Is a 460 worth boosting as a street car? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Is a 460 worth boosting as a street car?

Just wondering what people think of a boosted 460. I don't see vary many. 302s seem to be the most boosted engine of all time. Yet no one is boosting BBFs like that...why? Too much power (lol)? Takes more $$$$?



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post #2 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 12:48 AM
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I would say that it has to do with limited space in the engine compartment, and not to mention it would cost $$$ because it would all need to be custom.


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post #3 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 12:51 AM
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x2 on the limited space.
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post #4 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 03:48 AM
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Limited space, still not a fantastic aftermarket (compared to SBF stuff anyway), and a nose heavy piglet to boot.

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post #5 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 10:48 AM
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If you've ever seen a fox with a 460 in it, you'd understand why. You just about need a shoehorn and a gallon of lard to get it in there. I built a 603ci 460 for a guy a while back and in order to get it to fit, there had to be holes cut in the engine bay behind the fender wells to exit exhaust primaries 4 & 8.

The other reason is, it costs major bank to buy a single turbo large enough to not choke the engine. I talked to my guy a Precision about boosting that 603, and he said that in order to get a turbo large enough to not choke off the exhaust or overspin the turbine, the cost of the turbo alone would be over $5k.
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post #6 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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The Turbo is EASY. Just drop a diesel turbo on it. A Holset (or 2) is large enough, forgot the model number, but it comes on the Cummins 14l. I thought about the limited space, but I thought it was better than that. I was just looking at how a 460 with valvetrain and intake could make 800-1k EASY with a turbo or two. i am just tossing out ideas that are cheaper than a Dart block.

The custom turbo piping is cake. Flipped headers, a few bends, turbo flange and a welder.


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post #7 of 29 Old 06-14-2010, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goatnipples2002 View Post
The Turbo is EASY. Just drop a diesel turbo on it. A Holset (or 2) is large enough, forgot the model number, but it comes on the Cummins 14l. I thought about the limited space, but I thought it was better than that. I was just looking at how a 460 with valvetrain and intake could make 800-1k EASY with a turbo or two. i am just tossing out ideas that are cheaper than a Dart block.

The custom turbo piping is cake. Flipped headers, a few bends, turbo flange and a welder.
uh oh . . . rational BBF thought is NOT tolerated on corral!

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78mm impeller wheel, goofy t4/t6 foot, 90mm something exhaust wheel. Its a big turbo but I plan on the motor being done around 5600-5800. Run on e85 and hoping in the 750-800rwhp range with a th400.

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post #8 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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FINALLY...someone that sees the light! I mean hell weight is of no concern. I street/drag race...no twisties or autocross for me, BUT that doesn't mean you can't. I mean really a 460 weighs 100-150lb more than a 302? My MAIN concerns are the space and keeping it glued to the street.


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post #9 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 02:20 AM
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Yeah but your putting all that weight over the front nose of your car making traction even more of an issue. May as well do a 351 block or just hold out for a dart block. That weight will hurt and a 700hp sbf fox is gonna blow your 800hp 460 out of the water because of that weight.

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post #10 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 02:45 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah but your putting all that weight over the front nose of your car making traction even more of an issue. May as well do a 351 block or just hold out for a dart block. That weight will hurt and a 700hp sbf fox is gonna blow your 800hp 460 out of the water because of that weight.
Yes very true. I suppose SBF it is.



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post #11 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 08:09 AM
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351w an fill her full of block fill. done. an cheap
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post #12 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 09:02 AM
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You can punch a Dart 351W block out to 434-455ci as well.

408W stroke with 4.155 bore = 434ci ........ pretty damn close to BB cubes.

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post #13 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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I'm still gonna look into this one. My buddy is hell bent on a BBF with a turbo.


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post #14 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
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I'm still gonna look into this one. My buddy is hell bent on a BBF with a turbo.
As long as you kept the rpm's under 6k it would work.

Problem is you really need twin T6's hotside's to keep from choking it.


You could probably make a pair of T4's work with like 1.0 A/R -
twin 3.5 downpipes and the biggest trim turbine wheel you can get
on a T4. Q-trim ?


As far as fitting. Anything is possible with enough trimming and imagination.

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post #15 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 12:45 PM
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Without taking aluminum heads/intake into the equation, which you certainly would doing a windsor build, maybe not so much on a bbf, your looking at 200 pounds heavier for the bbf then the 351w, and 225 ballpark on the 302. Its not about not wanting rational BBF thinking, its that it just doesn't make much sense, when you have the aftermarket that caught up to the world of SBF.

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post #16 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 03:45 PM
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I was thinking about doing this a couple of years ago but ended up going with something else. There is a guy in Massachusets that had a Falcon with a mild 460 with A small Hyd cam Edelbrock heads and the basics and he was going like 8.40s. He then built a good motor and he did hold the record in the Flowmaster challenge for the most RWHP street [email protected] 1800 plus.

Think about it, a mild 514 @14 pounds is over 1000 NA Cubic inches. How can it not make a ton of power?

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post #17 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 05:33 PM
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Is a 460 worth boosting as a street car?

Years ago a guy was on here with a stroked BBF that was turbocharged and ran on alcohol if my memory is correct. I just fail to see why bother with a BBF when so much can be done with a SBF.

