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post #1 of 44 Old 06-29-2009, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Unhappy I need turbo help

well where to start . i bought a hellion kit and installed it on my 331 foxbody notch . i have a t-trim charger on it b4 and made 510 rwhp at 10lbs of boost . i decided to take it off and put a turbo on it and unfortunately im barely touching 400 at 13lbs with a t76 with a 96ar . my car on the dyno after 4400 rpm is not making motor hp but the boost is up the can anyone help me ??? or have an explanation for that .im making low 400's at at 4400 rpm help me find the other 1700 rpm of power please i know i should at least be somewhere between 510 and 570 rwhp

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post #2 of 44 Old 06-29-2009, 08:27 PM
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post dyno graph a/f etc . . .

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post #3 of 44 Old 06-29-2009, 10:43 PM
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yo dude post the stats. there's too much to it to guess.

post compressor map. combination(heads, calculated airflow/pressure ratio), etc.

the turbine a/r will definitely have something to do with it, but my guess is you have plenty of turbine gas flow.



im gonna start with easy stuff.

are u sure about your inlet system restriction?
what about piping pressure drops
intercooler

the the pressure you listed at the discharge nozzle or manifold?

have you figured your pressure ratio and the compressor?

have you plotted the point on the compressor map?
are u sure where u are falling on the efficiency scale?
do all of the calcualtions.

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post #4 of 44 Old 06-29-2009, 10:48 PM
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looking at a t76 map it flows enough for around 800hp. correct me if im wrong but 400hp is like 45 lb/min.

so no way the turbo itself is an issue.


assuming everything is good on ur system 13psi is about 1.88 PR. of course it isnt because things prohibit that.

96 mustang GT-93 teksid 4v forged: ported heads, kellogg crank, billet i-beams, CP forged pistons, 9.4:1, BIG turbo, 4x28x12 fmic, big boost.

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post #5 of 44 Old 06-29-2009, 10:54 PM
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34-70 lb/min is about the map's range or about 640hp or so.

that assumes ur motor uses that volume well.

i guess what im sayin is TUNE. missin it somewhere is my guess. im not willing to calculate airflow for you at 4400rpms but it is probably near 55 considering drivetrain losses.

nowhere near a problem for that turbo.

tune man.

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post #6 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 06:16 AM
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What plugs and gap are you running? What ignition are you running? What is your complete combo?

Like others have said, post you're dyno readout with AFR's.

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post #7 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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ok my combo goes as this 331 stroker motor 8.5.1 comp. afr heads . andersonson cam . eldebrock intake . msd ignition msd 6a box i also run an anderson pms . my turbo kit consist of a hellion kit which came with a t76 turbo with a .96 ar housing . and evolution waste gate i am running an intercooler but dont know the size but it is the standard one from there website im running 60# injectors, 3.27 gears . the plugs i think are ngk 9's and the last i know they were gapped at .28 . im gonna run over to the shop today and try to get the dyno graph so i can post it up thank every one for the help
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post #8 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 08:36 AM
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whats your timing and fuel pressure set to?

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post #9 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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i know the timing is at 10 at the bottom and 20 to 22, 23 on top and the fuel pressure i ha e to get the info from the shop
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post #10 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 12:31 PM
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what is your AFR at WOT? i would say it should be 11.0-11.2 for saftey on pump gas


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post #11 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 01:30 PM
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A dyno grapgh would be nice to see and the air fuel ratio.

Which AFR heads and manifold do you have?

Who is tuning the car in Brooklyn and what kind of dyno is it?

I agree that your turbo is capable of around 700rwhp. It would have to in the tune or a mechanical issue.

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post #12 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 06:04 PM
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If the bearing was messed up and the propeller has alot of play would that be a problem?
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post #13 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 07:01 PM
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should have side to side play, NO IN AND OUT and should NOT touch the scroll at any point. i am going to say you might have an exhaust leak, your valve springs are shot, or you have a blown head gasket or leaking intake gasket. it doesnt plow oil out of the pcv does it ? at 13lbs off that 76mm on a 331 you should be making around 575 rwhp

does it break up at all or fall on its face ?

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post #14 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by killa89erstang View Post
If the bearing was messed up and the propeller has alot of play would that be a problem?
i see u found me and my cry for help with the car
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post #15 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by andrew b View Post
A dyno grapgh would be nice to see and the air fuel ratio.

Which AFR heads and manifold do you have?

Who is tuning the car in Brooklyn and what kind of dyno is it?

I agree that your turbo is capable of around 700rwhp. It would have to in the tune or a mechanical issue.
-the car is being tuned on a dyno jet
-the heads are afr 185
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post #16 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 07:53 PM
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i'd say it's time to take it to someone who knows how to tune it, my stock shortblock 302 60mm turbo would kill your car right now lol. what are you using to tune it?

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post #17 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 08:04 PM
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i see u found me and my cry for help with the car
you too guys play nice... oh and whats up with that screen name

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post #18 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 08:05 PM
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i'd say it's time to take it to someone who knows how to tune it, my stock shortblock 302 60mm turbo would kill your car right now lol. what are you using to tune it?
Its not the tuner my car is also being tuned in the same shop and is making power...

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post #19 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 08:07 PM
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at 13 pounds springs shouldnt even be close to an issue unless we're talking .650lift radical lift rates or something.

im using stock springs at 14. of course .420lift is why.

it could be exhaust related, but im only running 2.5" up pipe and no problem boosting to the moon. i know its not a 331 but ported 4v uses a tiny bit of airflow.


really more info is needed. i think if the a/f was too fat he'd notice the diesel like smoke, or if too lean to blowout hed burn a piston pretty quickly. dyno operators are pretty good about shutting it down.

plug blow-out, fat a/f, too much timing(counter-torquing), or actual boost at rpm is not really there. just dunno.

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post #20 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 08:11 PM
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cam grind? u using a blower grind on a turbo?

96 mustang GT-93 teksid 4v forged: ported heads, kellogg crank, billet i-beams, CP forged pistons, 9.4:1, BIG turbo, 4x28x12 fmic, big boost.

2011 GT 300A, 3.73, M6, spoiler delete, brembos
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post #21 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 08:50 PM
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at 13 pounds springs shouldnt even be close to an issue unless we're talking .650lift radical lift rates or something.

im using stock springs at 14. of course .420lift is why.

it could be exhaust related, but im only running 2.5" up pipe and no problem boosting to the moon. i know its not a 331 but ported 4v uses a tiny bit of airflow.


really more info is needed. i think if the a/f was too fat he'd notice the diesel like smoke, or if too lean to blowout hed burn a piston pretty quickly. dyno operators are pretty good about shutting it down.

plug blow-out, fat a/f, too much timing(counter-torquing), or actual boost at rpm is not really there. just dunno.
well if his springs are old, they may just be tired. you DO realize there is now "boost" in BOTH the intake AND exhaust side ? where as the blower had on the intake side only.

i will agree and say a blower cam wont be ideal. we need to see some dyno graphs

90 lx 5 speed... 10.5 @ 136 stock bottom end and cam... ford junk !
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post #22 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 09:32 PM
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doreen please post me up your tune out of your pms. I will look it over for you to see if there are any issues i may see, but if your at a good tuner, then we probably shouldn't see issues there. I'll take a look though. Can you tell me if your fuel pressure is holding, and if your boost is steady and not bleeding off. I'd also like to see your timing numbers. I will try to help you as best I can. I don't see why your tuner wouldn't be able to tell you what is wrong here though. I'd like to see what cam you got though, there's no reason your car should stop making power at 4400. Your just starting to make power just below that point. just a quick note. what exhaust are you running? CATS? somethings not adding up.

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post #23 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 09:41 PM
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i agree. somethin just aint right.

96 mustang GT-93 teksid 4v forged: ported heads, kellogg crank, billet i-beams, CP forged pistons, 9.4:1, BIG turbo, 4x28x12 fmic, big boost.

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post #24 of 44 Old 06-30-2009, 09:43 PM
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now my very first pull with thus was funny. A/F put out diesel smoke and it made no power, but it still made that at high rpms. (i was being way too careful)didnt take many tries to really get it going. a tuner should fix it easy and quick.

96 mustang GT-93 teksid 4v forged: ported heads, kellogg crank, billet i-beams, CP forged pistons, 9.4:1, BIG turbo, 4x28x12 fmic, big boost.

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post #25 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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the car dont smoke , the car dont miss and the boost dont drop the car at 6000 rpm looks like it want to jump off the dyno but it aint showing no number that it suppose to but i will definitely try to get the dyno graph up . i just have to get it from th shop but to be honest im ready to give up on the car !
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post #26 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 02:28 PM
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well doreen, you can't expect us to help you unless you provide real info. i'm not being rude at all, but nothing your saying makes sense, if your tuner doesn't know, then take it somewhere else because something is wrong and you need help.

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post #27 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 04:00 PM
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well doreen, you can't expect us to help you unless you provide real info. i'm not being rude at all, but nothing your saying makes sense, if your tuner doesn't know, then take it somewhere else because something is wrong and you need help.

i concur

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post #28 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 06:29 PM
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haha is it spinning on the dyno?

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post #29 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 06:55 PM
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haha is it spinning on the dyno?
Possible, but the tuner should be able to tell.

Is this a stick or auto?

If you have a c4 in there the converter can be way to loose. It won't show #### for power.

I know of only one Dyno jet in Brooklyn.

Don't bail on the car, if you get it straightened out, you'll be happy you didn't dump it.

I'll give you 500 for it. LOL

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post #30 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 08:43 PM
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Is that an Anderson blower cam? Do you know which one it is?
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post #31 of 44 Old 07-01-2009, 10:58 PM
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shot in the dark and say its the b41

90 lx 5 speed... 10.5 @ 136 stock bottom end and cam... ford junk !
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post #32 of 44 Old 07-04-2009, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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doreen please post me up your tune out of your pms. I will look it over for you to see if there are any issues i may see, but if your at a good tuner, then we probably shouldn't see issues there. I'll take a look though. Can you tell me if your fuel pressure is holding, and if your boost is steady and not bleeding off. I'd also like to see your timing numbers. I will try to help you as best I can. I don't see why your tuner wouldn't be able to tell you what is wrong here though. I'd like to see what cam you got though, there's no reason your car should stop making power at 4400. Your just starting to make power just below that point. just a quick note. what exhaust are you running? CATS? somethings not adding up.
just got my car back from the shop the car feels like its holds back after going under boost if u guide me i will go into the pms and tell u where my settings are and i know its wrong cus at wot is at 26 degrees and i know that to much
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post #33 of 44 Old 07-04-2009, 02:30 PM
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If your running that car with 26* on 13lbs, i'm impressed it hasn't exploded yet. I definately would not beat on it until your get things right unless you like rebuilding stuff. I can't even believe your tuner would let your car leave like that, unless we are missing some info here i don't know about. surely you've got to hear that car detonating???

FILL THIS IN with info out of your pms...

Year model:
Engine cubic inch:
Power Adder/NA:
Amount of boost/nitrous:
Intake:
Throttle Body:
Mass Air Meter:
Intake Piping:
Cylinder Head & rockers:
Camshaft profile:
Injector Size:
FMU type:
Header size/type:
Fuel Pump(s):
Rails:
Supply/Return Line size:
Fuel type:

IDLE Control On/Off:
fuel:
timing:
start-up fuel:
idle air adjuster:
Low Load (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
Medium Load (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
High Load (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
WOT (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
Boost or Tables: (Fuel first & Timing second)
Max Boost setting:
@1 psi
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
@Max Boost
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
Nitrous Tables: (Fuel first & Timing second)
N20 on
2200rpm:
4000rpm:
6000rpm:
7800rpm:
Standalone On/Off:
Rev Limiter:

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post #34 of 44 Old 07-04-2009, 06:04 PM
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his timing is why i mentioned countertorquing. if the A/F is ok, and combustion temps are not through the roof then its possible the motor is near a blow-up and reversing power. i mean it can happen just before shattering a rod.

i say this because i ran 20 percent nitro in a motor and got the timing totally wrong.
the motor survived but it was a disaster on the run.

96 mustang GT-93 teksid 4v forged: ported heads, kellogg crank, billet i-beams, CP forged pistons, 9.4:1, BIG turbo, 4x28x12 fmic, big boost.

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post #35 of 44 Old 07-05-2009, 10:31 AM
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Ok i have been reading this for the last few days and want to clear up a few things. What he hasnt told you is the turbo is shot,mass air was purchased used, and the exhaust is restrictive.

We swapped out the mass air and it made more power. We dropped the exhaust and it made more power. But with the turbo being in the conditions it is in, it was not worth to keep making dyno pulls. The turbo shaft has about 1/2 an inch of play and needs a rebuild fast.

Its not the tuners fault the car is not making power. My car with same boost and same size motor with 12lbs made almost 600 rwhp.

I have told him many times what to do but he rather keep giving you half the info and think it will fix the car.
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