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post #1 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Manual to Auto options

Plain and simple, I’m contemplating swapping from my current 3550 over to an auto tranny. Shifting is fun….but I’ve finally come to the realization that lower ET’s are just worth it to me.

An overdrive gear for the freeway is a MUST. While I don’t do a ton of freeway driving, I don’t want to give up the fuel economy and lower RPMS seen at 70+mph.

I am currently running a low mileage, stock 3550 tranny setup. If I can’t do a break-even deal with my current set-up….at this point it’s really not worth my time.

So how about it? What are my options, what's all involved…and realistically…what’s it going to cost me?


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post #2 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 12:11 PM
 
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Well.. a nice lentech AOD would be a good swap for you since you want overdrive. You probably won't brake even though with an AOD (built), it will most likely be a bit more but worth it still.

For me, I am running 3.27s with a 28" tall tire so going to a C4 will be perfect, and very easy swap (and I will break even..).

With that gear ratio it will still be completely driveable on the freeway.

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post #3 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Well.. a nice lentech AOD would be a good swap for you since you want overdrive. You probably won't brake even though with an AOD (built), it will most likely be a bit more but worth it still.

For me, I am running 3.27s with a 28" tall tire so going to a C4 will be perfect, and very easy swap (and I will break even..).

With that gear ratio it will still be completely driveable on the freeway.
So no breaking even on an AOD...even if it's used? How much can a stocker handle?

Completely driveable...but not likely comfortable at my 75-80mph cruising speed.
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post #4 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 12:48 PM
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4r70w with manual valve body. My friend has one and he loves it. Good luck. Although in my humble opinion I am rooting for you to keep a stick. We are too few. True greatness never came with ease....
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post #5 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 12:55 PM
 
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If you can find someone to trade, sure. Stocker won't handle anywhere near 500whp

I have been doing some research as well.. but since I do hardly any highway driving C4 for me it is (and the butter smooth swap it is..).

If you could find someone to trade you an AOD (built) that'd be sweet. I think someone makes something so that you can bolt it up into a factory t-5 car without changing the sheet metal as well around the shifter.
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post #6 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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4r70w with manual valve body. My friend has one and he loves it. Good luck. Although in my humble opinion I am rooting for you to keep a stick. We are too few. True greatness never came with ease....
Bah!! Don’t get me wrong…I do feel that driving a manual is more enjoyable. For the limited amount that I drive the stang lately though…I just think the better ET’s outweigh the added “fun factor” of driving a manual. Besides, my DD is a manual too!

As for your friend, what Is his setup? Is it a stock 4r70w with the manual valve body? How much power can they hold in stock form? I do believe megasquirt was coming out (if not already came out) with an option for controlling an AODE equipped vehicle….so that may also be an option.

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If you can find someone to trade, sure. Stocker won't handle anywhere near 500whp

I have been doing some research as well.. but since I do hardly any highway driving C4 for me it is (and the butter smooth swap it is..).

If you could find someone to trade you an AOD (built) that'd be sweet. I think someone makes something so that you can bolt it up into a factory t-5 car without changing the sheet metal as well around the shifter.
Ok, I got gotcha. Is building one just a matter of swapping out for better components? Is it far more complicated than rebuilding a T-5 (something that I’ve done…and was quite easy)?
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post #7 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 02:05 PM
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I have been doing research on this as well. It seems the overdrive autos that are built to handle the extra power are quite a bit more expensive than a c-4 or th400. Also factor in you will most likely need a different converter than what someone will trade if they had an n/a or blower set up as well as a deeper pan and extra cooler.

I know you dont want a non overdrive tranny, but for an even swap that will support the power I think that will be about the only option.
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post #8 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 02:13 PM
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You could probably plan on $2000-3000 for a decent built aod and a new converter. I just spent about $2000 on one w/o a manual valvebody or transbrake.

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post #9 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 02:15 PM
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I dont think you will get anywhere near close to break even unless you go the C4 route, you can get absolutley everything you need from Redneck Performance fro 2100 bucks, all you would have to add is a shifter.

AOD's are super expensive, looking at close to 2k just for the tranny and if you wanted a manual VB add another 800 bucks. Then add 600+ for a converter, 300 for shifter, 100 for cooler and lines etc etc..

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post #10 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Grrr....

Are these costs figured used? I really could care less on new or used (actually prefer used)...as long as it was built and maintained properly.


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post #11 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 03:24 PM
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Grrr....

Are these costs figured used? I really could care less on new or used (actually prefer used)...as long as it was built and maintained properly.
Those are new prices from SilverFox Transmissions.
Thats a manual VB w/ brake


I am sure used would be much cheaper but I have yet to see a used aod with manual transbreak VB since I have been looking (couple weeks)

C4's are abotu the best bang for the buck but no OD is garbage, I put my car in 4th just to simulate no OD and I hated every second of it.

