ON 3 92 Hatch DYNO numbers but...... - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 Old 05-28-2011, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
ON 3 92 Hatch DYNO numbers but......

I have a 92 hatch with a 306 stock block and an ON 3 70mm Kit. Took her to the tuner last week. I'm scared. 524 HP and 527ft# at 5500 RPM. But.... I am having serious boost creep issues. I cant keep the boost down with only the yellow spring in the gate. She stays at 5 psi until about 4500 and then creeps to 8-10. With my combo this is translating to easily over 500hp and we know what that means. Also, I'm running 42# injectors and I'm running out of injector. Anybody else having boost creep issues with the ON 3 gate? And does anybody have a gate with a 4 bolt flange like the ON3 comes with? I saw the tial F40, F41, F46. Anybody have one for sale. Also need some 60# injectors.


92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 05-29-2011, 10:18 AM
Registered User
 
the pony boy's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ny
Posts: 1,457
im pretty sure guys are running manual boost controlers to control the boost levels.


1993 notch lots of stuff and never done.doesnt run rite!!!!!
1990 33000 mile lx hatch.lowered,5 lugged,full exhaust,explorer intake with 65mm tb.next springs daily driver with a/c and sunroof!!!!
2001 red lightning. full obx exhaust punisher valve body!!!!!
the pony boy is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 05-29-2011, 12:08 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (55)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,773
Search and you will find a recent thread started by firemanwill. He had the same problem when he installed his On3 kit.

92 Hatch On3 Turbo, T56
92 Vert 349 Lunati Stroker T5
87 Gt Eddy HCI T5
87 Notch in progress
fmyth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 28 Old 05-29-2011, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by the pony boy View Post
im pretty sure guys are running manual boost controlers to control the boost levels.
I've got a manual boost controller. Which ADDS boost to the car over and above the spring pressure which does nothing at all to limit boost. Plus it is bypassed right now which puts it out of the picture as far as the problem goes.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 05-29-2011, 03:55 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (55)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,773
What are you using for a vac source for your WG? Some people who have had boost creep have tapped the turbo discharge for a vac source to the wg and eliminated the problem. Others have had to upgrade to a larger wg or even add a second. My friend installed an On3 kit he purchased from from me, installed it on his car w a nearly identical combo and had boost creep I did not. We tried everything even swapping my wg and bov to his car. Nothing worked so he had a second chinese ebay bov installed and the problem was solved.

92 Hatch On3 Turbo, T56
92 Vert 349 Lunati Stroker T5
87 Gt Eddy HCI T5
87 Notch in progress
fmyth is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 05-29-2011, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
fmyth- wg vac source is at the intake. I thought about tapping the turbo and still may.I wrote your write up on your friends car boost creep. I think that the diaphragm may be leaking in the wg? I was just wondering if anybody else is experiencing this same issue. I think its time to go with a bigger better gate.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 05-30-2011, 12:26 AM
Registered User
 
blue93hatch's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (27)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Slowville, AZ
Posts: 961
whats the rest of the combo?
blue93hatch is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 05-30-2011, 01:42 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (17)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nevada
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcafc View Post
fmyth- wg vac source is at the intake. I thought about tapping the turbo and still may.I wrote your write up on your friends car boost creep. I think that the diaphragm may be leaking in the wg? I was just wondering if anybody else is experiencing this same issue. I think its time to go with a bigger better gate.
u need a boost refrence source between the turbo and in front of the throttle body most the china turbos r not taped so tapping the cold pipe from the turbo to intercooler is what most do should help with your problem
allenpeake is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 06-01-2011, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue93hatch View Post
whats the rest of the combo?
new sig.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 06-01-2011, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
OK, drilled and tapped the turbo discharge and I'm still having the same problem. Boost continues to creep. I am beginning to think that the WG is the culprit.

Does anybody know of a gate that will match up to the ON3 flange? Looks like an F46 Tial has the same flange as the ON3 but I wondered if anybody matched one up for sure. If not I will just buy a gate and weld a different flange.


