C4 experts please chime in regarding stall! - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 06-22-2009, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Arrow C4 experts please chime in regarding stall!

I am possibly going to be trading my Tremec for a C4 that has a 2500 stall. Is that low of a stall going to work for a turbo car? It has no brake, but I was hoping it'd still be better then the stick at least. I do daily drive the car, 88 GT w/ a MPT70, shooting for 550whp.

I am clueless on stall choices when it comes to an auto, so hopefully you guys can help me out.

Thanks, as always.

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post #2 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 12:02 PM
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That size shouldn't be a problem. But what rear gear do you have? I would sugest a 3.27 with the auto. Also what kind of convertor? Is it made for a turbo set up?

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post #3 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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He's going to try and find some more info for me on the converter, so for now I just know it is a 2500 stall. I doubt it has anti-ballooning plate or anything like that. I don't have another $600 for a converter though after the trade.
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post #4 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 01:35 PM
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If you don't have an auto now, stay away from the c4!!!! They are very weak trans, and you will destroy one on the street with the tq of a turbo car. Even at 550hp you can plan on having to rebuild the thing frequently. Don't buy into the places that claim 1khp out of the trans etc. The trans internals are too small to handle the abuse of daily driving. Go on turboforums and you'll see first hand all the problems turbo guys have with c4s. Esp on the street.

If you're a turbo car, and want a reliable dd 3sp trans, you have to go with the th400. The cost to go auto will be pretty much the same regardless if you go th400 or c4. So why not go with the th400 from the start? With minimal upgrades and stock hard parts a th400 will live at 700hp. If you ever had one of these trans side by side and saw the differences in the internals you'd see why the c4 doesn't live.

Save your money, do it right the first time instead of doing it twice. If you put a c4 in the car, you will have problems, it's just a matter of when. Unfortunately I like others had to learn the hard way, learn from my mistakes.

For what you sell your tremec setup for you can probably have 80% of a th400 setup paid for.
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post #5 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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If you don't have an auto now, stay away from the c4!!!! They are very weak trans, and you will destroy one on the street with the tq of a turbo car. Even at 550hp you can plan on having to rebuild the thing frequently. Don't buy into the places that claim 1khp out of the trans etc. The trans internals are too small to handle the abuse of daily driving. Go on turboforums and you'll see first hand all the problems turbo guys have with c4s. Esp on the street.

If you're a turbo car, and want a reliable dd 3sp trans, you have to go with the th400. The cost to go auto will be pretty much the same regardless if you go th400 or c4. So why not go with the th400 from the start? With minimal upgrades and stock hard parts a th400 will live at 700hp. If you ever had one of these trans side by side and saw the differences in the internals you'd see why the c4 doesn't live.

Save your money, do it right the first time instead of doing it twice. If you put a c4 in the car, you will have problems, it's just a matter of when. Unfortunately I like others had to learn the hard way, learn from my mistakes.

For what you sell your tremec setup for you can probably have 80% of a th400 setup paid for.
First time I've heard that a built c4 can't handle 550whp...? Whats up with all the guys running them with luck? It has all the hard parts, redline clutches, billet servo, rmvb, hardened input, etc. I don't plan on going higher then 550whp to be honest, stock block won't have it.
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post #6 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 02:24 PM
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First time I've heard that a built c4 can't handle 550whp...? Whats up with all the guys running them with luck? It has all the hard parts, redline clutches, billet servo, rmvb, hardened input, etc. I don't plan on going higher then 550whp to be honest, stock block won't have it.
Honestly it's who sets them up. I've had to rebuild a "big name" trans places c4 myself, and I had it live for a while at 550hp... But it's not the hp that kills it, it's the torque, and as we know turbo cars are tq monsters. I had every bell and whistle on the thing as well.. the parts are just too small to reliably
hold 550+ You say that you only want 550, but once this engine breaks, say you have the chance to upgrade shortblocks or something and are in the 700hp range, or you go with a turbo 351... you won't be using that c4! The th400 will work with minimal upgrades to 7-800hp, and you have the ability to have them hold 1500. Guys don't talk about it much, because most don't have first hand experience, just what they read in a mag or what they've heard from their sisters friends brothers uncle. If you already had the c4, I'd say keep it, because it might live at 550 for a bit... but if you're make the swap to auto for the first time, do it right and do it with something you won't have to replace down the rd. Trust me, I thought I was going to stop at 550hp stock block. Now I'm on a dart 363 pt88
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post #7 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
 
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Honestly it's who sets them up. I've had to rebuild a "big name" trans places c4 myself, and I had it live for a while at 550hp... But it's not the hp that kills it, it's the torque, and as we know turbo cars are tq monsters. I had every bell and whistle on the thing as well.. the parts are just too small to reliably
hold 550+ You say that you only want 550, but once this engine breaks, say you have the chance to upgrade shortblocks or something and are in the 700hp range, or you go with a turbo 351... you won't be using that c4! The th400 will work with minimal upgrades to 7-800hp, and you have the ability to have them hold 1500. Guys don't talk about it much, because most don't have first hand experience, just what they read in a mag or what they've heard from their sisters friends brothers uncle. If you already had the c4, I'd say keep it, because it might live at 550 for a bit... but if you're make the swap to auto for the first time, do it right and do it with something you won't have to replace down the rd. Trust me, I thought I was going to stop at 550hp stock block. Now I'm on a dart 363 pt88

