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post #1 of 21 Old 07-13-2011, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Big turbo guru's & stand alone knowledge

Conflicting info regarding stand alones and when needed, please feel free to comment.

Basically I'm trying to do a quick budget build -357ci windsor, victor heads,83# injectors, single plain efi with wilson elbow, pt88. Now my last car was a 363ci 8.2 motor with a 88mm and I ran an AEM stand alone that became a huge PIA, I'd like to run speed density for turbo application but can I get away with a piggy back Anderson PMS? Or will I need to go BS3,XFI, etc.

Thanks Jason

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post #2 of 21 Old 07-13-2011, 02:36 PM
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Dont let your AEM experince keep you from trying other systems. AEM has flaws, this is well known. The short answer is yes a PMS/Quarter horse will work. Are you better off going with a XFI/BS3, that really depends on how far you want to take the car.

There is another option....if you dare venture over to the dark side....


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post #3 of 21 Old 07-13-2011, 02:39 PM
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I think you will like the flexibility and options of a stand alone system. MAF sensors are hard to get accurate with the larger injectors. So the speed density would be a big help.

Talk to who ever is tuning the car. See what they prefer. They need to be comfortable and familiar with the system.

Many tuners have been able to make stock ECU set ups work. But I am sure they would prefer a stand alone over a chip or a piggy back like the PMS.

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post #4 of 21 Old 07-13-2011, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88mmNotch View Post
Dont let your AEM experince keep you from trying other systems. AEM has flaws, this is well known. The short answer is yes a PMS/Quarter horse will work. Are you better off going with a XFI/BS3, that really depends on how far you want to take the car.

There is another option....if you dare venture over to the dark side....
Well it's a stock 70 block car so I'm not look to go real far, 99.9% street, only looking to make 700-800 at the back tires. Maybe i will look into BS3 he is local to me and probably better tech support, I was kinda hoping to run a PMS and get away with it
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-13-2011, 04:30 PM
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our tuner here told me he could make 7-800 work with the factory EFI and a Mass air meter... But i went Back to the dark side with a Carb!!!

89 Hatch 6.65 @ 106...
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
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our tuner here told me he could make 7-800 work with the factory EFI and a Mass air meter... But i went Back to the dark side with a Carb!!!
Never ran a turbo carb set up, pro/cons?
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 09:47 AM
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The pro's of a carb set up pretty much boil down to simplicity of tuning and cost, and probably the most important....cool factor lol

The cons are having to listen to people tell you it wont work, you cant go fast, you have to run rich all the time, no control of the motor bla bla bla.

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post #8 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 11:44 AM
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My tuner said he would tune my combo but was not realm comfortable doing it. On the fox electronics the processor speed of the ecu can not keep up with whats going on with the engine. He said there are areas where you have to guess on some values to comp the slow comp. My thought was originally to just use what I have but rather than risk anything or leave a TON of power on the table I went with a fast system. Looking back I should have gone blow thru but the fast is a awesome setup it's just the learning curve is steep!

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post #9 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm gonna try and go with a PMS piggy back, blow through or maf - keep it simple for now, summer is almost over
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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cesna who is your tuner? Just wondering because my turbo notch now lives in the Jackson area and was tune by Paul's, on C16 it made more power than I ever dreamed

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post #11 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 01:42 PM
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paul did my original tune when i was running my mp70 and stock block. theirs some issues going on at their shop right now so im keeping my distance. i was gonna have lidio at alternative perf tune the new combo but he was real leary. thats the reason for the fast system. i just got my startup tune last night so well see what happens. ive never seen your car in the sig, is that the one your talking about. not many turbo guys around here yet that i know of.

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post #12 of 21 Old 07-14-2011, 05:10 PM
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i would check with who ever your going to have tune the car and see what they like, then buy that system and have them tune it and teach you how to work it..

89 Hatch 6.65 @ 106...
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-17-2011, 08:40 AM
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I have becomel "ok" with my Gen 7, adjusting timing to control launch, adjusting VE based on time of year and current conditions, playing with a lot of the aux functions etc.

I don't think I would build a car without a standalone again.

Now, I am not necessarily a cheerleader of the Gen 7. The software is pretty bad (coming from a guy that works in the software industry). It has dead ends, inconsistancies across screens etc.

When you are done with doing a PMS correctly with a datalogger and wideband you are in a similar cost area to a stand alone.

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post #14 of 21 Old 07-17-2011, 12:17 PM
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I'm very pleased with BS3, but as stated I would see what your tuner is comfy with.

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post #15 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 03:36 PM
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Problem with the Gen 7 is in that it doesnt have enough coil outputs to run a wasted spark without an external box. That is a lot of engineering and time to custom fab a harness and not have the ability to run a better ignition setup.

What sort of problems did you have with the AEM? Seems that most of the issues they have worked out with the exception of poor hall effect sync issues caused by crappy distributors.

I think one of the cheapest ways to get a standalone would be using a 1400/1401 AEM box.

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post #16 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
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Problem with the Gen 7 is in that it doesnt have enough coil outputs to run a wasted spark without an external box. That is a lot of engineering and time to custom fab a harness and not have the ability to run a better ignition setup.

What sort of problems did you have with the AEM? Seems that most of the issues they have worked out with the exception of poor hall effect sync issues caused by crappy distributors.

I think one of the cheapest ways to get a standalone would be using a 1400/1401 AEM box.
Wasted spark?

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post #17 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 08:22 PM
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I've got a set of 83lb injectors if you havent already got some.
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post #18 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by smooth6925 View Post
cesna who is your tuner? Just wondering because my turbo notch now lives in the Jackson area and was tune by Paul's, on C16 it made more power than I ever dreamed
I know that car...I know it well

I was more surprised by the pump gas tune!!
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post #19 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cesna150 View Post
paul did my original tune when i was running my mp70 and stock block. theirs some issues going on at their shop right now so im keeping my distance.
I dont know what you heard, but there is nothing going on there to be alarmed about. I would have them tune my car in a minute if I could get in.
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 10:10 PM
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Jay, megasquirt appears to be a great working entry level unit that is value priced. I dont have any first hand experience with it but I know there are quite a few guys here that swear by it.
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post #21 of 21 Old 07-21-2011, 10:11 PM
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Wasted spark?
Wasted spark is a form of ignition strategy I guess you'd say. Typically 2 plugs fire at once, one cylinder is on combustion, the other is simply wasted. It's used often when running LS coils on a Windsor engine or at least I see lots of people running in wasted spark with C.O.P.

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2012 STI - Cobb stage 1 tune daily driver
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