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post #12 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Those are new prices from SilverFox Transmissions.
Thats a manual VB w/ brake


I am sure used would be much cheaper but I have yet to see a used aod with manual transbreak VB since I have been looking (couple weeks)

C4's are abotu the best bang for the buck but no OD is garbage, I put my car in 4th just to simulate no OD and I hated every second of it.
Is a manual transbreak VB a "must have", or is it something that can wait? I realize for the price associated I'll have to make some sacrifices.
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post #13 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 05:40 PM
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no I dont think its a must have, I was mainly considering it to try and keep some of the manual feel.

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post #14 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 06:02 PM
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everyone is looking auto, heck I am even thinking of swapping myself. What is a Lentech? I have read they are highly desired. How much are they?


What would a C4 with 3:27 gear do at 70MPH? 3000RPM?


Also, pulling the tires off the ground is more achievable with an auto vs: 5 speed. This is one of the main reasons I am considering the swap over. If your front tires raise 6" off the ground who cares weither your shifting or not!

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post #15 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 06:05 PM
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prolly a little more rpm with converter slip

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post #16 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 09:13 PM
 
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Just go 2.73:1 gear with 27" tire.
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post #17 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 09:25 PM
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Not to thread jack here but just puting out another option what do you guy think this would hold?

Built AOD and an Art Carr 3800 stall conv..?
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post #18 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 10:00 PM
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4r70w with manual valve body. My friend has one and he loves it. Good luck. Although in my humble opinion I am rooting for you to keep a stick. We are too few. True greatness never came with ease....
A few years back a friend of mine took I believe those transmissions out of later model V6 Mustangs and would buy a rebuild kit and some sort of tranny controller(to avoid the need for a manual valve body). I do not remember the overall cost but I recall it being very cheap compared to other options. The things held up great to power, actually the first one he did was to replace an Art Car AOD that his cousin blew up a few times and the homegrown replacement I do not think ever died or at least not in the years afterwards that I stayed in touch with them.

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post #19 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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A few years back a friend of mine took I believe those transmissions out of later model V6 Mustangs and would buy a rebuild kit and some sort of tranny controller(to avoid the need for a manual valve body). I do not remember the overall cost but I recall it being very cheap compared to other options. The things held up great to power, actually the first one he did was to replace an Art Car AOD that his cousin blew up a few times and the homegrown replacement I do not think ever died or at least not in the years afterwards that I stayed in touch with them.
Yep, that appears to be the cheapest route to take...on a budget. I'll for sure be looking into it.
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post #20 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 10:37 PM
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From what I remember of his experiences, it would be my first option on any true street turdbo Mustang.

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post #21 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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From what I remember of his experiences, it would be my first option on any true street turdbo Mustang.
I'll have to do some researching too...but megasquirt at one time was supposed to incorporate a tranny controller somewhere in it's code. I'm not sure if it's available yet...and if so...what versions. It may be a cheaper route to upgrade the megasquirt than to go with a manual valvebody (if that's an option) or an external controller.

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post #22 of 83 Old 06-11-2009, 11:02 PM
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Faceplate that 3550!
Have you really spent so much time tuning that you're ready to throw in the towel? How many passes have you made?
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post #23 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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Faceplate that 3550!
Have you really spent so much time tuning that you're ready to throw in the towel? How many passes have you made?
Passes....uh....what do you mean?

Seriously, maybe only 10-15 tops!

From the way it's looking...the only way I'm going to be able to run remotely close to an auto is by swapping out some drag shocks and running fatter...stickier tires. All it takes is a quick look at those with VERY similar combo's running easy 10's.

It's not the shifting that's the issue per say (I have no problems in that area), but it's how hard a manual shocks the tires. With more track time I could absolutely get the launch down (my best 60' is only a 1.77 ), but honestly....I just don't have the patience or time anymore to run down the track another 50 times to do so.

My views over time have slowing changed in regards to the stang. If it was still my daily driver I wouldn't be considering this...as I really won't drive an auto for that purpose. It has slowly been delegated to weekend warrior status with only the occasional drive in to work. In the end...I very well may regret the swap, but from my understanding it's just the way to go with higher horsepower levels...and let's face it, most of us don't tune down to achieve lower horsepower levels when we want to go faster.
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post #24 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 08:04 AM
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Are you running a full slick and heating them up properly?
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post #25 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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Are you running a full slick and heating them up properly?
Nope...and I don't really plan on running a full slick. This is not something I want to trailer to the track, nor something I wan't to swap tires out on a regular basis.
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post #26 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 08:37 AM
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If it is weekend warrior status then I do not understand the desire for OD. Probably because I come from a time when almost all cars we could drive as kids lacked OD completely.