Well, here's another issue in my case. I really don't have the luxury of selling off the Tremec and waiting up to purchase all the parts for a TH400. I daily the car, and am moving in a little over a month. I'd like to get the auto in and done before that, and then get it tuned. That is why I was looking at just trading it straight forward for a built C4. People aren't really spending $$ right now and I'd have a hard time getting the $$ for the Tremec.
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post #8 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 03:06 PM
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Well, here's another issue in my case. I really don't have the luxury of selling off the Tremec and waiting up to purchase all the parts for a TH400. I daily the car, and am moving in a little over a month. I'd like to get the auto in and done before that, and then get it tuned. That is why I was looking at just trading it straight forward for a built C4. People aren't really spending $$ right now and I'd have a hard time getting the $$ for the Tremec.
Which I can totally understand... but don't just trade for the c4 cause it's convenient. If I were in your situation, I'd keep running the tremec, find a good th400 core and have it built locally. Then you can piece everything and get the parts while you have the money. This way you can swap to good stuff (you really don't even know if this c4 you may be getting is any good, most likely would need a rebuild) and there will be little downtime on the car. Then you can still sell the tremec for decent $, and have an auto that you won't have to mess with. I made the mistake of buying a used c4 before, and unfortunately had nothing but problems. Since you don't really know what you're getting unless you rip it apart, it's really taking a chance....and with something as weak as the c4, it's not a very good chance that there's nothing wrong.

I've been down this path, and that's why I'm so persistent in not going the c4 route. It's no fun having to pull the trans to have it built and not being able to enjoy the car.
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post #9 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 03:11 PM
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Shop for a PA (Performance Automatic) Comp C4 with all the SFI goodies. They're rated at 700hp and do the job. There has been a ton of used ones available lately. I bought one myself just a few months ago. Mine is no torque monster, but there are plenty of 10-second cars at the track that use this exact setup.

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post #10 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 03:23 PM
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i have a built c4, drive it on the street with no problems at all. it was in my buddys coupe and put down 400hp and ran 10.20 in the 1/4. He also has a drag car with a built c4 that runs 9.6s with over 600 hp. These c4 are not pa built either. They were built by a local guy that really knows his crap when it comes to c4s. He usually charges 500-600 bucks for a full rebuild with all the upgrades.


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post #11 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well.. the car needs a tune bad. So I can either find an auto now and get it swapped in, and get it tuned -- or get it tuned with the 5spd (basically throwing $$ away) and wait. Decisions decisions.. you have me really thinking now!
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post #12 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 04:41 PM
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No problems yet with my C-4 .
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post #13 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 04:49 PM
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Saying a c4 will go 9's is like saying a stock ecu will run 9's. They're doing one thing for a short period of time. Just like a stock ecu will work "ok" at WOT, it has horrible idle and part throttle driveability , thats why people swap to stand alones.

Just like with the c4, at the track it's really not doing much... You're WOT and the car is not going to be under the stall of the converter. When you're on the street and it's under the stall rating, and the temps start to climb and it's hot for an extended period is when you're going to run into the problems. It's your car do what you want, but I can assure you that if you get the c4, and keep your turbo setup, you'll have nothing but issues. Go do a search on turbomustangs and see what you find.

If you're going to do it from the start why not do it right? It's been proven over and over that a th400 is stronger than a c4, and it costs the same to build them...

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post #14 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 06:23 PM
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My buddy just trashed his redneck c4 with only abotu 390rwhp

Personally I tried running around with my car only in 4th and it was horrible, even with the 3.27 gears. On top of all that it made the car heat up more which just compounded my temperature problem.

I want to go auto also but will never ever consider a non od tranny unless its a race car only.

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post #15 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Maybe it is worth it to just stay with the Tremec for a while then? Just sucks to spend $200 on a tune and then have to have it re-done somewhat soon.. but I guess then I can take the time and do it later. I may just end up waiting after all, I'll have to put some more thought into it.

How hard is a th400 to throw into a foxbody? The car is originally a T5 car, and I read about issues putting an AOD in so that steered me away (as well as the price).
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post #16 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 06:56 PM
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Maybe it is worth it to just stay with the Tremec for a while then? Just sucks to spend $200 on a tune and then have to have it re-done somewhat soon.. but I guess then I can take the time and do it later. I may just end up waiting after all, I'll have to put some more thought into it.

