Figure Out This TKO Or Junkyard 4R70W - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 07-29-2010, 03:33 PM Thread Starter
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Figure Out This TKO Or Junkyard 4R70W

Ok guys, I've about had it with this TKO 600. It's a complete pile and will not go in third gear. Had two other people drive the thing at the track and the same #### happens. Someone suggested the shifter on them sucks so I bought a MGW, same thing still happens.

What is wrong with this thing, it's like it hits a "wall" when you go to third gear. Swear it's the worst shifting aftermarket transmission I've ever felt. Made a thread before and the carbon fiber rings were suggested to "fix" it but I don't think that's the issue. Reason I don't think it's the issue is because IF you get the shifter in the right place it'll let it go in, but when you go from second to third gear it's like something is moving wrong and you go past third gear and literally have to pull the shifter back towards first gear to get it to go in. Not sure if this is common with these things because all the issues I see are high rpm shifts and things like that, never this "wall" type experience I get.


What are the chances a junkyard 4R70W with a manual valve body will live behind a 500rwhp turbo car for awhile? Being raced prob an average of two track days a month?

What would you all do? BTW, I've always said I'd never convert to an auto(and I wouldn't if I had a good shifting manual) but this is stupid. No point in taking the car to the track if it's never going to make a good pass because of the transmission.


-Dave
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post #2 of 39 Old 07-29-2010, 03:45 PM
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talk to Darrin aT bc trans, he seems like the man for 4r70w's. He will be building mine here shortly.

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post #3 of 39 Old 07-29-2010, 06:00 PM
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I would still say you would need the 4r70 gone through and put some decent clutches in it and the mechanical diode setup. You will need a convertor too. I'd say sell the TKO and for around 1500ish you could have a nicely setup trans. Check out clickclickracing.com forums. They have some 4r70/aode gurus over there. One guy silverfox even makes valve bodies for them

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post #4 of 39 Old 07-29-2010, 08:25 PM
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I'm gonna give the stock '00 4R i have a go, i've got everything for the swap...just haven't got around to doing it yet. The converter, manual valve body, and supporting cast/etc were so damn expensive...i can't afford to build the trans yet,lol!!

I said i'd never do the auto swap either, just feel i am and would be leaving too much on the table e.t. wise if i don't.


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post #5 of 39 Old 07-29-2010, 09:18 PM
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Common problem with tremec trans is 3rd gear.. Luckly mine never did that
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post #6 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 10:21 AM
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how many miles are on the tranny?
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post #7 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meangrn92GT View Post
Ok guys, I've about had it with this TKO 600. It's a complete pile and will not go in third gear. Had two other people drive the thing at the track and the same #### happens. Someone suggested the shifter on them sucks so I bought a MGW, same thing still happens.

What is wrong with this thing, it's like it hits a "wall" when you go to third gear. Swear it's the worst shifting aftermarket transmission I've ever felt. Made a thread before and the carbon fiber rings were suggested to "fix" it but I don't think that's the issue. Reason I don't think it's the issue is because IF you get the shifter in the right place it'll let it go in, but when you go from second to third gear it's like something is moving wrong and you go past third gear and literally have to pull the shifter back towards first gear to get it to go in. Not sure if this is common with these things because all the issues I see are high rpm shifts and things like that, never this "wall" type experience I get.

9 times out of 10 the clutch is not adjusted properly.

At least every time my TKO 600 would not shift right the clutch was
not releasing properly.

Clutch adjustment and spacing seems to be critical to make TKO's shift right.


I think TKO's get a bad rep from not being installed correctly

Did you index your bellhousing ? or just bolt it on .........
Are you sure your clutch has proper disengagement ?
Shift stops set correctly ?

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Last edited by r.barn; 07-30-2010 at 10:42 AM.
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post #8 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 11:03 PM
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Wish you were closer. I have a 4R70W with 120k mi. a J-mod and a Precision Industries 3,500 lock-up. Also the aluminum driveshaft to match.

Sold-2000 GT-bolt ons and suspension. 273hp/ 309ft.lbs.
Good bye old friend
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post #9 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Tranny has around 1,000 miles on it.
Floordford, how much? If you're in TN then you're in driving distance.

I really love the manual, but I really want to try the auto too.

