600+WHP 2V Dyno STOCK vs BIG Cams! - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 08-26-2012, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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600+WHP 2V Dyno STOCK vs BIG Cams!

Few weeks back I dyno'd 605whp/561wtq with wastegate pressure (~13psi) on my built 4.6L 2V. I was running very large cams left from my previous supercharger setup. I had very slow spool and felt it was hurting my power. After researching a bunch online, I decided to go back to a stock cam to compare. And the results were AMAZING!!!

Stage 3 Blower Cams: [.545I/.545E Lift][242I/250E @ .050" Duration][114 LSA]
Stock/OEM Cams: [.507I/.534E Lift][200I/210E @ .050" Duration]

Black: STG3 Cams w/16.5' timing, 13psi
Yellow: Stock Cams w/ 14' timing, 13psi
* Everything else was unchanged! Gained 91TQ, 40HP and much fatter powerband!






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post #2 of 37 Old 08-26-2012, 09:26 PM
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Looks about right. Stock cams picked up hp/tq everywhere!


07 Grabber Orange GT Prem/Vert/6060/3.55
S&H Twin turbo kit, 6262 oil-less Comp turbos
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post #3 of 37 Old 08-26-2012, 09:58 PM
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Little ON3 turbo doin work!

305/333 WHP/WTQ with CMS Stage II Cams
440/552 WHP/WTQ on Nitrous
7.86, @ 89.1mph, 1.61 60 foot, on Motor
7.15, @ 98.8mph, 1.55 60 foot, on Spray
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post #4 of 37 Old 08-26-2012, 10:00 PM
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Whats the compression ratio?

305/333 WHP/WTQ with CMS Stage II Cams
440/552 WHP/WTQ on Nitrous
7.86, @ 89.1mph, 1.61 60 foot, on Motor
7.15, @ 98.8mph, 1.55 60 foot, on Spray
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post #5 of 37 Old 08-26-2012, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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-18cc dish pistons, 38cc heads. I've tried numerous online calulators but can't seem to get an accurate #. Should be a little over 10:1.

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post #6 of 37 Old 08-27-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightblade View Post
Looks about right. Stock cams picked up hp/tq everywhere!
Yep, looks just like your chart you had posted for me!

Stocks cams seem to work very well on turbo cars!

It really surprised me to see a stock cam outperform his huge cams even at the high end like that.

Ill post a before/after of my car with stockers vs my cams as well.

Although mine are no where near as aggressive as Josh's, I still hope to gain power everywhere
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post #7 of 37 Old 08-27-2012, 10:44 AM
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Wow that's crazy! I wouldnt have thought that! Def something to consider when im uppin the boost with my car lol

01 Gt vert....Lsx Forged 408 H/C/I....built T56...8.8 w/3.73s 510hp 486tq
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post #8 of 37 Old 08-27-2012, 11:39 AM
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Also look at the shift in power band. Peak torque comes in 1,000 rpms sooner bringing in peak power around 500 rpms sooner! Big difference you can feel in the seat of the pants for sure.

07 Grabber Orange GT Prem/Vert/6060/3.55
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post #9 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 01:39 PM
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The stock cams are great for a lower rpm and lower boost setup. What intake was this with? I'd like to see the comparison once a larger turbo is installed and running more boost and rpm

03 Mustang GT
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post #10 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1KILR View Post
The stock cams are great for a lower rpm and lower boost setup. What intake was this with? I'd like to see the comparison once a larger turbo is installed and running more boost and rpm
I think he has a trick flow intake manifold

It really doesn't look like his power is lower than the other cams till about 6300-6400 rpms

I'll post what my setup does with stock cams vs my blower cams soon. I've got the eddy manifold, ported heads, and a billet 67 mm
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post #11 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 03:14 PM
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Interesting. I'd like to know what would happen if I swapped my current cams back for some stock ones, or at least smaller ones actually spec'd for a turbo setup. Mine are 234/230, .550/.500, 115LSA made for a roots blower. I'd love to drop my spool time with my 76mm BB On3 turbo as it's pretty lazy. I'm running around 23lbs usually right now with an Edelbrock manifold.
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post #12 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinschmidt1 View Post
I think he has a trick flow intake manifold

It really doesn't look like his power is lower than the other cams till about 6300-6400 rpms

I'll post what my setup does with stock cams vs my blower cams soon. I've got the eddy manifold, ported heads, and a billet 67 mm
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Look foward to seeing your results!

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post #13 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisR View Post
Interesting. I'd like to know what would happen if I swapped my current cams back for some stock ones, or at least smaller ones actually spec'd for a turbo setup. Mine are 234/230, .550/.500, 115LSA made for a roots blower. I'd love to drop my spool time with my 76mm BB On3 turbo as it's pretty lazy. I'm running around 23lbs usually right now with an Edelbrock manifold.
I'd say do it! Also going with a billet wheel turbo you will spool around 1000rpms faster as. Sell those cams and upgrade the turbo!

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post #14 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1KILR View Post
The stock cams are great for a lower rpm and lower boost setup. What intake was this with? I'd like to see the comparison once a larger turbo is installed and running more boost and rpm
Like Justin said, this was with a Trick flow Track Heat Intake Manifold. I had brought my boost controller and was planning on running a bit more boost. Then I saw the 652ft/lbs of torque and decided to call it quits there. I'm sure with more boost a slightly bigger cam would help ... but my cam was far from ideal for a turbo setup. I doubt I'll upgrade my cams ever though as I can easily up the boost if I want more power (which I don't at the moment) and the driveability is just like stock. It's fantastic!

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post #15 of 37 Old 08-28-2012, 08:39 PM
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My car made 572rwhp with 20psi through a C4 with stock cams and then at the same 20psi made 656rwhp with custom cams on the same dyno.
Ported pi heads and ported hardball'r intake.
My hp peaked at 6500rpm.
I wonder why yours drops after peak hp so much?

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post #16 of 37 Old 08-29-2012, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
My car made 572rwhp with 20psi through a C4 with stock cams and then at the same 20psi made 656rwhp with custom cams on the same dyno.
Ported pi heads and ported hardball'r intake.
My hp peaked at 6500rpm.
I wonder why yours drops after peak hp so much?
Nice, everyones setup is different though...you actually had turbo cams, more boost, twin turbos.

That dramatic dip might just be him letting off the gas on the dyno but still recording.

Either way, the stock cams are definitely better off than those big comp cams he had
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post #17 of 37 Old 08-30-2012, 07:13 AM
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Wonder why his same engine setup with a P1sc earlier this year had peak hp at 6500rpm.
What valve springs are in your heads.

2002 2V TF heads Custom Edelbrock NA SVT Cams
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post #18 of 37 Old 08-30-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
Wonder why his same engine setup with a P1sc earlier this year had peak hp at 6500rpm.
What valve springs are in your heads.
Probably because its a centri blower....my vortech setup with a eddy Victor manifold and stock heads and cams wanted to pull forever....I stopped revving it at 6500 for the most part cause it was a stock bottom end but it was gaining power heavily still at 6500

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post #19 of 37 Old 08-30-2012, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
My hp peaked at 6500rpm.
I wonder why yours drops after peak hp so much?
Yeah, I was surprised at the big cams dyno peaking out so early. Only thing I can think is the cams were such a bad match for the turbo that it affected its peakend too.

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post #20 of 37 Old 08-31-2012, 10:43 AM
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Noticed they have the correction factor set at 1.09%.
I think adding another wastegate would really help your setup.
Do you know what valve springs you are running.
Your stage 3 blower cams are almost the same as mmr's stage 2 turbo cams. Yours have a lsa of 114 and mmr stage 2's are 115 and the lift and duration are the same.

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post #21 of 37 Old 08-31-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
Noticed they have the correction factor set at 1.09%.
I think adding another wastegate would really help your setup.
Do you know what valve springs you are running.
Your stage 3 blower cams are almost the same as mmr's stage 2 turbo cams. Yours have a lsa of 114 and mmr stage 2's are 115 and the lift and duration are the same.
So what you're saying is stock cams are better than MMR stage 2 turbo cams? haha
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post #22 of 37 Old 08-31-2012, 11:16 AM
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maybe on a car with a small turbo and not so much boost. once the boost and rpm gets turned up your going to want the mmr cams

03 Mustang GT
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post #23 of 37 Old 08-31-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinschmidt1 View Post
So what you're saying is stock cams are better than MMR stage 2 turbo cams? haha
NO!

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post #24 of 37 Old 08-31-2012, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by y2k02 View Post
Noticed they have the correction factor set at 1.09%.
I think adding another wastegate would really help your setup.
Do you know what valve springs you are running.
Your stage 3 blower cams are almost the same as mmr's stage 2 turbo cams. Yours have a lsa of 114 and mmr stage 2's are 115 and the lift and duration are the same.
Running the upgraded TrickFlow 120lb springs. With my P1SC setup and those big cams ... power didn't start dropping until 6500RPM. When the engine was broken in on the dyno it reved to 7200RPM with a D1SC before falling off.

I'm holding on to my big cams in case I ever feel like using them again ... but the fact is ... the car runs soooooooooooooooooo much better and smoother with those stock cams. At only 13psi I'm nowhere near reaching my psi limit so if I want more power I'll turn it up. I'm not going to sacrifice my driveability again to see only marginal gains up top and significant losses down low. I put 10K miles on ... and I LOVED the lope .... but I'm just in love with how the car drives now.

y2k02 ... is the TQ or HP off on that dynosheet? I know your car aint reving to only 3,000 RPM! Haha! Also, dyno CF ... didn't ask him about ... but it was 100+ degrees in here in TX with tons of humidity. No idea where he gets the #s factor from.

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post #25 of 37 Old 08-31-2012, 04:35 PM
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Maybe its because we are running smaller turbos? No idea. I know that we both have the high seat pressure valve springs.
My car will pull hard to 7k but these blower xams make horrible power before like 4500
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post #26 of 37 Old 09-18-2012, 03:24 PM
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results are in for my cam swap, honestly was expecting a more in terms of HP numbers but I cant complain about the mid range gains.




Where its marked at 3800-3900 RPMS there is a difference of 73 rwhp and about 100 tq....huge mid range improvements.
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post #27 of 37 Old 09-18-2012, 06:16 PM
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Did you not log boost?

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post #28 of 37 Old 09-18-2012, 06:28 PM
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Did you not log boost?
I did log boost...that was more of an example to show the mid range and tq gains with similar peak power.

Those runs were both around 12-13 psi, in that range.

Heres 15 psi

and 20 psi



We coulda made more power of course but didnt mess with the tune or anything as I didnt want to hurt anything on the car so left it at that.

The 15 psi tune will be my street tune.
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post #29 of 37 Old 09-18-2012, 09:37 PM
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Ok I've been lurking on this thread for a while and I finally have a question. My motor is about to come out to swap headgaskets, so I'd like to do a cam swap in the meanwhile. If I'm maxing out at 14PSI(all I need really), is a turbo cam worth it? Or should I just switch to stockers? Thanks in advance...

97 GT/03 Cobra
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post #30 of 37 Old 09-18-2012, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chingus View Post
Ok I've been lurking on this thread for a while and I finally have a question. My motor is about to come out to swap headgaskets, so I'd like to do a cam swap in the meanwhile. If I'm maxing out at 14PSI(all I need really), is a turbo cam worth it? Or should I just switch to stockers? Thanks in advance...
4.6?

A Turbo cam is good but stock ones will do better than a na or blower cam I bet.

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post #31 of 37 Old 09-19-2012, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Your fatter mid-range looks like a pretty similar gain to mine. I did make significantly more peak HP but I'm betting it's because of the size of my previous cams. 50ft/lbs of peak TQ gain (100TQ @ 4,000RPM!!)... aint bad!

Like I said in an earlier post, even if I lost a tiny bit of peak HP, it'd be worth it for the fatter, smoother and just plain meatier powerband. Your's looks like the butt-dyno is smiling too!

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post #32 of 37 Old 09-19-2012, 10:19 AM
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Your fatter mid-range looks like a pretty similar gain to mine. I did make significantly more peak HP but I'm betting it's because of the size of my previous cams. 50ft/lbs of peak TQ gain (100TQ @ 4,000RPM!!)... aint bad!

Like I said in an earlier post, even if I lost a tiny bit of peak HP, it'd be worth it for the fatter, smoother and just plain meatier powerband. Your's looks like the butt-dyno is smiling too!

Yep, looks like about 100 tq and 80 rwhp at 4k so similar mid range gains although peak HP didnt really increase, im still extremely happy with the mid range increase.

Your cam was def. a lot wilder than me.

Im also amazed at how much power your car is making on only 13 psi lol....those heads must really be moving a lot of air.

I would think mine would make more than it did but I guess I cant complain
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post #33 of 37 Old 09-19-2012, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Youre also going through an automatic. I'm still on a 3650 so my wheel HP numbers are going to show higher than yours.

But yes ... absolutely LOVE the Trick Flow Heads. The combustion chamber design allow more timing than stock heads and I could make more with that extra timing but played it safe.

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post #34 of 37 Old 09-19-2012, 01:07 PM
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4.6?

A Turbo cam is good but stock ones will do better than a na or blower cam I bet.

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Yes indeed, 5.0L stroker shortblock but I'm not sure if that really matters...

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post #35 of 37 Old 09-19-2012, 01:56 PM
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Yes indeed, 5.0L stroker shortblock but I'm not sure if that really matters...

Was just curious if it was a mod motor...anyways I would think a turbo cam would be a good idea.

As long as the turbo cam is designed right it could potentially improve spool time and should improve power/ tq without really sacrificing any low end.

I think the issue with out cams is that they arent turbo cams at all.
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