any way to prevent headers from cracking? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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any way to prevent headers from cracking?

First off this is not gonna be an on3 bashing. I know you get what you pay for and on3 is what I could afford so hear I am.

I have had my on3 kit on3 kit on my 95 cobra for about a month and a half. I have put 3000 miles on it and was pleased with everything minus the tune and wg location. But about a week ago I noticed an exhaust leak and that power was down a little. The leak got worse so yesterday I pulled the passenger header off (was leaking around #1 cylinder). The header flange seemed to be warped so I had it straightened and while doing so I noticed a crack where the crossover pipe was welded to the collector that was about 4in long. So I welded it back and am gonna hope for the best.

My question is what could have caused this and what can be done to prevent this? Would coating help or maybe bracing the turbo? This is my daily driver so I don't want to be going through this every few thousand miles.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

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post #2 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 12:03 PM
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Poor or less than ideal quality metal and welding caused this. Not much you can do that I know of besides re-welding it and re-weld any other weak ares you can find. I think the only solution is to just save up some coin and buy a b&g or other qualit brand hot side. You can reuse everything else from the on3 kit.

Posr up some pictures if you can.

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post #3 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 12:28 PM
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Actually you can try heating the areas of the welds that are cracking to glowing and then put them in an oven and slowly lower the temp...

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post #4 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 06:28 PM
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If it does not come with a turbo mount/bracket fab one up asap. Wrapping headers can cause more stress than just coating them but that's not what your problem was/is.

Are they mild steel or 304 SS?

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post #5 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 06:30 PM
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Local guy had the same thing happen to his on3kit after about a week. What's on3 say about this?

Stock block, GT40 heads, Explorer intake, 67mm, 10lbs, 431HP 497TQ on 110 octane. 12.01 @ 123
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post #6 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 06:51 PM
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Its not only on3, that can happen to any header, poor tuning can cause this, and a heavy turbo w/o a brace will cause this too. My b&g hot side cracked, but it was small and i've had my kit for 3years.

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post #7 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93alexcoupe View Post
Its not only on3, that can happen to any header, poor tuning can cause this, and a heavy turbo w/o a brace will cause this too. My b&g hot side cracked, but it was small and i've had my kit for 3years.
Exactly, IMO every turbo needs a heady duty support brace/bracket.

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post #8 of 48 Old 07-15-2012, 07:10 PM
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Movement and vibration are the main causes. A turbo brace will only help if you are using solid motor mounts.

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post #9 of 48 Old 07-16-2012, 12:02 AM
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Movement and vibration are the main causes. A turbo brace will only help if you are using solid motor mounts.

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I've been thinking for a whole about a bracket, what about building a bracket off the alternator bracket. Then you don't have to worry about it
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post #10 of 48 Old 07-16-2012, 03:01 AM
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Interesting idea there.

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post #11 of 48 Old 07-16-2012, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies sorry I didn't take any pics I needed to get the car back on the road cause its all I have to drive. As for a tune I just have the base tune that on3 supplied its not the greatest but it works for now until I can afford a real tune. The headers are mild steel and I had also thought about making a bracket of some kind coming from the alternator. Has anyone done this? It seems to need something because the pass side header is holding a lot of weight
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post #12 of 48 Old 07-16-2012, 12:29 PM
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"You get what you pay for" there is a reason these kits are so cheap
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post #13 of 48 Old 07-16-2012, 12:30 PM
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A quality kit should not need a support bracket to hold the weight of the turbo. You on3 guys bought a cheap product and now your paying for it. Not bashing on3 but in my opinion the hotside is the most critical component of any kit.

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post #14 of 48 Old 07-17-2012, 07:08 PM
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Seems as if mine is leaking from the same spot. I barely have 600 miles on my kit I need to take the header back off but I've had the kit on and off so many times I could shoot myself. When you say it had to be straightened, what exactly did that entail? Was the flange just warped? I'm close to just getting out of the turbo game and going supercharger. I just want to be able to enjoy this thing!!! It's very frustrating. And I dont want to hear it about thats what you get. Ive heard it multiple times already and it just stings more everytime.

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post #15 of 48 Old 07-17-2012, 09:37 PM
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if you run a bracket off the motor to support the turbo, the passenger side header can still crack as it is trying to move as it heats up and the bracket wont let it.

i know ive seen a lot of the guys running big turbos (88mm+) mount the turbo to the frame or motor and have a flex joint off of each header. that way the headers can move all they want and they dont have to hold the weight of the turbo

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post #16 of 48 Old 07-18-2012, 12:39 PM
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Mine also cracked on the passengers side.

Buying an On3 kit was definitely a mistake, I will go with B&G next time.

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post #17 of 48 Old 07-18-2012, 02:28 PM
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Why don't you guys send the headers back under warranty?????

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post #18 of 48 Old 07-18-2012, 02:37 PM
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Why don't you guys send the headers back under warranty?????



Good luck with that.

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post #19 of 48 Old 07-18-2012, 09:53 PM
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Why don't you guys send the headers back under warranty?????
That is the funniest thing I have ever heard

TWIN TURBO!! Because bottles are for babies and superchargers blow
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post #20 of 48 Old 07-19-2012, 02:43 AM
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Seems like all you guys with cracked headers have the 5.0 kits, anyone have or know someone personally with a cracked 4.6 kit? They come with a bracket for the turbo.

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post #21 of 48 Old 07-20-2012, 12:03 PM
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Bad tune will cause cracking issues...My passenger side header cracked could have been due to the weight....Big deal...I own a welder and no way in hell im sending them back for warranty...

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post #22 of 48 Old 07-21-2012, 12:10 AM
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Uh, any kit will do this. I have seen Quicktime kits, B&G, and a Hellion kit do this. The turbo needs a bracket, its common sense, its a big heavy turbo hanging off a header that gets extremely hot, then cold, then hot, then cold, etc.

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post #23 of 48 Old 07-21-2012, 12:24 AM
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the tune is just a base to get you to a dyno too get a tune. maybe driving it lean could have caused the hot side to get to hot and crack..

turbo headers cracking is not much you can do about, other then not drive it. see they all will crack, its just a matter of when, and why. weather its poor quality,poor design or mechanical failure just wear and tear. it will happen.

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post #24 of 48 Old 07-21-2012, 11:27 PM
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Why don't you guys send the headers back under warranty?????
they have warranty or repaired headers many times....????? most people want all new every thing and right now, instead of sending them in etc.


this is why i hate forums these days. you see lots of stuff, hear lots of stuff, but the point gets blown way over and over... some people start hating on a company, then it spreads. then lies spread.... how many 5.0 kits have been sold? and how many complaints do we see. just like the injector thread. i found that to be a crock of ####. granted the website for on3 says one thing, but on3 said they came out with their own injectors etc. he offered to flow test them and work with him , if he sent them in. but its what ever. and after you deal with so many stupid calls and so on, yeah i can see him getting pissed in the phone call. I dont want to know how it is to sell, pack ship 30-100 turbo kits a week... and keep stuff in house, and come out with all the other kits he has going right now. screw that. there should be 5 people working there, and there is normally only 1 or 2

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post #25 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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My intention was never to bash on3 or any other company. I just wanted to know if anyone else had this issue and what their solution was. Aj94scobra just pm me and we can discuss some things it looks like we have had a lot of the same issues
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post #26 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 11:24 AM
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they have warranty or repaired headers many times....????? most people want all new every thing and right now, instead of sending them in etc.


this is why i hate forums these days. you see lots of stuff, hear lots of stuff, but the point gets blown way over and over... some people start hating on a company, then it spreads. then lies spread.... how many 5.0 kits have been sold? and how many complaints do we see. just like the injector thread. i found that to be a crock of ####. granted the website for on3 says one thing, but on3 said they came out with their own injectors etc. he offered to flow test them and work with him , if he sent them in. but its what ever. and after you deal with so many stupid calls and so on, yeah i can see him getting pissed in the phone call. I dont want to know how it is to sell, pack ship 30-100 turbo kits a week... and keep stuff in house, and come out with all the other kits he has going right now. screw that. there should be 5 people working there, and there is normally only 1 or 2
You have got to be kidding me. This is why you hate forums? What makes forums such a bad place nowadays is people like you who have no direct relationship with the injector issue whatsoever but speak like have the whole story. I still have the injectors here at my house for several reasons. The main reason being its called evidence buddy. If you would like a picture of me holding the on3 injectors with my receipt that says 350 dollar siemens deka injectors then by all means I can send it directly to your cell phone. I didn't order through Chad. I ordered with Mike and he was the one that said they were Siemens injectors as well. Not my fault, manage your business properly and this #### wouldn't have happened. It isn't our fault that he his a one man show, honestly we don't care. If he needs help he should hire people and manage them.

I apologize OP but this guy clearly has lost his mind. I am not going to let some third party attack my credibility when I put all the information out there. Even the damn phone call itself!!! Gearhead if you would like to discuss this further then by all means PM me and we can go from there. Can't believe after that long of a time, you find a way to bring it up in a non-related issue.

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post #27 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 11:24 AM
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Bad tune will cause cracking issues...My passenger side header cracked could have been due to the weight....Big deal...I own a welder and no way in hell im sending them back for warranty...
i make a bracket that bolts to the head and or alt to support the turbos on the fox and sn kits. esp the sn kits.

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post #28 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 11:36 AM
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You have got to be kidding me. This is why you hate forums? What makes forums such a bad place nowadays is people like you who have no direct relationship with the injector issue whatsoever but speak like have the whole story. I still have the injectors here at my house for several reasons. The main reason being its called evidence buddy. If you would like a picture of me holding the on3 injectors with my receipt that says 350 dollar siemens deka injectors then by all means I can send it directly to your cell phone. I didn't order through Chad. I ordered with Mike and he was the one that said they were Siemens injectors as well. Not my fault, manage your business properly and this #### wouldn't have happened. It isn't our fault that he his a one man show, honestly we don't care. If he needs help he should hire people and manage them.

I apologize OP but this guy clearly has lost his mind. I am not going to let some third party attack my credibility when I put all the information out there. Even the damn phone call itself!!! Gearhead if you would like to discuss this further then by all means PM me and we can go from there. Can't believe after that long of a time, you find a way to bring it up in a non-related issue.
Oh so your the injector guy huh? how long did you have those injectors, and knowing they were not seimens...... but you had them for how long before you put them in the engine. i mean really. you waited how long, then stuck them in the engine and had a issue. i dont care what pics you have of evidence man. its not really reliant when you receive a item in the mail, dont check and make sure every thing matchs WHEN YOU GET IT.... not 9 months to a year later. first thing i do is open stuff up and make sure #### matchs what im suppose to get... if it dont match, you best believe im calling who ever i get stuff from and getting it figured out, swapped out what have you before something as critcal as a injector blows someone engine.

and why did i bring it up, its a example.. of what......................... stupidy. on your part, and on3's. #### went across how many forums? i argued this same point on one of the threads, i think it was svt. but why wait so long to say something. instead of figuring it out after the fact? im not pming nothing. almost seems like you have something to hide in all of it if you want to hide. and if you dont want every one seeing the convo, you shouldnt have chimed in.theres your 2 cents back

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post #29 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 11:45 AM
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Oh so your the injector guy huh? how long did you have those injectors, and knowing they were not seimens...... but you had them for how long before you put them in the engine. i mean really. you waited how long, then stuck them in the engine and had a issue. i dont care what pics you have of evidence man. its not really reliant when you receive a item in the mail, dont check and make sure every thing matchs WHEN YOU GET IT.... not 9 months to a year later. first thing i do is open stuff up and make sure #### matchs what im suppose to get... if it dont match, you best believe im calling who ever i get stuff from and getting it figured out, swapped out what have you before something as critcal as a injector blows someone engine.

and why did i bring it up, its a example.. of what......................... stupidy. on your part, and on3's. #### went across how many forums? i argued this same point on one of the threads, i think it was svt. but why wait so long to say something. instead of figuring it out after the fact? im not pming nothing. almost seems like you have something to hide in all of it if you want to hide. and if you dont want every one seeing the convo, you shouldnt have chimed in.theres your 2 cents back
You clearly did not read through any of the threads. All the evidence was displayed and I'm not going to waste my time explaining the whole situation again. If you would like to make a new thread debating then this fine. I will put the entire conversation up on here. I just didn't want to clog the OP's thread with issues he is not even concerned with. Please read the first post.

BTW, Chad is the one that hasn't responded to any of the threads but he has definitely read them so who is hiding?? Please this has got to be a joke.

Also, the phone call clearly shows how amazing his customer service skills are. The guy was a ##### before I even stated the issue.

Mods please close this. This issue has already had all the facts presented and if wanted, I can bump the original thread but I figured I'd let it all go.

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post #30 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 11:48 AM
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BTW, might want to ask your buddy if he really wants to stir this up again. I am sure its great for business.