The bellhousing is the aluminum bell so it wasn't indexed. I got a PM from a fellow member who said his TKO had the same issues and replacing the shift lugs fixed it. What all does that entail? I wouldn't care to spend a few bucks to get it right but I really am afraid to spend "a lot" and it still not shift to my likings. Wish it would shift as good as my T5 did, I'd be mucho happy..lol

-Dave
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post #10 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 10:51 AM
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Call these guys and see what they say.

http://www.promotionpowertrain.com/TRANSMISSIONS.html

They make modified TKO 600's they claim are capable of 750+hp and 7,000rpm shifts


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post #11 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 12:38 PM
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I just had www.libertysgears.com go through my tko600 because it shifted like crap too. Wouldnt shift at all above 5500rpm into third and was even tough rowing it into 4th.

They put the newer carbon fiber rings in and did a bunch of there internal mods to it. I'll have it back in about a week and let you know if its any better.
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post #12 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meangrn92GT View Post
Tranny has around 1,000 miles on it.
Floordford, how much? If you're in TN then you're in driving distance.

I really love the manual, but I really want to try the auto too.

The bellhousing is the aluminum bell so it wasn't indexed. I got a PM from a fellow member who said his TKO had the same issues and replacing the shift lugs fixed it. What all does that entail? I wouldn't care to spend a few bucks to get it right but I really am afraid to spend "a lot" and it still not shift to my likings. Wish it would shift as good as my T5 did, I'd be mucho happy..lol

Im in Antioch which is south Nashville
https://forums.corral.net/forums/show....php?t=1234794

$300 2000 GT 4R70W transmission with J-mod (shift modifier with modified stock parts. Its the best one to use) with fill tube and dip stick
$600 9.5" Precision Industries Stallion Converter. Stall speed 3,500rpm. Multi-disk lock up
$75 Automatic petal assembly from a 2000 GT.
$200 FRPP Aluminum Driveshaft

Sold-2000 GT-bolt ons and suspension. 273hp/ 309ft.lbs.
Good bye old friend
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post #13 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floordford View Post
Im in Antioch which is south Nashville
https://forums.corral.net/forums/show....php?t=1234794

2000 GT 4R70W transmission
Needs the V6 trans bell pattern to bolt up to a 302. Yours is a 3 bolt starter, needs 2 bolt.


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post #14 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
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Needs the V6 trans bell pattern to bolt up to a 302. Yours is a 3 bolt starter, needs 2 bolt.
Its a 3 bolt

Sold-2000 GT-bolt ons and suspension. 273hp/ 309ft.lbs.
Good bye old friend
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post #15 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Needs the V6 trans bell pattern to bolt up to a 302. Yours is a 3 bolt starter, needs 2 bolt.
Yep, exactly.

What exactly is involved in changing the shift "lugs"?

-Dave
1992 Mustang GT
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post #16 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 10:32 PM
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Edit, was think fork pads.

Heres a pdf for changing to a mid shift, don't know if it helps...http://www.ttcautomotive.com/english...080107_133.pdf


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Last edited by NoSloCoupes; 07-31-2010 at 10:46 PM.
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post #17 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

Who do I need to contact about asking what I need to fix this thing to get some prices and opinions? Would I be better off talking to an aftermarket distributor or should I call Tremec themselves?

If it's nothing more than the shift lugs that needs to be fixed, I think I'm going to try and replace them and see what happens. I want an auto setup bad but I want to make some good passes with the manual first and I can't sell this thing if it's not shifting "properly" anyways.

Thanks guys!!!

-Dave
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post #18 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 07:13 PM
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Liberty Gears
MMR Transmission
Promotion Performance

are all respected TKO aftermarket upgraders
see above links. Forget calling Tremec

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post #19 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 07:50 PM
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Don't forget about Bob Hanlon.
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post #20 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meangrn92GT View Post
Thanks.

Who do I need to contact about asking what I need to fix this thing to get some prices and opinions? Would I be better off talking to an aftermarket distributor or should I call Tremec themselves?

If it's nothing more than the shift lugs that needs to be fixed, I think I'm going to try and replace them and see what happens. I want an auto setup bad but I want to make some good passes with the manual first and I can't sell this thing if it's not shifting "properly" anyways.

Thanks guys!!!
Liberty did mine ... proshifted in 3rd ... clutchless 6K rpm shifts like butter..
noisy but shifted effortlessly...

Ive driven a few cars that had Hanlon boxes... very impressive as well.
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post #21 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

So I take it Tremecs tech over the phone doesn't help much, haha. I'll let everyone know how it goes tomorrow evening.

-Dave
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post #22 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 09:50 PM
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I vote 4R70W. I think you'll be happier with a good auto in that car, Dave.
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post #23 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 09:59 PM
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I vote 4R70W. I think you'll be happier with a good auto in that car, Dave.

What he said !

Auto all the way.. was just pointing out the TKO can be made to shift great.. but Alot easier to drive a 9 second car with a auto... its a walk in the park much nicer to drive..

have a few customers running the V6 4r70w with just shift kits/convertors
and trans coolers running SOLID 10's for a few seasons... tough tranny's
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post #24 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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have a few customers running the V6 4r70w with just shift kits/convertors
and trans coolers running SOLID 10's for a few seasons... tough tranny's
This is what I want to hear!!!

How hard is it to find the V6 4R70W?

-Dave
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post #25 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 01:40 PM
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I found one at a yard online, they shipped it to another one of their places that was 15 miles away...picked it up for around $150 if i remember. Out of a '00 mustang so the shift selector is correct. Stay 98+ and make sure it has the speedo splines.

Theres an online yard search somewhere, trying to remember....
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post #26 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 03:38 PM
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I've gone pretty fast with a synchro'd TKO600, you can search posts here but I had the same problem and Pro Motion fixed it with shift lugs.
You now have the option of those CF blocker rings, so personally I'd do those at the same time if shifting over 6500rpm.
I shifted at 6000rpm and went 9.84 @ 149 after Pro Motion fixed it.
Good luck.
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post #27 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 10:49 PM
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I have a built 4R70W in mine and love it. I will never go back to a stick. It can shift a lot faster than you can and you don't have a sore left leg after driving all day. I have not made it to the track yet but it is a blast on the street with the stall.
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post #28 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 11:38 PM
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I would call up Promotion and inquire about the transmission. awhile back i remember talking to them about the 600's there was an issue with the rods being slightly bent from the factory in the trannys causing issues going into 3rd. Was a simple fix according to him.
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post #29 of 39 Old 08-04-2010, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys!!!

I really want to fix this TKO before I try and sell it, I'm not a fan of selling something that isn't "right". I do eventually want to go with the auto too so I'm always going to be looking for a 4R70W to throw in it. Going to send a few e-mails out and see which company replies then give that one a call.

Thanks and I'll keep everyone updated.

-Dave
1992 Mustang GT
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post #30 of 39 Old 08-04-2010, 10:32 PM
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Have a TKO600 in my stang. I have only driven it a couple of times now with the turbo and TKO. I know for a fact that this car would be considerably faster with an auto. For me, the TKO is going for sale sooner than later.
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post #31 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like it's going to be $500 for labor/parts plus shipping both ways for them to "fix" it.

I'm just going to be REALLY disappointed if it doesn't shift good after this.

-Dave
1992 Mustang GT
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post #32 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 10:02 AM
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You still need to go back and index your bellhousing. It does not matter
that its an aluminum bell.

ANY time you put ANY new bellhousing on an engine it MUST be indexed.

If the transmission is not square and true within very tight tolerances
to the engine, the clutch will not disengage properly and you will have shifting
issues.

This is incredibly critical thing to check. Dont be lazy about it.
It's not that hard to do. If you were in Houston I'd let you borrow my indexing jig and micrometer.

Order one ..... $100 with micrometer if I remember right.
http://www.precisionmeasure.com/fixt5.htm

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Last edited by r.barn; 08-06-2010 at 10:05 AM.
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post #33 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

I guess I'll add that to the ever growing list of parts. Might as well put a SFI scatterbell in as well.

-Dave
1992 Mustang GT
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post #34 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
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Might as well put a SFI scatterbell in as well.


Ever seen the aftermath of a clutch or flywheel that let go ?
Like a bomb going off 6 inches from your ankles.

I run a SFI steel flywheel and McLeod scatter shld.
Get the McLeod over the Lakewood for sure. Mine bolted right up
and was within indexing tolerances right out of the box. Lakewoods are
notorious for needing offset dowl pins to get theirs right.

Some great vids out there on exploding clutches if you search too.

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Last edited by r.barn; 08-06-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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post #35 of 39 Old 08-08-2010, 09:59 AM
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Huge fan of the Quick Time bell...mine was right on spec also. Plus its smaller,lighter.


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