C&L 76mm mass air questions, ditch or use? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-19-2009, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Arrow C&L 76mm mass air questions, ditch or use?

Ok here's the deal:

Car is completely set up ready to tune, but I've got a few questions regarding the C&L meters being used in a blow through config.

The way the car is setup now is with a B&G kit, piping in the fender with the c&l meter & STOCK MAF SENSOR. The meter is not clocked at all, the sensor is straight up.

To my main concern: My tuner said it should be fine, but that I should purchase a Diablosport Mafia because he thinks the meter will probably peg before 500whp. What do you guys think about this?

Should I just get the mafia and keep the C&L, or buy a PMAS Pro tube and be done with it and sell off the C&L?

Either way, I want the best route that will work.. what do you guys think?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 20 Old 06-19-2009, 04:51 PM
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i ditched mine, i've got a H/C/I car with a hellion kit. my drivability sucked with it but my car wasn't tuned. i switched to an abaco meter and the drivability got alot better but still isnt what it should be. ( i'm determined to tune this car myself so i'm probably the biggest problem lol)

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post #3 of 20 Old 06-19-2009, 05:28 PM
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I tune my car and a good friend of mine's car(both turbo) w/ a C&L 76mm. My car uses the tuner tube and I had them flow the meter w/ my sensor(70mm cobra maf) and give me the transfer #'s. My buddies car is just a box stock 76mm w/ 42lb inj tube and a stock sensor. We haven't had a problem w/ them maxing out yet. Although they haven't been dyno'd my car runs 127-130mph @ 8-9psi. Its probably making somewhere in the 450hp-500hp range.

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post #4 of 20 Old 06-19-2009, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Here is another thing.. I have the 42lb. sample tube in it now, with 60# injectors. Driveability right now sucks but it seems like the computer learned because it isn't smelling like fumes as it used to when we first fired it up.

So should I just get the Diablosport mafia and use it then? I just figured, $150 for the mafia, or spend $250 for a diff. meter and sell my C&L.

Last edited by ChaseGT; 06-19-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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post #5 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 12:58 PM
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I would not buy anything. Take the car and have it tuned. Your tuner should have the generic C&L 76mm w/ 42lb inj. transfer function. He can then punch that in and it will give you a baseline. Have the car dyno'd and data logged. Then you can see if the meter is pegging or not.

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post #6 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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I would not buy anything. Take the car and have it tuned. Your tuner should have the generic C&L 76mm w/ 42lb inj. transfer function. He can then punch that in and it will give you a baseline. Have the car dyno'd and data logged. Then you can see if the meter is pegging or not.
Even with 60# injectors he will be able to get around it you think?
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post #7 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 02:41 PM
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the meter will peg.. when you convert a draw through meter (what a C&L is calibrated for) into a blow through, you lose 30% head room... i have tune a few and with using my sneec logger, they pegged around 425rwhp.

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post #8 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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So what is the best option? Do I run a MAF extender and leave the C&L (easy route, will this work fine?) Or do I rip it apart and put something else in its' place?
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post #9 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 06:53 PM
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Even with 60# injectors he will be able to get around it you think?
Yes. The transfer function is for the MAF and the flow numbers that it produces at certain voltages. He can then adjust the injector slopes to match your 60lb injectors.

From what I hear and read - Kurgan does know his stuff and has tuned far more cars than I have. I am just a DIY kind of guy and like to tune my own stuff and stuff for friends. He may be correct on the meter pegging, but he may also be wrong. I believe that my car is making more than 425hp and it still has plenty of room left on that meter. My meter does have a little more room in it than your meter w/ the 42lb injector tube. My vote is to try it out and see.

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post #10 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 07:08 PM
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So what is the best option? Do I run a MAF extender and leave the C&L (easy route, will this work fine?) Or do I rip it apart and put something else in its' place?
yes.. last one i tuned (about 2 weeks ago) we wired a MAFia... i log MAF voltage and it was pegged at 5volts around 425rwhp... this is the 3rd C&L that did the same thing.. I was using 42lbs inj on the last one, but 60s on the previous ones.. i was using SCT to tune them and using a sneec to log.


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post #11 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
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Yes. The transfer function is for the MAF and the flow numbers that it produces at certain voltages. He can then adjust the injector slopes to match your 60lb injectors.

From what I hear and read - Kurgan does know his stuff and has tuned far more cars than I have. I am just a DIY kind of guy and like to tune my own stuff and stuff for friends. He may be correct on the meter pegging, but he may also be wrong. I believe that my car is making more than 425hp and it still has plenty of room left on that meter. My meter does have a little more room in it than your meter w/ the 42lb injector tube. My vote is to try it out and see.
what was your MAF voltage and what were you using to log it?? How many samples per second was your logger?

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post #12 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Wait.. so your saying you used a mafia as well? The mafia should support them well above 425rwhp..? My tuner told me to leave the C&L and bring in a mafia with it and it will be much easier. He will be using SCT as well.. This won't be for a couple weeks anyhow, have to get the auto swapped in before any tuning goes on.
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-20-2009, 10:55 PM
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Wait.. so your saying you used a mafia as well? The mafia should support them well above 425rwhp..? My tuner told me to leave the C&L and bring in a mafia with it and it will be much easier. He will be using SCT as well.. This won't be for a couple weeks anyhow, have to get the auto swapped in before any tuning goes on.
yes, we took a f7383 mafia and set it on 2... i rescaled the inj slopes and displacement and made a pull maf voltage was now only 4.5volts.. i ended up making around 470rwhp through an aod on this last car... ive used mafia's on cars making over 1000rwhp.

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post #14 of 20 Old 06-21-2009, 01:09 PM
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what was your MAF voltage and what were you using to log it?? How many samples per second was your logger?
Based off an old log I found - Tuning w/ a Tweecer and Binary Editor. Max MAF voltage that the car saw was 4.25 volts @ 5680rpm. AFR was dialed in @ 11.6. Timing set @ 20*. The datalog was captured every 50ms(1/20th times per second).

Note: This log is about 1.5yrs old. I can't seem to find any recent ones, plus the car has been down for some time.

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So, am I under the understanding that the C&L w/ the Diablosport Mafia should do fine for 500+whp?
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post #16 of 20 Old 06-21-2009, 10:14 PM
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Based off an old log I found - Tuning w/ a Tweecer and Binary Editor. Max MAF voltage that the car saw was 4.25 volts @ 5680rpm. AFR was dialed in @ 11.6. Timing set @ 20*. The datalog was captured every 50ms(1/20th times per second).

Note: This log is about 1.5yrs old. I can't seem to find any recent ones, plus the car has been down for some time.
blow through or draw through?? What trans?

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post #17 of 20 Old 06-22-2009, 04:03 PM
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blow through or draw through?? What trans?

Blow through. T5.

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So, am I under the understanding that the C&L w/ the Diablosport Mafia should do fine for 500+whp?
??
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-22-2009, 08:41 PM
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??
Yes.

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post #20 of 20 Old 06-22-2009, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you sir, just wanted to verify before I go and buy something.
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