Need help 5.0 vs 5.8 vs 5.3/6.0 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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Need help 5.0 vs 5.8 vs 5.3/6.0

I currently have a stock short block with a 60mm turbo...I also have Eddy performers 60229's (uninstalled). The compressor map for my Garrett TP38 looks something like a Garrett 62-1. I am trying to build the most reliable/powerful boosted motor combo for the least amount of money. Tranny will most likely be a TKO, but that is up in the air for now. I know the stock block isn't gonna live forever with boost and my lead foot so I just want to be prepared for the day it gives up the ghost.

1. Race block, cheap forged pistons/rods, Not sure what the stock crank will hold. I like this because I can keep my current turbo setup and really don't have to make any changes, BUT the down side is the cost to have the motor built plus the cost of the block.

2. 351w f4te roller block, cheap forged pistons/rods, stock crank. I like this for the increase in cubes and the block is pretty stout, but with this setup I need new manifold, new hot pipes and most likely a bigger turbo, but I could get by with the one I have. Not to mention all the parts that nickel and dime you to death to swap it over.

3. Swap in an LS series GM 5.3 or 6.0l iron block truck motor. I like this because I can get the 5.3 for $300 complete from the auto recyclers and the 6.0l goes for about $500 complete. These motors have also been proven to hold quite a bit of power. They don't need heads because the stock heads flow like AFRs and highports. It also has features in the block that modern race blocks have. I don't like this option because it is another project and I just finished one (turbo/tuning). I have to change alot.

NO ford nazi comments just unbiased opinions please.



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post #2 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 08:31 AM
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Race block.


80 coupe, N/A 347, tko500 1.34, 6.30 @ 109.01, 9.87 @ 137.06

16 GT, daily driver on pump 93, Procharger 1.42, 6.31 @ 109.59, 9.80 @ 141.57
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post #3 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah the race block option didn't sound like the cheapest but it might just be.


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post #4 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 10:45 AM
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Build the race block on the side and swap it in on the weekend vs drama with the windsor or ls swaps. Time is money too.

80 coupe, N/A 347, tko500 1.34, 6.30 @ 109.01, 9.87 @ 137.06

16 GT, daily driver on pump 93, Procharger 1.42, 6.31 @ 109.59, 9.80 @ 141.57
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post #5 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 12:13 PM
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Dont like any of those compromises really.

The 5.3's really are good, but their rods bend and they dont have forged
pistons stock and #7 hole is known for blowing out for some reason.

I would build up a race block with good rotating assembly.

The 351 swap is kind of a pain that I'm not sure is really worth it .... been there done that.
unless you want to go with a 434W race block with a honk'n big turbo and 1000rwph

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Last edited by r.barn; 05-26-2010 at 12:16 PM.
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post #6 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Okay 2 for the race block.


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post #7 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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After talking to a few of my buddies the 6.0 swap is what I am leaning towards now. Cheap, stock heads flow like aftermarket units, ignition system that everybody wants, able to hold and handle 800hp reliably. The only "hard" part of the swap is wiring. I'm headed to the dark side.


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post #8 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 05:55 PM
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Highly recommend swapping out to forged pistons on GM Gen-III motors.

LS1truck forums are full of people with turbo LS-trucks and the
number 7 hole is notorious for blowing out.

Fix seems to be to install forged pistons. They seem to hold up very well
with forged pistons and stock rods and crank with ARP rod bolts.

I would also highly recommend looking around for a set of L92 truck heads
to put on there. They will bolt on to the 4.0" bore 6.0L motors and flow
well over 300cfm in "stock" form.

The stock 6.0 heads are good (nothing but LS-2 heads with bigger combustion chambers)
but the new L92 heads are insanely bad-ass.
They do require a special intake though, but there are some out for them already.

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post #9 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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I wonder if the #7 has to do with the intake design. Sounds like somebody else is ready for the dark side....MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


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post #10 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 07:30 PM
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i say race block


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92 Red Notch 5spd w/ B&G Kit Powered by MS2 V3 running Extra Code-----SOLD!
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post #11 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 07:32 PM
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race block!! time it is said and done it will come out the same,,motor 300, harness???, motor mounts ,etc take apart,new gaskets,head bolts,bearings polish crank,new rods ,pistons ,,,RACE BLOCK,

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bbr tune ,bbr x-pipe,jlt cold air
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post #12 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goatnipples2002 View Post
I wonder if the #7 has to do with the intake design. Sounds like somebody else is ready for the dark side....MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
There are all kinds of theories on why it blows. Does it on the aluminum
block Camaro's too.

I think its a combination of coolant passage flaw and uneven airflow.

The internet is full threads about boosted "LS" motors running hotter and
leaner on hole #7 though.

I know about all this cause I have a 5.3L Tahoe I mess with too.
Have a $200 5.3L long block in the garage and LS6 heads in the closet to go in my Hoe, next.

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post #13 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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I think the 6.0 sounds cool, but might be more money than I thought. The 302s downfall is the damn block. I THINK by time I have rods/pistons put in a stock 351 block it should handle the power I want to push and the piping might cost that much, but the added cost of the extra parts puts me right where the 302 is. DAAAMMMNNNNN IT!

Briefly crunching numbers.....they all do come out close to the same price. The easiest would be a race block.


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post #14 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
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Briefly crunching numbers.....they all do come out close to the same price. The easiest would be a race block.
Exactly why I recommended it in the first place.

Easiest to put in and after its all said and done really isnt that much
more expensive and you know it's hell-a strong

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post #15 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Now which block is the "best"?


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post #16 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 10:49 PM
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dart all the way
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post #17 of 38 Old 05-26-2010, 11:00 PM
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new Dart SHP.

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post #18 of 38 Old 05-27-2010, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
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Is a race block really needed if a 351 roller block can handle 800ish? Just reading over on the turbos forums and most say for 700rwhp or less just go F4TE block....agree or not?


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post #19 of 38 Old 05-27-2010, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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?


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post #20 of 38 Old 05-27-2010, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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for 700rwhp or less just go F4TE block....agree or not?
It's like pushing a 302 to 500rwhp. It'll do it, but you're really pushing the
block to the very edge of its limits.

Personally I think the 351W stock block is good to about 600rwhp like
the 302 is good to about 425rwhp. Past those numbers ..............

If did it over again, I would do a DART SHP big bore 347 (363ci) with some TEA TW's
and a Precision 78GTS.

or go balls out with a DART Iron eagle 351W block at 434ci and twin Turbonetic 62-1's.
would feel like a 700" motor probably

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post #21 of 38 Old 05-27-2010, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Hell I see MANY people push the hell outta that block. I'm not doubting you but........I need to weight out my option. It's boiled down to 302 race block or 351 stock block.


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post #22 of 38 Old 05-27-2010, 10:36 PM
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It's boiled down to 302 race block or 351 stock block.
Having done the 351 route, I wish I had just saved up the extra $1,500 for
a Dart 302 block after it was all said and done.

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post #23 of 38 Old 05-27-2010, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Well I guess it's gonna be a race block. Now it's time to plan for tax season......I love being a parent.....................sometimes


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post #24 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 08:58 AM
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Yeah the race block option didn't sound like the cheapest but it might just be.
ok first off what kind of power are you wanting to make? im running a 351e F4TE block now with stock rods,pistons and they will take between 700 to800 horsepower as long as its tuned right..so the question is what power are you wanting to make?
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post #25 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 09:03 AM
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i have seen people on the forums make 1000 hp on a f4te block no sure how long it lasted but i have seen it.im using the f4t3 block now with a 76mm turbonetics turbo...a dart block is nice but no need for it unless you are going to make some big power even then if its not tuned right you can break it just like a f4te.it all comes down to the power you want and make sure its tuned correct
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post #26 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 09:06 AM
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It's like pushing a 302 to 500rwhp. It'll do it, but you're really pushing the
block to the very edge of its limits.

Personally I think the 351W stock block is good to about 600rwhp like
the 302 is good to about 425rwhp. Past those numbers ..............

If did it over again, I would do a DART SHP big bore 347 (363ci) with some TEA TW's
and a Precision 78GTS.

or go balls out with a DART Iron eagle 351W block at 434ci and twin Turbonetic 62-1's.
would feel like a 700" motor probably
a stock 302 can handle power if its tuned right.i have a stock block 347 with 150 shot made [email protected] wheels car went [email protected] 128
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post #27 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 09:56 AM
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a stock 302 can handle power if its tuned right.i have a stock block 347 with 150 shot made [email protected] wheels car went [email protected] 128
and I have a buddy making 750rwhp on a stock 302 block for 2 race seasons
now too. Doesnt make it any less of ticking bomb though.

It's not in the tune, although that does help some.

It's in the crank chatter/walk and much luck you have in the webbing under
the main caps not cracking and breaking.

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post #28 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 10:54 AM
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I'd save my pennies and watch classifieds and buy an already built motor that someone could not afford to finish their project for or is selling due to parting out their car. I'd also stick with "302" based since less dicking with your tubing although I hope you realize with the added cubes your "62-1" really is not going to be enough turbo.

I do know someone who if I remember correctly is in the process of doing a budget turbocharged 5.3L. I know he swapped the heads to some factory head for better compression. He has it in a WRX of all things. If I remember things correctly his thought process was to run it to it blows then toss another in there due to just how cheap the motors can be had for.

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post #29 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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I will look into a 351 for sure. Not looking for any power number. Just want durability and speed for cheap.


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post #30 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 11:44 AM
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You must be looking for something because a stock 302 can be durable and provide speed. Plenty of people get well in the 10s with them without pushing the envelope. Really should decide what that number is so you can figure out all the supporting modifications for it and a game plan towards the end goal. Otherwise you could easily make the mistake of buying something today that is not at all good enough for your end goal.

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post #31 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah 302s are durable all motor. No power number because I'm not a dyno racer. I street race and I just want my turbo setup to be reliable as far as the bottom end goes.


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post #32 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 12:33 PM
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I know people who have ran 10s with stone stock 302 shortblocks in their daily drivers and done so for years via turbos. Heck I did it for years myself but with a supercharger and actually never have broken a block because when I wanted more than 10s is when I started invested in more expensive parts. If you think around 500rwhp through a standard transmission is not enough power for speed then more power to you but the stock shortblock in a turbo app has proven to be plenty durable at that level. If you want to exceed that then you certainly need to think about all of the supporting mods, your turbocharger for one is not going to be good for a whole lot beyond that.

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post #33 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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I plan to run a little more boost and throw some juicy juice on it, but I am working on reliable, durable and getting it to the ground now.. I am going to need a better block and a better tranny. I have plans for a face planted TKO600 and still not sure on the motor yet. 10s ain't shiz anymore.....unless you wanna go home broke. The turbo is an easy fix.....Duramax/Powerstroke hybrid. The Turbo off the Duramax with the exhaust housing off a Powerstroke...Good for about 700hp with great spool.


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post #34 of 38 Old 06-01-2010, 02:29 PM
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I plan to run a little more boost and throw some juicy juice on it, but I am working on reliable, durable and getting it to the ground now.. I am going to need a better block and a better tranny. I have plans for a face planted TKO600 and still not sure on the motor yet. 10s ain't shiz anymore.....unless you wanna go home broke. The turbo is an easy fix.....Duramax/Powerstroke hybrid. The Turbo off the Duramax with the exhaust housing off a Powerstroke...Good for about 700hp with great spool.
no 10 is not #### anymore but you said you street race and you will never get a 500+ car to hook so if you are doing alot of street racing you better get some good tires suspention and #### a tko600 if you want to go fast go with a c4.i know guys with 500hp beating guys with 650+ cause the other guys cant hook for ####
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post #35 of 38 Old 06-03-2010, 08:16 PM
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Sounds like you should just shop around for an A4 or a used R block. Then just swap your stuff over. No sense in buying a brand new Dart or FMS block and sticking a "budget" rotating assembly in it.

Also, I really like my 428"/88mm Windsor. 8sec street car with 16psi and a hell of a lot more to come. Windsors are worth any headache the swap might bring.
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