No boost after on3 install! modded upper/lower intake..vaccum line issues. Help pls!! - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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No boost after on3 install! modded upper/lower intake..vaccum line issues. Help pls!!

Finished install on my on3 kit for the 02 stang. Running a victor jr lower intake and accufab upper intake. Obviously the vaccum lines are now not the same as a stock setup.. The turbo is spinning but no boost is shown on the gauge. It has vaccum..but no boost. Plus the wastegate/BOV are not functioning properly. HERE IS HOW I HAVE THE LINES EOUTED: the one port on the back of the upper plenum has a big line hooked on it. Off of that there are two smaller hookups. One of those has a vaccum line that goes straight to the waxtegate..the other one has a T-fitfing..which has one line to the BOV and anothed to the boost gauge. So all my vaccum lines are connected to that ons podt in the back.. Is that right?????? The one port on the front is not being used. Running the check valve where it was but the ond beside it is now vacant. Does that vacant one just need plugged? Help pls..this is all new to me!

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post #2 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 02:57 PM
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SOunds like your BOV is not getting vacuum; I would check the hose going to it and make sure you can feel vacuum while the engine is running, sice vacuum is what keeps the BOV closed.

Second I would use a boost/vacuum source as close to the turbo as possible for the watsegate; this mainatains an accurate reference.


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post #3 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 04:49 PM
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The wastegate should never see vaccum, only boost. Tap it right off the turbo housing

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post #4 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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BOV is functioning ok. at idle its open..hit tge gas it closes shut. the turbo is spooling..i can.see it turning when I take the filter off. I checked the wastegate when the car was at idle..and with higher rpms. in neither circumstance sas therd exhaust coming out of if. There is a vaccum line running to the wastegate..but if sees no vaccum?? Seems like the wastegate just isnt functioning properly. So if the turbo is spinning doesnt that mean that bkost is being made? How would I tap it directly to the turbo housing? And what purpose would that serve
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post #5 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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BTW.. When I rev the engine up and let off of it there is no psshhh. Two things. One: no boost is being made.. Two: boost is there but not being released thru the wastegate. Maybe the wastegate is stuck!
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post #6 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 05:56 PM
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Might want to find someone local who has experience and can help you out. Just because the turbo is spinning doesn't mean your making boost

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post #7 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 06:10 PM
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have you tried driving it at all to see if it makes any boost? usually if you rev in neutral you have to spin it pretty good to get any boost and its not much

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post #8 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 06:17 PM
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You will not see boost unless you drive it. There needs to be a descent load for it to build boost. I went through same thing. Even on jack stands nothing. Hit the street wamm, sideways she went making 6-8 psi on smallest spring.

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post #9 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 06:37 PM
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Bov should be shut at idle or you need a stronger spring/shim.

Like mentioned you wont see any boost revving at idle.

If you have an open port on a avc block then you need to plug it or you have a huge vac/boost leak.

You don't seem to understand exactly how the system wastegate functions so I would
do some research on the matter. If the wastegate was stuck shut you would make lots of boost lol.

Bov and gauge to a manifold vac/pressure source.

Wastgate top port open and side port to a pressure only source. ie turbo housing or piping just
downstream of the turbo.

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Last edited by lightblade; 05-21-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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post #10 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I thought bout the fact that boost wouldnt register without a load on the engine. And yes..this is my first turbo install so pardon my rookie questions! let me get this straight.. The BOV should be closed at idle and open at throttle? Cuz right now its the opposite.. And I should run my line from the side port of the wastegate to tne pipe that attaches to the rurbo..and NOT to the upper intake port??

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post #11 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 09:49 PM
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pics might help some

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post #12 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 09:52 PM
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The blow off valve will be OPEN at IDLE and CLOSED while in BOOST. Think of the BOV as a vacuum actuator it sucks open and blows shut.

The wastegate has a spring inside it that keeps is shut at all time with pressure. Once the system begins to build boost at some point the turbo will create more boost or pressure than the spring does. At this point, the pressure from the turbo is greater than the pressure from the spring thereby opening the valve at the wastegate. When this happens, the exhaust gases used to spin the turbo and create boost are re-routed so as to not continue spinning the turbo faster but keeping it at a constant speed. The wastegate will remain shut until the desired level of boost is achieved then it opens. You WILL NOTICE THIS.

Please keep in mind that you have to put a load on the turbo to make it spool. It will not make any boost without driving the car. You might notice a whoosh of air from the bov if you rev it up high enough but, where's the fun in that? Drive the car but for the love of god be careful it will be a lot faster now.

I'm not a magazine racer, my car is actually fast.
I also have a Honda civic but, mine has a bigger, uglier driver.
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post #13 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 10:34 PM
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Do you have the vac tube hooked to the side of the waste gate or the top?
It should be on the side port

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post #14 of 34 Old 05-21-2012, 11:53 PM
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post some pics my friend

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post #15 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasty92lx View Post
The blow off valve will be OPEN at IDLE and CLOSED while in BOOST. Think of the BOV as a vacuum actuator it sucks open and blows shut.
WRONG THAT IS A DIVERTER VALVE FOR S/C CARS AND THEY NORMALY SEND THAT AIR BACK IN FRONT OF THE MAF!!! YOU DONT HEAR TURBO CARS RUNNING AROUND WITH OPEN BOV

BOV only open when a rapid change happens in the vacum! this is why they stay shut all the time then when going from boost to vacum they open

and call ON3 THEY WILL VERIFY THIS ^^

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post #16 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 10:51 AM
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hmmm,
mine stays open at idle and closes under boost also.






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Originally Posted by g3mustang View Post
WRONG THAT IS A DIVERTER VALVE FOR S/C CARS AND THEY NORMALY SEND THAT AIR BACK IN FRONT OF THE MAF!!! YOU DONT HEAR TURBO CARS RUNNING AROUND WITH OPEN BOV

BOV only open when a rapid change happens in the vacum! this is why they stay shut all the time then when going from boost to vacum they open

and call ON3 THEY WILL VERIFY THIS ^^
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post #17 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 10:52 AM
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If you have all the couplings tight and have no leaks then either your waste gate or blow off valve is open. Verify the vacuum source and make sure they are connected in the correct place on the wg. I have one vac line from the manifold going to a t and then out to the bov and wg.

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post #18 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 12:27 PM
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hmmm,
mine stays open at idle and closes under boost also.
Mine too. Slightly open at idle. Closes as soon as the RPM climbs above idle, and then opens again when you let off the throttle.

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post #19 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 12:51 PM
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Mine too. Slightly open at idle. Closes as soon as the RPM climbs above idle, and then opens again when you let off the throttle.
same as mine

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post #20 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 01:29 PM
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I don't have a turbo yet, (soon I hope!!!) but from reading about it... vacuum is what causes the BOV to open. When the car is on idle, the throttle body blade is closed and the running engine pulling against the closed TB creates vacuum. The BOV should be open, even if partially. Raise RPM, TB opens, vacuum drops off, BOV closes. Lift off throttle, TB closes, engine creates vacuum again and BOV opens to blow off pressure in order to keep from damaging turbo... Somebody speak up if this is incorrect, please.
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post #21 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 01:44 PM
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you are referring to a diverter valve

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post #22 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 01:55 PM
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I always thought a bov was basically an open dump diverted valve...should be open at idle and close when in boost and come open when u let off the throttle and go onto vacuun
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post #23 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
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you are referring to a diverter valve
Umm, no. I'm referring to a BOV, which is actuated the same as a diverter(with vacuum), only a BOV vents to atmosphere, and a diverter loops it back into the inlet ahead of the blower..

READ: Blowoff valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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post #24 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 02:13 PM
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Mine is open until it sees no vac then it closes. Same as it was set up on my blow through set up with a sc

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post #25 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93lxreef View Post
Umm, no. I'm referring to a BOV, which is actuated the same as a diverter(with vacuum), only a BOV vents to atmosphere, and a diverter loops it back into the inlet ahead of the blower..

READ: Blowoff valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sorry but bov should be closed during idle thats why tial sells diferent springs for higher vacum


READ

BOV

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post #26 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 03:24 PM
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sorry but bov should be closed during idle thats why tial sells diferent springs for higher vacum


READ

BOV
According to TiAL, the frozenboost thread is inaccurrate, including the valve being open.

Check this out.

You can look here Getting to know your TiAL BOV

or just read here..


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Thread: Getting to know your TiAL BOV



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11-25-2009, 12:23 PM#1




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Getting to know your TiAL BOV



First some commonly over looked facts about the unit:
- the spring ratings have nothing to do with boost
- the bov is a pull type valve - the vacuum sucks open the valve (which is why we have different spring settings for different vacuum levels)
- you need to put a washer on each side of the air fitting, they come with both on the inside so they don't fall out
- we have a -3psi spring for superchargers

the valve can be open or closed at idle depending on your air meter setup:
- if you are metering air BEFORE the BOV you will need to have the BOV shut at idle, unmetered air will be EXITING the bov and cause a rich condition because less air is entering the engine than previously recorded by the MAF sensor
- If you are metering air AFTER the bov it does not matter one way or another if the valve is open or closed at idle, since the air exiting the bov is before the air meter on the car you are going to get a correct mix of air fuel. - if your air metering system is like this i would suggest a step lighter spring than the car is rated for, that will ensure you lightning quick response.

Is vacuum line size important?
Hell yes it is, if the line size is too small you will be restricting flow, which could cause problems. I've seen a LOT of evo owners get the required 1/4" ID line and attach it to the very small very restrictive connector right by the valve cover. the proper way to run the BOV is this: 1/4" ID reinforced line (brake line from autozone...it's cheap) running from the BOV ALL THE WAY to the intake manifold with NOTHING ELSE T'd into that line.

How do i know which spring i have?
It's on the box the unit came in

But i bought it used!
give me the SN on the top of the unit and I'll look it up

I hear you offer free bov spring swaps if my vacuum changes
Yes this is true, requirements are you must provide a picture of your unit and the SN from the top...some bozo's have tried to send us knockoff springs - we aren't stupid here guys, i can smell a fake from a mile away. you pay shipping, i turn the springs around the same day they come in
you must also include a note in the box with all of your contact info and what we are doing i deal with about 50-60 turbos/gates/bov's a week, when i open your box i need to know exactly what needs to be done, and will not ship back to the UPS store or the like.

Last edited by TiAL; 11-25-2009 at
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post #27 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 03:35 PM
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so in the end im sorry i said you were wrong!!!!! But I was also right! it just depends on your specific set-up

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post #28 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Well fellas..put the car on the road and let me say..it def is boosting! Everything is functioning properly as of now. Thanks for all the help!!! Still gonna upgrade wastegates tho to a tial.
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post #29 of 34 Old 05-22-2012, 11:00 PM
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so in the end im sorry i said you were wrong!!!!! But I was also right! it just depends on your specific set-up
Hey, no worries man. I wasn't trying to be a ****, just trying to help.

It's hard to get straight info with so many people on forums out there throwing out incorrect info like it's the gospel. Sometimes going straight to the source is the best bet. Peace!
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post #30 of 34 Old 05-23-2012, 09:59 AM
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For a turbo car you want the spring in the bov to be just a tad stronger than vacuum at idle to keep the bov closed. The turbo doesn't move alot of air at idle to effect anything like a supercharger does where you need a really week spring and bov wide open since the blower moves alot more air at idle. Regardless if you are drawthru or blowthru for optimal perfromance you want the bov just barely closed at idle. Sure you can get away with it open with blow thru (which I am) but there's no benefit. I want all the air i can get going to the engine to promotoe spool down low, there just no reason to have it open. If your bov is wide open at idle you need a stronger spring, or if its like halfway open or just barely open you can shim the spring with a washer to make the spring just a tad stronger. You dont want the spring too strong as well. so to verify proper operation, start the car and let it warm idle. The bov should be closed (this is for tial and tial style bov's) but if you reach in and barely push up on the valve in the center it will open easily. This lets you know your spring is just barely stronger than idle vac to keep the bov shut at idle, this way it only opens when you want it to, after letting off the throttle in boost and will ensure it opens quickly and easily. Now, same warm idle have someone in the car and get under and watch the valve, again it should be shut. Now have some one rev the car up quickly and let off. The bov should snap open then shut again. If it doesn't snap open quikcly with a high rev at idle the spring is too strong. Also some bov's have an adjustment screw on top to change the spring pressure to set it up specificly to your cars vac at idle for optimal operation. If not, you can change springs sizes for a big change or use a washer shim/ for little changes. Alright I think thats it. lol

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Last edited by lightblade; 05-23-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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post #31 of 34 Old 05-23-2012, 07:50 PM
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HEY G3 buy me a ####in tial then. until then keep your ####in mouth shut. This is about the cheap on3 bov which has NO spring options.

I'm not a magazine racer, my car is actually fast.
I also have a Honda civic but, mine has a bigger, uglier driver.
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post #32 of 34 Old 05-23-2012, 08:01 PM
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relax cyber tough guy

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post #33 of 34 Old 05-23-2012, 08:09 PM
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Oh i'm sorry for that little outburst I guess. Not a cyber tough guy actually that's the first post i've ever gone off on anyone in. I guess the real topic here is will the bov open at idle if the vacuum overcomes spring pressure. Yes it will. Mine does regularly. I don't mind a little unfiltered air. Plus if I could afford a better kit with better parts, I wouldn't have an On3 kit. I've read that article before and actually found it to be pretty informative. Downside is i couldn't tell you a tial from a fake. So sorry all for droppin the f bombs.

I'm not a magazine racer, my car is actually fast.
I also have a Honda civic but, mine has a bigger, uglier driver.
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post #34 of 34 Old 05-26-2012, 04:14 PM
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HEY G3 buy me a ####in tial then. until then keep your ####in mouth shut. This is about the cheap on3 bov which has NO spring options.

Fyi the Tial 50mm springs will work in the on 3 bov.
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