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post #31 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 02:37 PM
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BTW, might want to ask your buddy if he really wants to stir this up again. I am sure its great for business.
Ok its clear i can not have a battle of wits with you, you appear unarmed

heres why

and yet i asked you ONE simple question, (how long did you have them kicking around in your garage or car, before you noticed the mismatch of the injectors not being what you was billed) and you have yet to answer it, or have even tired to argue with the logic in that matter, because thats your mistake. no one else is to blame there. but your just going to skip by that part of it because what, it shouldnt matter huh. when that is the main issue at hand here, and i KNOW im not the first person to say some thing about it, after the fact. But its you can not accept your own fault in the matter now can you. its no wonder chad had reached his limit with you. Now if you would have opened all your stuff up to check and make sure every thing was there, and billed for what you got. then maybe none of the threads would be up right now would they?


i didnt stir #### up, i have read thru more threads then i care to honestly about it. You just dont like MY opinion of it. Hell you cant even answer my question of it. i have my own opinion of ON3 and what not. Hell i have one of Hellion too. B&G and so forth.. hell i have one for most major companys. is it going to matter? maybe, maybe not. My opinion of hating forums comes from some of the stupid #### i see posted every where. And the #### ass treatment i have got from one local forum.(when a local forums hides the shady actions of a local shop ripping off its members, lian to forums sponsors and being completely one sided as that one is, wel you best believe those who stand up about it, get pushed out removed and then #### spread to try and ruin the honest shop standing up for the people. and funny how the owner of said website publicly said he set out to try and destroy said honest shop) all because humans have free will. like my free will to think your a retard thinking you was going to get much help after how long?(the question you yet still fail to answer here).. yeah there is the reason why. do you order something off ebay, wait a year to open it and find out its packaged wrong and try to return it, its not going to be no dice cause the return policy is how long? some where between 30-90 days normally?

so you see, i see how people turn #### around and try to make someone look bad. i can do the same damn thing, i choose not to do that when the mistake could be on me for not opening the package and checking the stuff the day it hits my floor. it would just simply make me a fool to chime in when ever someone has a different opinion of it then my own.
Now i have said my opinion once again, your the one that choose's to keep it going after i brought it up, i was hoping that might NOT happen. But now you more then likely want to make a new thread so you can argue some more about it, calling me or my opinion of the matter back out about it, but honestly who would be the one looking like a fool? cause im going to be the one sitting back, reading and laughing at it all.

Now lets get back to the subject at hand here. i posted my opinion on that, and no one seems to be arguing that logic... but i shouldnt hold my breathe there should I?

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post #32 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 03:05 PM
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In my original thread I posted the times of when everything happened and why they happened that way. I have no clue where you are getting 9 months or a year from. I ordered the kit in the fall of last year. Didn't know they werent Siemens injectors till I had the car at the dyno and he had a real set to put on the car once he figured out that's what the problem was. Who would of thought a "honest" shop would advertise Siemens deka and sell their own brand instead. He never mentioned his own brand injectors until after the whole ordeal.

Yes, I probably should have called immediately but I didn't take a magnifying glass to the side of the injector to see on3 stamped approximately 1/16" on the side so how would I know without ever seeing Siemens Deka before then.

Honestly, this is stupid. We have different opinions and this could go on forever. I just don't want people who aren't involved in the situation to act like they are all knowing and dumbing down the facts of what truly happened.

Let's be clear, I have not avoided any of your questions or accusations. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

94 Rio Red Cobra, Trickflow 170s, F cam, T-moss ported lower, Fox intake swap, 3.73s

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post #33 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 03:08 PM
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I ordered I believe in the end of October, dyno in March as it took a majority of that time to receive all my parts.

Also, it's sad when each time an on3 thread is started the OP has to say this isn't going to be a bash thread. That's because there is a heavy trend of having issues. Trust me, I have learned my lesson and I will never let it happen again.

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post #34 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 03:13 PM
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how is someone completely new to the car modding scene supposed to know the difference between a real siemens injector and a chinese knockoff without having someone like a tuner (who had seen the same issue before) tell us they were wrong?

What gives you the idea that we knew they were laying around for 4 months knowing they were wrong?? We didn't know they were wrong until after being at the dyno for almost a whole day of the car not even running and the tuner telling us to check them. We didn't even know that on3 sold junk injectors, we could only go by what his own WEBSITE advertises!! Why should we have questioned him (until we had problems, obviously)??

It's clear you deal with on3 all the time....you can't believe anything anyone says!! Must be hard to deal with such a lying scumbag all the time...
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post #35 of 48 Old 07-22-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJs94cobra View Post
In my original thread I posted the times of when everything happened and why they happened that way. I have no clue where you are getting 9 months or a year from. I ordered the kit in the fall of last year. Didn't know they werent Siemens injectors till I had the car at the dyno and he had a real set to put on the car once he figured out that's what the problem was. Who would of thought a "honest" shop would advertise Siemens deka and sell their own brand instead. He never mentioned his own brand injectors until after the whole ordeal.

Yes, I probably should have called immediately but I didn't take a magnifying glass to the side of the injector to see on3 stamped approximately 1/16" on the side so how would I know without ever seeing Siemens Deka before then.

Honestly, this is stupid. We have different opinions and this could go on forever. I just don't want people who aren't involved in the situation to act like they are all knowing and dumbing down the facts of what truly happened.

Let's be clear, I have not avoided any of your questions or accusations. I have absolutely nothing to hide.
i have nothing to hide. i asked a simple question and you bounced right around it. wanting to take it private. just makes me think. now the argument to you telling me how did we know on3 sold injectors, well i KNOW its posted in a few on3 threads. its rather easy for even a complete dumbass to google what a seimens injector looks like, and compare it to the ones received. the deka injectors say the name right on them, along with the part number which once typed into google tells you sizes etc. now see, you guys want to claim dumb now that it comes out "how did we know" we you like forums for the info sharing right? i sure would be checking every thing over with a fine tooth comb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy17 View Post
how is someone completely new to the car modding scene supposed to know the difference between a real siemens injector and a chinese knockoff without having someone like a tuner (who had seen the same issue before) tell us they were wrong?

What gives you the idea that we knew they were laying around for 4 months knowing they were wrong?? We didn't know they were wrong until after being at the dyno for almost a whole day of the car not even running and the tuner telling us to check them. We didn't even know that on3 sold junk injectors, we could only go by what his own WEBSITE advertises!! Why should we have questioned him (until we had problems, obviously)??

It's clear you deal with on3 all the time....you can't believe anything anyone says!! Must be hard to deal with such a lying scumbag all the time...
and no, i have always lived by one rule, believe nothing of what you hear, and only 1/2 of what you see.
and the problem i have with internet forums, business's and so on. IS none of them take care to try to educate the customer, like my business focuses on, or said company is doing just one thing. making a product that yes works, but could be way better. But its cheap right, thats why most order it in the first place.

New to the car modding scene...then... research research research.. and then some more.

completely new to the car scene, and the first thing your doing is trying to install a turbo kit........ well that answers alot of questions then dont it


heres pic

now go to google and search for the injectors... there is a difference in the body alone. this leads me right back to research, research and then more research.. thats what being a true junky with cars does.
plenty of people here know i sell and install the on3 stuff. alone with many many other things. someone one day tired to order a kit thru me, i flat told him i dont just sell kits, i upgrade the kit, and install them only. and if i was to sell you a kit, you wouldnt like the price. precision turbos, coated, wrapped the whole nine yards is what i go with. turn it into a 3500 plus kit real fast. but any one remember the hellion thread that didnt have the bungs welded in, and had china hardware for the oiling stuff??....and was 4500? it is what it is. yes alot of the older turbos got hosed(but some didnt even had oil going to them, and had issues.. so who is that to blame, but now the same company making the turbos, is the same one that made MP's. all the hardware is good old stuff you can go down to napa and get, i personally dont like the hose used, but that me. i go an and heat sleeved and so on. yes i have seen plenty or cars do well with the kits, and i heard of alot of issues, and seen some proof that only backs up the fact people are stupid. like the road trip i made for a guy who was out of gas, started slowly installing his turbo kit over winter, bosch injectors and whole 9 yards, and blames the kit on not letting the car start. come to fin out the car was out of gas.. but yet blames that on on3 too.

so what am i to believe from any one on the net. all i am saying is i find it stupid you didnt open up the boxs and check every thing, to make sure it was what you was billed for. but then, your mess came up right about the time mike screwed up a ton of ####, and chad was cleaning up mess's left and right. hell their could be alot more going on then any of us know, but whos to say. im not agreeing with you, or ON3... im just saying the same thing over and over again. you should have opened them up and made sure it was what it said on billing. esp if you was not getting it all in one box or all at one time. i mean if you open the turbo up and find the fins in the front cold side housing all bent to hell, would you still install it(and no im not saying this has happened) but i have scene stupid people do some stupid stuff. or like the guy that dropped his turbo as he was taking it out of the box, and he broke it, tried to warranty it.. deal with a few people a day that need baby sat while doing a turbo kit etc, and it gets old after a awhile.

I am on3 dealer. message me for some killer deals
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