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post #18 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 07:10 PM
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There have been several guys with boosted bbf foxs. There is room for 2 t6 in there with a little hacking. Ultimate hell hound did it best.
But really waste your time boosting a bfbf when there are guys making 700na on pump gas. You can't hook that much less the 1100 ft#s it would make boosted. Also with such a large bore its hard to keep hot spots under control, uspecially on 93.
Most of all its just not practicle on the street, no traction. But for a dedicated strip car a 514 with some 91 cc a460 heads and twin mp76 would scream. And yes twin t4s will run great just run twin large gates and its gravy
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post #19 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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You guys kinda missed the point. It would be cheaper to just turbo, intake and cam a 460 on e85 instead of buying a Dart block (forum fav), good forged guts, AFR 225/TFS HiPo heads(forum favs) and a custom cam (forum fav). A 460 could and will put down way more power with less mods than a SB. Hell your looking at 700-800hp for the price of HCI small block.

As far as traction...that is why they make ECUs that have boost controllers that are RPM based and/or traction control. All motor getting traction is kinda tough with a standalone that has traction control, but with boost almost any electric boost controller or standalone has an RPM base that way you can dial in more boost in the upper rpms so you can get traction off the line.

Why build a V8 if a 4 cylinder has so much support....duh......CHEAPER/EASIER POWER. Going the HCI BBF then turbo route might be expensive, but building a 427 then turboing that is VERY expensive. Just turboing a 460 with a cam, intake and DIY port work can net more bang for the buck ANY day...argue that.


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post #20 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 10:36 PM
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Given the fact so many built SBF motors are always going up for sale "used" I have a hard time believing a BBF with all swap items is a whole lot cheaper than say a used built 331. Perhaps it is closer if using a stroked 351W since that will need some swap pieces as well. The 302 based motor though would be a lot more direct fit.

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post #21 of 29 Old 06-15-2010, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the opinions guys.


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post #22 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 12:14 AM
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Build one up then...

You asked for peoples opinions on why they are not that common, and you got opinions. If its building something different, and not the (FORUM FAVE), thats one thing, but lots of times because something is common, its because its the most logical.

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post #23 of 29 Old 06-16-2010, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Does filling a 351 block actually make it stronger? I know that it doesn't help the 302 block.


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post #24 of 29 Old 06-14-2011, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Diggin up an old thread I came across from a google search.........

You guys talk about the weight yet the 4.6 dohc, 351 and 460 are VERY close in weight. Shave 160lbs off the 460 by just running an alternator and aluminum heads/intake.

Many have expressed issues with space....look at a sohc or dohc mod motor THEN lets talk about space. A 460 in a 79-04 has more room than a mod in the same cars.

302/351 vs 460 for aftermarket support...LMAO...the 460 has PLENTY of support. Used BBF stuff is cheaper than sbf stuff cause the demand is low.

The biggest reason for the swap to me...no need for a race block and spend $5k on a SBF based stroker when the 460 starts out 158-109 cubes bigger. I don't understand spending a shizton on a 351 stroker to achieve 427 when a 460 is WAY cheaper.

I am not set on this motor swap, but this is what I found out from my searches.


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Last edited by goatnipples2002; 06-22-2011 at 05:56 PM.
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post #25 of 29 Old 06-14-2011, 11:09 PM
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does anyone make a twin t4 header for bbf have seen some for bigblock chevys
a twin 76mm with a blow thru tunnel ram would look cool
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post #26 of 29 Old 06-17-2011, 01:24 PM
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I would do the bbf. Stock big block out of a older f250 with stock crank and good pistons and rods will make and take 800rwhp all day long with twin 76's and make a ton of tq! Sure it will be nose heavy but if its a mostly drag car you can ditch a lot of the other not needed stuff in the front of the car. The most expensive parts in this build will be the turbo stuff but youd spends tons more on a sbf to make the same power reliably.

A stock block sbf will make 800rwhp but wont last too long....even the 351's.

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post #27 of 29 Old 06-17-2011, 07:15 PM
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getting a bb to have traction is a pita
what is the stock block and crank capable of? just curious on that.

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post #28 of 29 Old 06-17-2011, 09:26 PM
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As soon as I get all my other projects out of the way, this is axactly what my next one will be. 514(or 557?) with twin 76's on E85. My other coupe is tubbed, so traction wont be a problem. Considering I live so far from a track(may change soon), towing to the track was getting old and I wasnt looking forward to a track only car. Nothing like driving a twin turbo BBF to work to ease the rush hour blues.
On a budget, there isnt much that can touch a mild BBF with a turbo. The factory blocks and cranks will hold around 800 na. Lower the RPM with a turbo, and theres no telling how much they will hold.
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post #29 of 29 Old 06-22-2011, 01:04 PM
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BG has a few custom BBF/Fox turbo kits. I believe they are single kits, but Im sure Brian has done the twins too. A single T6 would be right at home on a mild 460. No need for twins.

Erica Ortize(SP?) has taken her stock block 460 deep into the 7s in her twin turbo Tbird. Search her name up on TTF. Lots of pics of her car and the motor.

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