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post #27 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 08:42 AM
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I have a built AOD. With the price of the converter and a friend building it I have over 2500 in it. I works well but doesn't have a transbrake. If I had it to do over I would go glide or turbo 400 and a 3.08 gear. Cheapest way out. Racers have that stuff forsale cheap.
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post #28 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 08:46 AM
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Just wondering, did you ever use a two step with it... Sorry I can't remember if you did or not... I'm durrrrr.
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post #29 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 08:49 AM
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If I had it to do over I would go glide or turbo 400 and a 3.08 gear. Cheapest way out. Racers have that stuff forsale cheap.
This is what I would do for a weekend warrior, I'd maybe even consider a C6 even though they eat some serious power. Reason I might consider one is simply because of the cost. At one time I did a C6 with a nice converter and transbrake years ago and my total investment was well under $2k for it and getting it into the car.

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post #30 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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If it is weekend warrior status then I do not understand the desire for OD. Probably because I come from a time when almost all cars we could drive as kids lacked OD completely.
Even with a weekend warrior status I still drive quite a bit on the freeway. If I want to go to any of the local cruises I'm looking at a 30 mile freeway drive (one way) each time....in any direction. When I wan't to go to the track I'll typically drive it to work first (35 miles) and then to the track (another 40 miles) and then home (another 35 miles). If I wan't to hang out with family...that's a 30 mile one-way trip.

As you can see, even with a weekend warrior status I will quite often still have a need (or use) for an O.D. gear.

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Just wondering, did you ever use a two step with it... Sorry I can't remember if you did or not... I'm durrrrr.
I did…although it doesn’t work properly using the stock TFI (it can only retard back to 10* total). When I swap over to ls2 coils it should work correct however.



The more I think about it….the more I’m liking the idea of a 4r70w setup. It looks like megasquirt was going to release a GPIO board to control tranny’s....and if so that would likely be the cheapest route to take. While it may not be a ready to go race setup….it would likely be a reliable ready to go setup that can handle a hell of a lot more power than my 3550 could….for a fraction of the price.

I’ll do some more searching on the subject, but what all is required to drop a 4r70w in? I’d obviously need a flexplate, bolts, a TV cable (unless I decide to go with a manual VB setup), auto pedal assembly and some type of aftermarket shifter. What else? Does the manual tranny driveshaft work? Will I need a new x-member and tranny mount? Is there anything else require to plop that particular (or any other) tranny in that I’m missing?
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post #31 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 09:12 AM
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Even with a weekend warrior status I still drive quite a bit on the freeway. If I want to go to any of the local cruises I'm looking at a 30 mile freeway drive (one way) each time....in any direction. When I wan't to go to the track I'll typically drive it to work first (35 miles) and then to the track (another 40 miles) and then home (another 35 miles). If I wan't to hang out with family...that's a 30 mile one-way trip.

As you can see, even with a weekend warrior status I will quite often still have a need (or use) for an O.D. gear.
From what you just described, no I do not see a need or use for OD gear. Only use I could think of would be to save some gas but then you end up paying a premium to have a strong OD transmission over a strong non-OD transmission. It would take a LOT of weekends like you just described to offset that cost to the point of actually saving some money. Again though I come from a time when TH400s, glides, C4s, C6s and so on were factory transmissions so when we built up our cars we drove around still with those transmissions and I have been someone who for most of my driving life has always driving over 70 miles a day.

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post #32 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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From what you just described, no I do not see a need or use for OD gear. Only use I could think of would be to save some gas but then you end up paying a premium to have a strong OD transmission over a strong non-OD transmission. It would take a LOT of weekends like you just described to offset that cost to the point of actually saving some money. Again though I come from a time when TH400s, glides, C4s, C6s and so on were factory transmissions so when we built up our cars we drove around still with those transmissions and I have been someone who for most of my driving life has always driving over 70 miles a day.
So what exactly is the price difference were talking about between something like a budget TH400 and a budget 4r70w? Are they both fairly direct drop-ins?

I can say without a doubt…driving in 4th gear currently on the freeway @ 75mph+ is NOT fun. Not only is it LOUD, but it is fairly unpleasant. Could I slow down to 60 or 65mph on the freeway? For sure I could…but I really don’t want to. This is obviously something I’ll have to make a decision on sometime in the near future….so please, the more opinions/suggestions the better!
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post #33 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 09:51 AM
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I do not know the cost differences now days but I do know it used to be substantial back when I first did a manual to auto conversion.

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post #34 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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I do not know the cost differences now days but I do know it used to be substantial back when I first did a manual to auto conversion.
So where does the cost savings come from? I know I can pick up a low mileage 4r70w for cheap….and get some fairly heafty discounts by buying a used manual VB or Baumannator (or may something with megasquirt). If I went with a used converter as well….I could have a tranny that could possibly be reliable for my current needs. I know it would be at it’s horsepower limits without upgrades…but those could come later, as until I get a reliable block I won’t be pushing much more power through the stocker.
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post #35 of 83 Old 06-12-2009, 10:15 AM
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With a stock block and the power limits you could go with, a used C4 that is already built and then probably comes with a converter and maybe even shifter. I believe your current driveshaft will work with it but maybe I am wrong on that but regardless will it work without mods with the 4r70w? Really though you could just get a used stock C4 and rebuild it and save probably even more.

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