How hard is a th400 to throw into a foxbody? The car is originally a T5 car, and I read about issues putting an AOD in so that steered me away (as well as the price).
TH400 will have the same issues as the C4 just stronger.. just stick with the stickshift, its not that bad.. I have been driving mine alot and the turbo stick car is ALOT of fun on the street. It might not be the #1 track terror but itll be close and makes for a funtime on the street.

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post #17 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 07:06 PM
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jw swap bell
flexplate
converter
aje th400 trans mount
yolk for th400 output

If your converter is setup correct, you shouldn't be heating the piss out of the trans with 3.27's cruising around... I agree that an OD trans is much better on a driver, but a th400 with 3.27's or 3.08's isn't that bad.
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post #18 of 48 Old 06-23-2009, 10:13 PM
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Daily driven here - Redneck C4 w/brake runs 10.50's and no issues so far. If you have the money go with a TH400 and be done with it.

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post #19 of 48 Old 06-24-2009, 02:53 PM
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for a 500hp street car, just keep the tremec.
also, if you're so worried about $200, then you need to get a new hobby. lol.

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post #20 of 48 Old 06-24-2009, 03:17 PM
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for a 500hp street car, just keep the tremec.
also, if you're so worried about $200, then you need to get a new hobby. lol.
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post #21 of 48 Old 06-24-2009, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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for a 500hp street car, just keep the tremec.
also, if you're so worried about $200, then you need to get a new hobby. lol.
Must be nice to wipe your ass with 100's then.. I'd rather not throw away money.
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post #22 of 48 Old 06-24-2009, 10:24 PM
 
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post #23 of 48 Old 06-24-2009, 10:25 PM
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Must be nice to wipe your ass with 100's then.. I'd rather not throw away money.

That's not what he means.


It's more like "What's $200 bucks to protect your investment?"


How much do you have invested in your car? $200 to me is a drop in the bucket if it's spent on a tune that will protect the 10-15k that I invested in this car - and i'm currently unemployed!

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post #24 of 48 Old 06-25-2009, 12:28 AM
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4L80E

we think alike.... I'm working on a 4l80e behind a boss 363 in my coupe...controlled by my aem ems
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post #25 of 48 Old 06-25-2009, 08:02 AM
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Ive got a c4 behind my BBF powered Mustang and I dont have any issues.Over 100 1.30 60' and counting.And its well over 550 ft lbs of tq.
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post #26 of 48 Old 06-26-2009, 09:36 PM
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I don't understand why no one uses a C6.

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post #27 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 09:09 AM
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it's heavy as hell and uses a ton of power.

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post #28 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 11:48 AM
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How much heavier and how much more power than a TH400? Not a $4000 TH400, but a basic perf build. What is in your car classic boost?

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post #29 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 12:09 PM
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it's heavy as hell and uses a ton of power.
Not too mention the piss poor lack of aftermarket support for that transmission.

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post #30 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 12:24 PM
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What is in your car classic boost?
pa c4. i had the dreaded 2nd gear flare once already, but knock on wood, it's been doing good for the last few years.

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post #31 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 01:07 PM
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Did you upgrade your turbo? I thought I saw somewhere you were putting a pt88 on it. It is hard to get good info on the net, but from what I can tell a C6 is 10 lbs more than a TH400. 150 for a C6 and 140 for a TH400. The high dollar TH400 is very efficient, but the stock ones in 1st gear turn the intermediate and high gear drums backwards. This eats a lot of power in first. The 2 drums weigh 28 lbs. If I can't keep a C4 in mine I will build a C6 for it. I was given a small block C6 core. I think I can build a 1000hp/1000tq C6 with brake for about $600-$700.

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post #32 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 02:53 PM
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pa c4. i had the dreaded 2nd gear flare once already, but knock on wood, it's been doing good for the last few years.
I get the 2-3 flare almost every shift - is this common or one of those ''that's not good'' things?

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post #33 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 04:02 PM
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is this common or one of those ''that's not good'' things?
yes.

lol. it's common for c4s that are put behind some power.

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post #34 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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I bought a Dynamic Mighty M2 c4 w/ a brake, 3400 stall w/ balloon plates and built for boost, hurst quarter stick, etc. etc.

Can't wait to get it into the car!
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post #35 of 48 Old 06-29-2009, 07:20 PM
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Redneck C4 2 years and counting. Never been into it. Ran their 3500 stall for about a year and a half. Ran some 10.5s @ 128 w/ my HCI 302 w/ a MP T70, 3.27s. New 351 setup, same tranny, same convertor just restalled (tightened it up, was blowing through it), spragless, 3.08s 10.1 @ 141 w/ crappy 60' do to slipping traclok.

I run 2 tranny coolers seriesed together, 1 is a B&M super cooler in the factory foglight location and another cheaper one like from Advance b/w the intercooler and radiator. I never see higher than like 170*and thats highway driving. I drive 7 miles to work and the needle doesnt even rise lol.

Im not saying the TH400 isnt a superior tranny, cause it is. But saying "every" C4 wont hold up to some power isnt entirely true, well so far it has worked for me. But there are definately many factors. Parts used, builder, etc.

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