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post #1 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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351+ turbo

I'm planning to turbo my 408w. Looking at the PT88 kit from B&G...

I'm told I should be able to make around 700rwhp with 15lbs boost...what kind of rwtq will I make at the lower RPM's? I'm a little concerned about turbo lag. This is a street / strip car.

What rear gear do you recommend?

Thanks,
Jim


93 Red LX Hatch: presently under construction...fully forged & internally balanced NA 408ci built by FordStrokers, 10.5:1 CR, TFS 205cc heads, Super Vic intake converted to EFI, custom ground hydraulic roller cam, stock rear with 3.73 gears, Tremec 3550 - 5 speed -
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post #2 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 12:49 PM
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Turbo lag on a 408 with a PT88?? lol lag wont be your problem, choking your motor will be the problem. 408 cubes is a lot, you are going to need to step up to a T6 turbo, like a S480. Brian will set you up with the proper set up.


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post #3 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 01:28 PM
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I'm about to put a Precision gt4708 (80mm) with a T4 .96 AR. It's actually a T5 hotside they call it. Same size as a T6 but with a T4 size where it bolts up to the manifold. I'm putting this on a brand new 408 I have with AFR 205's, Victor 5.8 efi. I'll let you know how it works out, my buddy who builds 3000+ hp turbo cars said I shouldn't have any issues with this turbo on my 408 so we will see.

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post #4 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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low end power?

So...what kind of rwtq will I make at 2k rpms? 2500 rpms?

Brian at B & G advised that I'll need run 3.55 or even 3.27 rear gears...I want to make sure that the turbo makes up for this gear change & then some!

My hope is this set up will spring to life just off idle & pull like a freight train to 6k or 6500 rpms!

Will the pt88 & a well built 408 stroker do this for me?

Thanks,
Jim

93 Red LX Hatch: presently under construction...fully forged & internally balanced NA 408ci built by FordStrokers, 10.5:1 CR, TFS 205cc heads, Super Vic intake converted to EFI, custom ground hydraulic roller cam, stock rear with 3.73 gears, Tremec 3550 - 5 speed -
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post #5 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 03:16 PM
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Curious about what clutch you are going to use?

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post #6 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 03:32 PM
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Curious about what clutch you are going to use?
Or how soon he's going to ditch the 3550. I have a TKO600 in mine and I'm even leary about that. I'm expecting to make close to 700rwhp on 10psi

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post #7 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 04:33 PM
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Mine spool at around 3000. "Lag" is not a problem

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post #8 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 07:34 PM
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Wow your in for a surprise. Traction is going to be the issue not turbo lag. Have fun.

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post #9 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo135 View Post
I'm planning to turbo my 408w. Looking at the PT88 kit from B&G...

I'm told I should be able to make around 700rwhp with 15lbs boost...what kind of rwtq will I make at the lower RPM's? I'm a little concerned about turbo lag. This is a street / strip car.

What rear gear do you recommend?

Thanks,
Jim


Am I the only knw who thinks 700 is a little low for 15lbs through a 408? Seems it would make more. Definitely a bit much for the street.

Stock block, GT40 heads, Explorer intake, 67mm, 10lbs, 431HP 497TQ on 110 octane. 12.01 @ 123
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post #10 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 09:21 PM
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You should crush 700rw with a 408 and a 88mm on 15psi


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post #11 of 49 Old 06-23-2011, 11:55 PM
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At least your hp goal is low, as If it only made 700rwhp with a 408, they are something very wrong. You should easily be over 800 to the wheels. saying is 15lbs will double your n/a hp. I'm running a bone stock 351 and looking to make 450rwhp or more If i decide to live on the edge. good luck
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post #12 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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turbo questions

This project is in the planning/saving $/data gatherimg stage at this point...

Clutch: I have a newly installed Ram clutch...I think it's rated at 700 hp but I could be wrong. I'll upgrade if needed.

Tranny: I realize the Tremec 3550 will not get the job done. The Tremec "Viper" tranny was recommended. I'm told I can get this tranny with a lower 1st gear (numerically higher) & this should help build rpms quicker do to the rear gear change of 3.37 or 3.55's...ANYONE HAVE COMMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS ABOUT THIS PIECE OF THE PUZZLE?

Power Delivery: I have a stock 1974 351w block. The internals are all forged & balanced but Woody at FordStrokers.com recommended I limit my rwhp to 700...perhaps I'll only need 10'ish psi? What I'm really curious about is the rwtq at LOW rpms...like 2000 & 2500??? Right now I make 361 rwtq at 2350 rpms, 404 rwtq at 4600 rpms & 408 rwhp at 5650 rpms (This is on a Mustang Dyno...I've been told the Dynoject reads about 12% higher than the Mustang Dyno)

I'm hoping that with the right turbo set up instead of making 361 rwtq at 2350, I'll be in the 500 rwtq at that rpm...is this possible??? If not then what is your guess at rwtq at 2350 rpms with the right turbo setup???

Can someone post thier dyno graph with thier 351+ cubic inch turbo build!!??

Thanks,
Jim

93 Red LX Hatch: presently under construction...fully forged & internally balanced NA 408ci built by FordStrokers, 10.5:1 CR, TFS 205cc heads, Super Vic intake converted to EFI, custom ground hydraulic roller cam, stock rear with 3.73 gears, Tremec 3550 - 5 speed -
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post #13 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LS1_ETR View Post
I'm about to put a Precision gt4708 (80mm) with a T4 .96 AR. It's actually a T5 hotside they call it. Same size as a T6 but with a T4 size where it bolts up to the manifold. I'm putting this on a brand new 408 I have with AFR 205's, Victor 5.8 efi. I'll let you know how it works out, my buddy who builds 3000+ hp turbo cars said I shouldn't have any issues with this turbo on my 408 so we will see.
Ive never seen one of these turbos so I have no comment, but do keep us posted on your results. Im interested to see how it works out for you.

The PT88 is a true T4 exhaust housing, and that will be very small on a big 408. Im sure his car would boost almost instantly and then fall on its face near 5000. Back preassure is going to be an issue.

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post #14 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 01:16 PM
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Ive never seen one of these turbos so I have no comment, but do keep us posted on your results. Im interested to see how it works out for you.

The PT88 is a true T4 exhaust housing, and that will be very small on a big 408. Im sure his car would boost almost instantly and then fall on its face near 5000. Back preassure is going to be an issue.

Yeah I'm hoping to have the whole setup in the car and running by late July or early August. If it doesn't even up working out then I'll sell it and go to an 88 with a T6 flange and just cut and weld a T6 flange on to my on3 kit. But I think this setup I'm going with should work out but only time will tell.

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post #15 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 04:06 PM
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This was my 393 at 13psi

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post #16 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 04:46 PM
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This was my 393 at 13psi
Stock roller block?

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post #17 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 06:54 PM
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D9 block, Scat I-beam let loose and trashed the whole thing

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post #18 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 07:16 PM
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D9 block, Scat I-beam let loose and trashed the whole thing
Is that a 70's block? I'm using a block out of a lightning. I'm just going to leave it at like 10 pounds and see what it makes.

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post #19 of 49 Old 06-24-2011, 10:48 PM
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I have a b&g kit with a pt88/47 turbo, which is good for another 200 hp over a pt88.

There are a lot if variables besides cubic inches. Make sure you go through all if the details with Brian. He will give you the right guidance.

I am making 1000 rwhp with a t4 based 88 and B&G kit. Everybody talks about the necessity of a t6 flange but I have not yet had a backpressure problem on this setup. My more pressing issue is pressure drop through intercooler.

Traction, yes.

You don't want instantaneous spool on a high powered street car, makes it harder to drive.

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post #20 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 09:11 AM
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I have a b&g kit with a pt88/47 turbo, which is good for another 200 hp over a pt88.

There are a lot if variables besides cubic inches. Make sure you go through all if the details with Brian. He will give you the right guidance.

I am making 1000 rwhp with a t4 based 88 and B&G kit. Everybody talks about the necessity of a t6 flange but I have not yet had a backpressure problem on this setup. My more pressing issue is pressure drop through intercooler.

Traction, yes.

You don't want instantaneous spool on a high powered street car, makes it harder to drive.
How big is your motor? Big inch Windsor?

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post #21 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 12:39 PM
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It says 347 in his sig? Thats why back pressure isn't an issue.

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post #22 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 01:01 PM
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Backpressure is a function of volume of exhaust. Cubic inches are one variable of many (compression, cam, heads, intake, engine rpm etc) I have a very aggressive 347. A mild 408 could move a similar amount of air.

You also have to worry about how the headers y into the turbo and how the diameter of that transition.

If you are talking to Brian at B&G, he is the expert on this stuff, he won't steer you in the wrong direction.

If you need bigger then an 88 then you are in a different type of kit and piping arrangement. The pt88 and pt8847 are the largest in that size package, but are quite a bit heavier then the smaller conventional t4 turbos.

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post #23 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 02:02 PM
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Backpressure is a function of volume of exhaust. Cubic inches are one variable of many (compression, cam, heads, intake, engine rpm etc) I have a very aggressive 347. A mild 408 could move a similar amount of air.

You also have to worry about how the headers y into the turbo and how the diameter of that transition.

If you are talking to Brian at B&G, he is the expert on this stuff, he won't steer you in the wrong direction.

If you need bigger then an 88 then you are in a different type of kit and piping arrangement. The pt88 and pt8847 are the largest in that size package, but are quite a bit heavier then the smaller conventional t4 turbos.
What size is the hotside on your setup? And it's considered a T5 hotside right? Because I just bought a gt4708 which is the 80mm version of the gt47 and the classify it as a T5 hotside which basically to me looks to be the same physical size as a T6 hotside but with a T4 flange

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post #24 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 03:05 PM
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A GT4708 appears to be a T6 flanged turbo when I look it up.

I don't know much about T5 flanges but they appear in a bunch of places as being interchangeable or close to interchangeable with T6 flanges.

T6 turbos are physically much larger then the T4 based turbos. The PT88 and PT8847 are both larger then conventional T4 turbos, but still are much smaller then the T6 guys. With modification to both the hot and cold side, they will generally fit where a smaller T4 based turbo was. They are longer and larger in diameter.

Most street turbo kits neck down the hotside to 2.5 inches into the T4 flange, which both fits comfortably on a normal machined T4 flange, but also tends to build exhaust velocity because it is "necking down" making the car spool faster. With a larger motor and turbo this reaches a point of diminishing returns and becomes an obstruction.

I don't want to share all of the secrets of how Brian gets these kits (PT88 or PT8847) to work so well but I will tell you that I don't have a standard T4 flange on the hotside and it isn't necked down to 2.5 inches.

There is a science to some of this that goes far beyond just fabbing things together.

In terms of the rest of the hotside, 1 5/8 headers, 2.5 crossover.

If it were me and I was building a true street car again, I would likely build a HUGE small block because it is a marginal amount of additional money and use a set of twin T4 turbos.

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post #25 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 03:21 PM
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My gt4708 actually has a T4 flange on it. They offer it in a .96 and from there it does go to a T6. However they do call it a T5 hotside. It's physically very large in size. My turbo also uses what I believe is an H cover so it's not as physically big as most the gt47's you see. Gives it a sleeper look under the hood if you can call it that haha



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post #26 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 04:51 PM
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Hmmm, interesting, that thing kinda looks like my turbo. I know a bit about precision stuff, but not necessarily the garrett part numbers.

I tried to find a drawing for a t5 flange and after a few minutes gave up. I have then for t4 and t6. Maybe I will try again later if bored.

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post #27 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 04:52 PM
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Oh, and I like that thing on the counter. My wife would beat my @$$ for bringing a turbo in the kitchen.

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post #28 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 05:35 PM
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Oh, and I like that thing on the counter. My wife would beat my @$$ for bringing a turbo in the kitchen.
haha... yeah well luckily I'm not married yet or I'd probably be going through a divorce right now. I just put a new 306 in the car and 200 miles later I decided to do a complete from the ground up 408 setup with a turbo

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post #29 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 10:01 PM
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Just for the record their is a 91mm t4 out their that is a pretty
mean piece. The pt88 is not the top dog anymore in the t4 world.

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post #30 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 10:40 PM
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Oh, and I like that thing on the counter. My wife would beat my @$$ for bringing a turbo in the kitchen.
LMAO I almost fell out of my chair man!! When my new turbo showed up I had it in the house on the kitchen table. My wife gave me a look and I said....So it can't sleep in the bed with us???

She couldnt help but laugh, it's funny some of the things all of us gear heads have in common!

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post #31 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 11:12 PM
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Just for the record their is a 91mm t4 out their that is a pretty
mean piece. The pt88 is not the top dog anymore in the t4 world.
Who makes the 91?

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post #32 of 49 Old 06-25-2011, 11:15 PM
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LMAO I almost fell out of my chair man!! When my new turbo showed up I had it in the house on the kitchen table. My wife gave me a look and I said....So it can't sleep in the bed with us???

She couldnt help but laugh, it's funny some of the things all of us gear heads have in common!

-CE
I had my new front wheels in the kitchen the other day. Weld Magnums. They are a work of art and actually impressed my wife.

Now, if she had only seen what I had paid....

The billet wheel turbos are almost pretty enough for the bedroom but I think the weld magnum gets a pillow first.

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i threw my wifes pillow in the floor and let the turbo sleep in the bed with me.. she didnt like that to much!!

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post #34 of 49 Old 06-26-2011, 02:20 AM
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Yeah my dining room has turned into parts storage basically. I would put the 408 in there if I had the room.

Who wouldn't want this in the dining room


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post #35 of 49 Old 06-26-2011, 08:49 AM
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https://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...g-fox-kit.html

I posted pictures of the hotside when I got it back from B&G....but at the time nobody really seemed to care about cars with 88's since the focus of the discussion on here tended to be centered on $99 chinese turbos.

You can see some of what I illuded to above.

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Intake for a 600+rwhp STREET turbo 351 madramper 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 26 03-02-2011 05:26 PM
351 turbo or 408 stroker? stangbanger88 Drag Racing 8 01-07-2011 01:15 PM
For Sale 351 Turbo Kit Complete !!! Junior2561 Power Adders 12 12-28-2010 06:59 AM

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