and the ECU, the ECU would read about 6 degrees difference at the top, but as much as 15 degrees difference down low. Replaced with Magnacor wires and the hesitation went away, and the timing was dead on between the ECU and timing light.

I would also add a engine to chassis ground.
The wires are Ford racing 8mm, but they are a bit old. I should replace them.
The coils were MSD. I put the stock ones back on, removed the TR7 plugs, gaped at 0.020 and put in TR6's at 0.025 Timing is at 16deg
I will add a ground from the head to the fire wall.

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post #9 of 55 Old 11-11-2012, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbedstangeater View Post
Valve spring specs?
Manley High Performance 4V spring kit (does not fit GT500) (Manley Part# 221434-32)
Recommended for all Forced induction applications and aftermarket camshafts, compatible with all factory locks and retainers. Up to .525 Lift 95lbs seat pressure/260 open pressure
100742

From MMR, instaled by them when they did the port and valve job.

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post #10 of 55 Old 11-12-2012, 12:39 AM
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make sure the voltage from the alternator isnt dropping at 5000


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Turbo 2v
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post #11 of 55 Old 11-12-2012, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LS1KILR View Post
make sure the voltage from the alternator isnt dropping at 5000
Good idea. I did put a new battery in the car that morning before going to the Dyno.

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post #12 of 55 Old 11-12-2012, 10:10 AM
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This is who tunes my car. Down in Dayton:

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post #13 of 55 Old 11-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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Seat pressures a little low

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post #14 of 55 Old 11-13-2012, 03:26 PM
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You should have a two grounds from the engine to the chassis. My 97 had a large one and a much smaller one near where the K-member bolts up on the drivers side.


The car won't run right without these.

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post #15 of 55 Old 11-13-2012, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tireburner163 View Post
You should have a two grounds from the engine to the chassis. My 97 had a large one and a much smaller one near where the K-member bolts up on the drivers side.


The car won't run right without these.
Thanks
I will add these also and give it a test.

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post #16 of 55 Old 11-13-2012, 08:18 PM
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A good data log of events will shed light on what is going on with correct PID/DMR selected. I am assuming SCT software being used with tuning? If so you can download livelink from SCT website and log yourself with programmer.

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post #17 of 55 Old 11-14-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buds91LX View Post
The wires are Ford racing 8mm, but they are a bit old. I should replace them.
The coils were MSD. I put the stock ones back on, removed the TR7 plugs, gaped at 0.020 and put in TR6's at 0.025 Timing is at 16deg
I will add a ground from the head to the fire wall.
sounds like the wires are your issue..

we had the EXACT same issue as you with my friend's car on Sunday.

after 20 passes or so...we swapped out the wires ..fixed any and all loose grounds and it made 3 clean passes back to back...

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post #18 of 55 Old 11-14-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
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Seat pressures a little low

^^^THIS!^^^

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post #19 of 55 Old 11-14-2012, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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It dosent feel like valve float. Could be.

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post #20 of 55 Old 11-14-2012, 10:23 PM
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Did you add the grounds?

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post #21 of 55 Old 11-15-2012, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Replaced grounds
New plugs
New coils
Went over injector plugs
Removed crapy alarm. The dome light would come on with the headlights.
Replaced the driver side cam cover.

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post #22 of 55 Old 11-15-2012, 01:18 PM
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Run any better? I hate chasing electrical gremlins.

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post #23 of 55 Old 11-15-2012, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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Haven't tested it out yet. I will try to tonight.

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post #24 of 55 Old 11-15-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbedstangeater View Post
Seat pressures a little low
Not really, if he just wants 20lbs he is fine with those springs. Any more, he would want a lil better.....


Also i would use br7ef spark plugs. Cheaper than what you're using and better.
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post #25 of 55 Old 11-25-2012, 05:21 PM
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Any update on this? I was just curious.


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post #26 of 55 Old 11-25-2012, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Ran the same, Need to make time to take it to another tuner. It snowed a little over the weekend. May be stuck till spring.
I cut the pass side hot pipe and re routed it. It was hitting the lower control arm bad.

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post #27 of 55 Old 12-01-2012, 06:42 PM
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Have you checked for boost leaks? sounds like you are hitting fuel cut.
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post #28 of 55 Old 12-01-2012, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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No leaks.
I have a twin pump return style system at 52psi with 80# injectors.

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post #29 of 55 Old 12-02-2012, 11:16 AM
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Those valve springs have been used in many 4v cars pushing over 1k at the rear wheels. I have no clue why some people said that could be the issue. They are heavier then the Comps Cam 26123 that people were having issues with and the shop I deal with has a 4v mach1 that pushes well over 1200rwhp with a th400 trans using them.
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post #30 of 55 Old 12-02-2012, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Those valve springs have been used in many 4v cars pushing over 1k at the rear wheels. I have no clue why some people said that could be the issue. They are heavier then the Comps Cam 26123 that people were having issues with and the shop I deal with has a 4v mach1 that pushes well over 1200rwhp with a th400 trans using them.
Thank you for that. That is now one less thing I will stress over.

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post #31 of 55 Old 12-02-2012, 10:20 PM
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Have you checked for A/C voltage present. ? I chased this one time and was causing the ignition to go crazy under load.


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post #32 of 55 Old 12-03-2012, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Have you checked for A/C voltage present. ? I chased this one time and was causing the ignition to go crazy under load.


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I have a new battery, and ground to motor strap
What would be the best way to check this?

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post #33 of 55 Old 12-03-2012, 07:55 AM
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What I want to know is why couldn't the tuner figure out why it was breaking up at 5k rpm? He should have been datalogging the dyno runs so it should have been apparent what was causing the issue. My tuner doesn't know the phrase "ran out of time". He will reschedule other people to make sure your car is right before it leaves.

I am interested in knowing what it turns out to be, good luck!

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post #34 of 55 Old 12-03-2012, 08:46 AM
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What I want to know is why couldn't the tuner figure out why it was breaking up at 5k rpm? He should have been datalogging the dyno runs so it should have been apparent what was causing the issue. My tuner doesn't know the phrase "ran out of time". He will reschedule other people to make sure your car is right before it leaves.
I'd assume he was datalogging, but not every issue will show up in a datalog. I have a feeling the tuner hit a wall and chocked it up to being a mechanical issue.

Timing typically doesn't' cause a misfire, and if the AFR is in the ball park, I would put my money on an ignition issue also.

Ignition problems can be caused by a lot of things though. From the basic things like plug wires and grounds, to things like crank trigger issues.

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Last edited by jaeger6; 12-03-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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post #35 of 55 Old 12-03-2012, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'd assume he was datalogging, but not every issue will show up in a datalog. I have a feeling the tuner hit a wall and chocked it up to being a mechanical issue.

Timing typically doesn't' cause a misfire, and if the AFR is in the ball park, I would put my money on an ignition issue also.

Ignition problems can be caused by a lot of things though. From the basic things like plug wires and grounds, to things like crank trigger issues.
This is all good stuff.
I removed the coil brackets, cleaned all the contact points and grounds, tried 2 sets of coils, 3 sets of plugs, TR7 thenTR6. New battery, new wires, added a ground strap from the block to the frame.
The crank triger wheel is new with the motor. The sensors or pick ups, are not.
Could it bad a bad injector? or 2?
I am going to try a differant tuner but it may not be till spring.
Not sure who is close and good in cleveland area.

When tuning , he had to turn of the O2'sbecause it would start to break up under any load.
Im thinking its the mass air and or tuner.

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