92 Chameleon Hatch.

Last edited by jimcafc; 06-01-2011 at 09:59 PM.
jimcafc is offline  
post #11 of 28 Old 06-02-2011, 09:21 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (17)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nevada
Posts: 444
r u puting that vac source to the side of the wastegate and leaving the top one open
allenpeake is offline  
post #12 of 28 Old 06-02-2011, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenpeake View Post
r u puting that vac source to the side of the wastegate and leaving the top one open
absolutely. however one more thing I need to check is to make sure the bolt in the banjo fitting is clocked so that it sees boost correctly. however, I thought that if you look at the banjo fitting that it didnt matter which way the bolt went because the inside of the banjo fitting is grooved so that no matter which way the bolt goes the gate will see pressure. somebody chime in if Im wrong. I looked at it before I put it on thinking the same thing but I will pull it and recheck.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #13 of 28 Old 06-02-2011, 11:37 PM
Registered User
 
blue93hatch's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (27)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Slowville, AZ
Posts: 961
seems like on3 wastegates are completely hit or miss
blue93hatch is offline  
post #14 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 06:08 AM
Registered User
 
Rich G's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,963
If its creeping it means you need a bigger wastegate or better routing of the exhaust. I would just step up to the next wastegate size.

Been out of the game since 2011.. looking to get back in in 2019
Rich G is offline  
post #15 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 07:59 AM
Banned
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,137
the boost creep is caused by the reference line being behind the throttle body. the best place for boost reference for the wastegate is the dicharge on the compressor housing. i had to add a brass barb fitting to my T70 for a boost reference...my car holds a rock solid 8 psi with no spike or creep..BTW, i have the 4 bolt 46mm WG
post #16 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 08:00 AM
Banned
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Gill View Post
If its creeping it means you need a bigger wastegate or better routing of the exhaust. I would just step up to the next wastegate size.
not true...see my above post
post #17 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidedeye View Post
the boost creep is caused by the reference line being behind the throttle body. the best place for boost reference for the wastegate is the dicharge on the compressor housing. i had to add a brass barb fitting to my T70 for a boost reference...my car holds a rock solid 8 psi with no spike or creep..BTW, i have the 4 bolt 46mm WG
See post #10.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #18 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 06:03 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidedeye View Post
the boost creep is caused by the reference line being behind the throttle body. the best place for boost reference for the wastegate is the dicharge on the compressor housing. i had to add a brass barb fitting to my T70 for a boost reference...my car holds a rock solid 8 psi with no spike or creep..BTW, i have the 4 bolt 46mm WG
Not exactly. With better TB's and good intercoolers the pressure difference between the two is usually very minimal. Plus when you creep your valve is tapped out and can't lift any higher. More pressure won't lift it any higher. Flow is the problem. With most WG's just the positive pressure form the turbo and the lack of vacuum from the intake help the diaphragm live longer because it is only pulled/pushed in one direction.
10secgoal is offline  
post #19 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Banned
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcafc View Post
See post #10.
connected to the side port on the waste gate? did you install the fire ring?

Last edited by jaidedeye; 06-03-2011 at 07:19 PM.
post #20 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 07:18 PM
Banned
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10secgoal View Post
Not exactly. With better TB's and good intercoolers the pressure difference between the two is usually very minimal. Plus when you creep your valve is tapped out and can't lift any higher. More pressure won't lift it any higher. Flow is the problem. With most WG's just the positive pressure form the turbo and the lack of vacuum from the intake help the diaphragm live longer because it is only pulled/pushed in one direction.
the best boost source will always be the ones closest to the boost producing unit..if a 46mm WG is creeping on such low boost then there is something wrong for sure. before buying another gate id check the gate with a specific spring on a bench with an air compressor.
post #21 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 07:49 PM
Registered User
 
Rich G's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidedeye View Post
not true...see my above post
Why? Your post is wrong.

Been out of the game since 2011.. looking to get back in in 2019
Rich G is offline  
post #22 of 28 Old 06-03-2011, 08:43 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidedeye View Post
the best boost source will always be the ones closest to the boost producing unit..
Not really. There might be a slight difference in pressure between the two. Bu not enough to cause creep that I have ever seen. As the boost creeps up, so do the pressure to the bottom of the gate. If it had anymore room for the valve to move and bleed, the pressure would stop rising. By putting it in the intake you can speed the spool because it does see pressure later, delaying the gate opening. I run all my cars and customers like that when they don't have controllers.
10secgoal is offline  
post #23 of 28 Old 06-04-2011, 11:21 AM
Registered User
 
mw95gt's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 295
I have the on 3 waste gate and dont have an issue with boost creep. Mine is tapped directly into the intake. I do have big vac line though. Mine holds rock solid. Have you taken the wg apart and checked the allen bolts to see if there tight no leaks ect?

95gt Dart block 363, TEA 205 Heads. 78MM Turdblower Custom cam, All fab work done by me....Moates tuned by me, AODE done up, yep I got overdrive. Drag radials, 327 rear. Next setup to come over winter...lol
mw95gt is offline  
post #24 of 28 Old 06-04-2011, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidedeye View Post
connected to the side port on the waste gate? did you install the fire ring?
Connected to the side port yes. Fire ring? I believe so. Is this the flange that seals against the plunger on the bottom of the gate? Also, I did use an air compressor and tested the gate on the car using pressure. I only used a small amount of air to test the gate (not sure what pressure) but the plunger is clearly opening. However, when running the car it is hit or miss when the gate opens. When you go to do a full throttle pull in 3rd or 4th gear is when it creeps. If you punch it in first you can hear the gate open and closing. Let me ask you this.....when you are full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear should the gate be opening and closing to limit boost or will it remain wide open through the pull. I am trying to decide if the gate is remaining open and there just isnt enough flow through it or if it is supposed to be chattering to limit spool then it clearly is the gate not operating properly.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #25 of 28 Old 06-04-2011, 09:47 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,006
It will open to relive the pressure in the exh to slow/maintain impeller speed. If you can hear it in lower gears, it's probably got no problem opening.
10secgoal is offline  
post #26 of 28 Old 06-04-2011, 11:24 PM
Banned
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcafc View Post
Connected to the side port yes. Fire ring? I believe so. Is this the flange that seals against the plunger on the bottom of the gate? Also, I did use an air compressor and tested the gate on the car using pressure. I only used a small amount of air to test the gate (not sure what pressure) but the plunger is clearly opening. However, when running the car it is hit or miss when the gate opens. When you go to do a full throttle pull in 3rd or 4th gear is when it creeps. If you punch it in first you can hear the gate open and closing. Let me ask you this.....when you are full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear should the gate be opening and closing to limit boost or will it remain wide open through the pull. I am trying to decide if the gate is remaining open and there just isnt enough flow through it or if it is supposed to be chattering to limit spool then it clearly is the gate not operating properly.
yes, the fire ring is the one that sits against the plunger..

in 3rd gear from a roll my wastegate cracks open just like it does in 1st and 2nd...its stays like that to redline
post #27 of 28 Old 06-06-2011, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (29)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dayton OH
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaidedeye View Post
yes, the fire ring is the one that sits against the plunger..

in 3rd gear from a roll my wastegate cracks open just like it does in 1st and 2nd...its stays like that to redline
OK I dont think the gate is opening in 3rd or 4th for some reason. I know you can hear it because the sound is clear when the wg dumps. Im talking with Chad from ON3 now. He's gonna try to give me a little direction.

92 Chameleon Hatch.
jimcafc is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 06-06-2011, 10:25 PM
Registered User
 
Goats's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: WPB
Posts: 260
OP it seems like the WG is too small for your setup. The boost creap is cause but not getting enough exhaust gases to bypass the turbine on the turbo. The external WG are a boost source only.With out a fire ring you will have issue boosting meaning you will have more lag.
Goats is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
your best ET, MPH and DYNO numbers? 9-SECGT Drag Racing 156 01-17-2015 11:05 PM
Why do my 331 dyno numbers suck???? boss 331 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 118 10-14-2012 01:44 AM
Some numbers from the dyno this weekend 1990 GT S-197 Mustang GT (2011-2014) 12 05-03-2011 11:26 PM
408 shelf cam dyno numbers rjschi21 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 16 02-08-2011 12:38 PM
2001 GT Stock Dyno info BMan5150 GT & SOHC 9 01-07-2002 11:30 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome