Smoke from breathers - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 Old 08-18-2009, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
Smoke from breathers

How much if any are you guys seeing from your breathers? I'm running a k&n breather on the fill neck, then I have 1/4" npt elbows drivers side runs to pcv valve (no longer used) then to the pass. valve cover, then to a upr oil catch can. I'm seeing slight smoke from both breathers. Rear main is leaking it's ass off, Im hoping that the extra vents from valve cover will fix this but I think the damage is already done to the seal. Anyways just curious if I need to do a leak down and check it. Motor only has around 2k to 2.5k on it. Thanks for any help.

87TurboGT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 Old 08-18-2009, 01:45 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
You have blow-by

Do a leak down test to see which cylinder's rings arent sealing anymore


Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #3 of 29 Old 08-18-2009, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
So your saying any smoke at all is not acceptable?
87TurboGT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 29 Old 08-18-2009, 05:10 PM
Registered User
 
pennex1's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bayport, Long Island N.Y
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87TurboGT View Post
So your saying any smoke at all is not acceptable?
If you are running a turbo, you are going to have blowby! How much is too much?
Leak down will tell you the story.

Dart 347, High Ports, FAST XFI, TH400, Precision 78GTS,E85, 836hp 714tq.
pennex1 is offline  
post #5 of 29 Old 08-18-2009, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
Well I did a compression check right before I deleted the pcv. All cylinders were about 150. I was just curious if anyone else sees this on their cars.
87TurboGT is offline  
post #6 of 29 Old 08-19-2009, 08:31 AM
Registered User
 
strokercharged95GT's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,196
mine does the same, and I have no problems with the motor.

1995 Mustang GT - 347 - PT7576
2004 Mazda RX8 - 13B-REW BWS362
2013 Mercedes GLK-350
strokercharged95GT is offline  
post #7 of 29 Old 08-19-2009, 08:43 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87TurboGT View Post
Well I did a compression check right before I deleted the pcv. All cylinders were about 150. I was just curious if anyone else sees this on their cars.
Not compression test

A Leak Down Test.

Leak down will test rings for sealing.
The amount of leak down you get will tell you if you're getting too much
blow by and if you're about to lose a hole.

Leak Down Test fixture/tool is fairly cheap and a good tool to have.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #8 of 29 Old 08-19-2009, 06:22 PM
Registered User
 
Rich G's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,963
Why do a leak down test when the breathers are smoking? Its obvious you have blow by.. IMO just deal with it, unless you wanna rebuild the motor..
I just made 550rwhp with the breather smoking like a chimney

Been out of the game since 2011.. looking to get back in in 2019
Rich G is offline  
post #9 of 29 Old 08-19-2009, 06:37 PM
Registered User
 
CaliNotch n MI's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (15)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 1,060
might want to look into this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbricher View Post
Check these out. I bought a couple of these 3/8 one way check valves. I am using one inline with the PCV valve to intake and one inline from the intake to the vacuum tree. They fit perfect. They will let vacuum through but no boost pressure. Other than that I am just using a breather on valve cover.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...uct%5Fid=15641

Post #21 from : https://forums.corral.net/forums/show...ght=crank+case


I'm going to try and run a couple of check valves.

1993 Notch: Mexican 347 Hellion TFS heads/GT40 intake/Custom Cam Tremec 3550
1992 GT Convert: Green/Blk interior, 10th anniversary cobra's mostly suspension mods.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FB users please, PLEASE click "like" button. Thanks!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CaliNotch n MI is offline  
post #10 of 29 Old 08-19-2009, 07:52 PM
Registered User
 
TFROSTCOUPE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Corpus Christi,Texas
Posts: 101
Blowby.....

When my last engine was building alot of blowby it turned out to be a blown head gasket. It was bleeding the cylinder pressure straight up to the lifter valley.

TFROSTCOUPE is offline  
post #11 of 29 Old 08-21-2009, 10:44 PM
Registered User
 
pkstang's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (162)
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA
Posts: 7,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliNotch n MI View Post
might want to look into this:

Post #21 from : https://forums.corral.net/forums/show...ght=crank+case

I'm going to try and run a couple of check valves.
here's the problem. that 3/8"check valve will seriously cut down your air flow and that entire system will be just about useless and more than likely you will start having issues with the dip stick popping out. a better bet is to weld some 8AN (at the very least) onto your valve covers and simply run them into a catch can that will trap any oil and let the car breath out.

pk

'90 notch w/an "old school" cartech outlaw kit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When The Results Disagree With The Theory: Believe The Results And Invent A New Theory
pkstang is offline  
post #12 of 29 Old 08-21-2009, 11:19 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Gill View Post
Why do a leak down test when the breathers are smoking? Its obvious you have blow by.. IMO just deal with it, unless you wanna rebuild the motor..
I just made 550rwhp with the breather smoking like a chimney
It's usually an indication that something is not going to last much long.
You'll usually lose a piece of ring into the cylinder eventually.

Leak down will tell you how bad it is and which hole.

or like you say, F' it and just run it till it blows.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #13 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 11:42 AM
Registered User
 
pennex1's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bayport, Long Island N.Y
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn View Post
It's usually an indication that something is not going to last much long.
I wouldn't be too sure about that statement in a turbo engine!

It is very common to have blowby in a turbo engine. If you seal it up completely, your dip stick or you next weakest point will start to blow out or leak out.

Dart 347, High Ports, FAST XFI, TH400, Precision 78GTS,E85, 836hp 714tq.
pennex1 is offline  
post #14 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 11:47 AM
Registered User
 
Rich G's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn View Post
It's usually an indication that something is not going to last much long.
You'll usually lose a piece of ring into the cylinder eventually.

Leak down will tell you how bad it is and which hole.

or like you say, F' it and just run it till it blows.

Maybe so buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut..

If you gotta tear it down to check out a piston why not just run it till it blows
either way results in a teardown

Been out of the game since 2011.. looking to get back in in 2019
Rich G is offline  
post #15 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 11:55 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Gill View Post
Maybe so buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut..

If you gotta tear it down to check out a piston why not just run it till it blows
either way results in a teardown

Because if you catch it before it blows a chunk of ring into the engine
and destroys the cylinder wall and who knows what else ........

You could have just re-honed and re-ringed that cylinder for about
1/100th the cost of rebuilding and re-machining the entire engine.



It may not be that bad.

Like I said, he needs to do a leak down test just to see where
he's at. then you go from there on how much effort and money
that engine is worth to you.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.

Last edited by r.barn; 08-23-2009 at 11:57 AM.
r.barn is offline  
post #16 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 11:56 AM
Registered User
 
Rich G's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn View Post
Because if you catch it before it blows a chunk of ring into the engine
and destroys the cylinder wall and who knows what else ........

You could have just re-honed and re-ringed that cylinder for about
1/100th the cost or rebuilding and re-machining the entire engine.

who rebuilds stock engines?
Junkyard shortblocks ftw

Been out of the game since 2011.. looking to get back in in 2019
Rich G is offline  
post #17 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 12:00 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Well some of us dont like blowing up junky old engines just to throw
another junky old engine in there. .......... to each his own I guess.

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #18 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 12:23 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (33)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 3,095
A engine blowby isn't going to put a peice of ring into the cylinder. That's just someone talking out of their ass. You would have to snag the ring on something or butt the ends together to break a ring.

It's a turbo motor, it's gonna have blowby. Either rebuild it and have less blow by or just run the damn thing. I personally would just keep boosting it. My 95 in my sig is my daily driver and it has the stock 180k mile long block in it. It goes high 11's on 18" dr's

1987 Saleen clone: 358cid, FoxLake Vic Jr's, Victor 5.0, YSi, etc, etc, etc
809rwhp on pump gas + meth injection
"Just turn the boost up.....it's only air."
tireburner163 is offline  
post #19 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 12:26 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (33)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 3,095
just reread the post. You have a fresh motor. Put vents in the vavle covers. You gotta get the pressure out. I would say at least two, I run 4

1987 Saleen clone: 358cid, FoxLake Vic Jr's, Victor 5.0, YSi, etc, etc, etc
809rwhp on pump gas + meth injection
"Just turn the boost up.....it's only air."
tireburner163 is offline  
post #20 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 12:41 PM
Registered User
 
ratedz's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,052
Mine have been smoking for more than a year now - car still runs very strong mid 10's and rolls the same numbers on the dyno.

No way I would ever put good parts inside a stock block - so junkyard motors FTW.

1986 Mustang GT
306 E303, TEA 185 TW, Quicktime Turbo 67mm, Redneck C4 15lbs boost
525hp/626tq
*Sold drivetrain - Rolling Chassis may be available*
ratedz is offline  
post #21 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 05:33 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 4,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by tireburner163 View Post
A engine blowby isn't going to put a peice of ring into the cylinder. That's just someone talking out of their ass. You would have to snag the ring on something or butt the ends together to break a ring.

Yep, talking out of butt, never seen it happen before .......

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep sitting down and voting on whats for lunch.
r.barn is offline  
post #22 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 07:29 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (17)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 855
when i first fired up my motor it had some blowby from both breathers. nothing too bad but it was enough to force oil out the rear main. i got a header evac kit, only installed it on one side. no smoke at all from the other breather that is open to the atmosphere and hasnt leaked a drop of oil since.

TWIN TURBO!! Because bottles are for babies and superchargers blow
megasquirt, 331, twin 66s, ported 205cc head, efi spyder intake, 160# injectors, e85
luckythirteen13 is offline  
post #23 of 29 Old 08-23-2009, 11:23 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (33)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Meridian, Mississippi
Posts: 3,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.barn View Post
Yep, talking out of butt, never seen it happen before .......




If you would sir, would you mind please explaining how a piece of ring simply breaks off and ends up in the cylinder when there is no contact. What makes it randomly break off for no good reason?

1987 Saleen clone: 358cid, FoxLake Vic Jr's, Victor 5.0, YSi, etc, etc, etc
809rwhp on pump gas + meth injection
"Just turn the boost up.....it's only air."
tireburner163 is offline  
post #24 of 29 Old 08-24-2009, 12:02 AM
Registered User
 
Rich G's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (35)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 7,963
because at one point in time he had soem blowby and then he lost a piston so he assumed it was because of the blowby

Been out of the game since 2011.. looking to get back in in 2019
Rich G is offline  
post #25 of 29 Old 08-24-2009, 12:20 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South
Posts: 264
Why not use a crankcase evac system if breathers are not doing enough?

98 white Black convert saleen s281 replica 04 cobra motor ported blower bogart big and littles built 8.8 04 cobra top interior etc. Art Carr c4 big stall planning for big turbo and highs 8's.
93 Calypso Coupe blown Bennet stroker, D&D viper 6 speed sold to Ethan B, fellow Corral member
streetcar is offline  
post #26 of 29 Old 08-24-2009, 08:39 AM
Registered User
 
Don 95Vert's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Delaware, OH
Posts: 3,529
My turbo Gen 1 Lightning has 5000 miles on the motor and it has had some 'fog' out the breathers the whole time and that 5000 miles is over 3+ years. Mine is usually worse at idle when it's cold and has been sitting a few days. I did a leak down test on mine a while back to play with a leak down tester and the motor is 100% fine.

Our '95 700 HP turbo Mustang also has a pretty fresh motor and it does the same thing - and the engine is currently apart (not because of that) and the cylinder walls look like they just came out of the machine shop.

When you run a PCV, you still get a 'fog', but you don't see it. Not all oil vapors are the result of blow-by, some of it may even be water vapor you are seeing - I say that because my catch cans usually have some water in them - and this is NOT due to water leakage internally - it's due to the heat cycles in the motor and condensation of atmospheric water.

Bottom line, IMHO - if you run open breathers and NO PCV system, you are going to see some 'fog' coming out from time and as long as it isn't like a garden fogger, I think it's perfectly normal and nothing to get upset over.

Don

95 Lightning - Slow
95 Convertible 357 turbo
10.5/135 @ 3800#
SCT Tuned

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don 95Vert is offline  
post #27 of 29 Old 08-24-2009, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don 95Vert View Post
My turbo Gen 1 Lightning has 5000 miles on the motor and it has had some 'fog' out the breathers the whole time and that 5000 miles is over 3+ years. Mine is usually worse at idle when it's cold and has been sitting a few days. I did a leak down test on mine a while back to play with a leak down tester and the motor is 100% fine.

Our '95 700 HP turbo Mustang also has a pretty fresh motor and it does the same thing - and the engine is currently apart (not because of that) and the cylinder walls look like they just came out of the machine shop.

When you run a PCV, you still get a 'fog', but you don't see it. Not all oil vapors are the result of blow-by, some of it may even be water vapor you are seeing - I say that because my catch cans usually have some water in them - and this is NOT due to water leakage internally - it's due to the heat cycles in the motor and condensation of atmospheric water.

Bottom line, IMHO - if you run open breathers and NO PCV system, you are going to see some 'fog' coming out from time and as long as it isn't like a garden fogger, I think it's perfectly normal and nothing to get upset over.

Don
That pretty much answers my question. I had no smoke before, fog is a better word, that more what it looks like, but when I deleted the PCV I started noticing it. Also noticed a touch of condensation in my catch can. Thanks.
87TurboGT is offline  
post #28 of 29 Old 08-26-2009, 09:29 AM
Registered User
 
mbricher's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkstang View Post
here's the problem. that 3/8"check valve will seriously cut down your air flow and that entire system will be just about useless and more than likely you will start having issues with the dip stick popping out. a better bet is to weld some 8AN (at the very least) onto your valve covers and simply run them into a catch can that will trap any oil and let the car breath out.

pk
Been running my turbo setup for 2 years now with the check valves, PCV system, and one breather in the oil fill neck. The check valves are the same size as the hoses, no restriction. Besides they are there to block boost pressure from going through, not vaccuum. Never had a dipstick pop out. May get a little "fog" from the breather but minimal at best.

1990 Mustang GT
Dart IE 363, PT78 HPS, Built 4R70W, BS3, BBRC Fuel system, TeamZ, ect.....
Tuned by Bob Kurgan
mbricher is offline  
post #29 of 29 Old 08-26-2009, 08:16 PM
Registered User
 
pkstang's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (162)
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Marlborough, MA
Posts: 7,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbricher View Post
Been running my turbo setup for 2 years now with the check valves, PCV system, and one breather in the oil fill neck. The check valves are the same size as the hoses, no restriction. Besides they are there to block boost pressure from going through, not vaccuum. Never had a dipstick pop out. May get a little "fog" from the breather but minimal at best.
you're running a breather in your valve cover which helps LOT

try running that same setup, which i have seen people do, without that brether and see what happens

pk

'90 notch w/an "old school" cartech outlaw kit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


When The Results Disagree With The Theory: Believe The Results And Invent A New Theory
pkstang is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Breathers paxton50mustang 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 26 05-13-2009 03:33 PM
Smoke is bad right? Like smoke from under the dash. Ghettostang SVO/2.3L 0 07-21-2005 11:12 PM
Smoke coming out of valve cover breathers lx347cid 5.0/5.8 Engine Tech 7 05-03-2004 07:19 AM
smoke from valve cover breathers? VIPERBLUELX SVT & DOHC 2 09-29-2003 10:22 PM
Smoke from the valve cover breathers DPhillips GT & SOHC 4 07-21-2002 05:29 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome