Ignition timing under boost - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 05-22-2012, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Ignition timing under boost

I got an 87 mustang with a 70mm turn....engine is stock except for fuel system mods and head studs. I have a series 4 pms with 3 bar map. Im running 10 psi but want to run 16. I just wondering what everyone is running.

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post #2 of 13 Old 05-22-2012, 04:48 PM
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It all comes down to your tune, but I would keep the total timing under 17 and creep up a little at a time while watching your AFR with a wideband


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post #3 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 09:04 AM
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16psi will send a rod though the block.

Your not gonna make a ton of power on 16 vs 10, due to your running the stock motor. Changing the heads/intake will yield more power then adding 6psi.

On the timing aspect, you want to follow the tq curve. But a general idea is start high (15-16 degree's) then level it out as you near redline. This is how my car is setup and it seem's to love it.

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post #4 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ManicMike View Post
16psi will send a rod though the block.

Your not gonna make a ton of power on 16 vs 10, due to your running the stock motor. Changing the heads/intake will yield more power then adding 6psi.

On the timing aspect, you want to follow the tq curve. But a general idea is start high (15-16 degree's) then level it out as you near redline. This is how my car is setup and it seem's to love it.
How do you have the timing under boost?

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post #5 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by stangjumper View Post
How do you have the timing under boost?
Idle is around 15-16 degree's and light to no load is around 28-29. Then once boost comes on I peak it around 16 degree's then by 6000rpm under full load it's about 14 degree's.

It's still not perfect (since I haven't gotten on the dyno yet) but the car drive's and pulls great as it is. I'm still fine tuning it though.

'88 LX -New mill coming soon.
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-23-2012, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ManicMike View Post
Idle is around 15-16 degree's and light to no load is around 28-29. Then once boost comes on I peak it around 16 degree's then by 6000rpm under full load it's about 14 degree's.

It's still not perfect (since I haven't gotten on the dyno yet) but the car drive's and pulls great as it is. I'm still fine tuning it though.
What heads are you running?

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post #7 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Dont really feel like putting heads and intake on this motor. Gonna build a nice (probably stroked ) combination with an aftermarket block. But for now I just wanna have fun....im @ 15* under peak boost now.
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManicMike View Post
Idle is around 15-16 degree's and light to no load is around 28-29. Then once boost comes on I peak it around 16 degree's then by 6000rpm under full load it's about 14 degree's.

It's still not perfect (since I haven't gotten on the dyno yet) but the car drive's and pulls great as it is. I'm still fine tuning it though.
Without knowing your combo I would try running mid 30's timing in P/T (cruise) load/rpm. The factory actually ran low to mid 40's there (with an EGR valve).

Your timing should not keep ramping down as rpm climbs to redline. At peak torque (max cylinder pressure) is where the timing should be the lowest. Your timing curve should look like a smiley face. Higher before peak torque, lowest at peak torque, than start adding timing back after peak torque.

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Old combo:352 single 76mm turbo, 16psi, AOD, 9.41 @ 149mph, E85, 255/50/16 MT DR, 3500lb STREET car driven everywhere.
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 08:04 PM
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Dont really feel like putting heads and intake on this motor. Gonna build a nice (probably stroked ) combination with an aftermarket block. But for now I just wanna have fun....im @ 15* under peak boost now.
That question was for manicmike. I wouldn't want you to run the same timing he is if he is also running aluminum heads. I run aluminum heads and am running 24 deg timing under boost. You won't get away with that much timing with stock iron heads.

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post #10 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fmyth View Post
What heads are you running?
GT-40's.

I have my old dyno graph somewhere. Pretty sure peak tq was around 4500rpm, so I think I'll try doing the full throttle timing like you say and see how it reacts.


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Last edited by ManicMike; 05-24-2012 at 10:40 PM.
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 10:42 PM
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I'm running 22* until 2 psi then I back it off a degree every 500 rpm and at 6000 I'm at 18* with 12psi. Car loves it at least it seems to. I had to adjust my recovery a little though cause it kept leaning out when I floored it and would stay a little lean for 300-500 rpm before it would drop down and be where I needed it to be. I also added 2 degrees of timing so the transition was smoother. I still have a part throttle hesitation on the hiway in 5th when I roll into the throttle it bucks and jerks for a second and is super lean I tried changing the LL an ML tables but I can't seem to get this part of it figured out.

I'm not a magazine racer, my car is actually fast.
I also have a Honda civic but, mine has a bigger, uglier driver.
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-24-2012, 11:01 PM
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It would be great if you guys can post actual timing maps.

I'm going to do that in the next week as we make some part throttle driveability changes to get my car to run cooler when driving.

I can't really help with this specific question because I run C16 and ~25 psi but I think we all can benefit from perfecting the lower area of the timing map.

On dyno's tuners concentrate on WOT safety and not as much on the other areas of the map.

The changes I'm going to make are
-under 1500 around 20
-1500-4200 under 2 psi scaled between 36 and 40
-Not touch my under load timing which was tuned on the dyno and iirc is in the mid 20's for the settings above

The PMS is an odd device to try to take screenshots of but even if you can post up what works the best it would help.

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post #13 of 13 Old 05-26-2012, 03:45 PM
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Once I get the interacq software i'll post up some screen shots of the dashboard on that. Plus when you use the handheld for inputs, from my understanding it uses the overlay of info from the handheld to the Kam in the pms which doesn't change the base map of the pms. If you do use the interacq software you actually progam the ecu for the pms much like you would with megasquirt or aem. It is supposed to make the pms more user controllable because you can change all the parameters in smaller incriments so it makes it more responsive. If I understood Doug correctly.

I'm not a magazine racer, my car is actually fast.
I also have a Honda civic but, mine has a bigger, uglier driver.
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