Twin turbo 5.0L - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Exclamation Twin turbo 5.0L

So I bought a twin turbo kit, it is two T4 turbos with a custom STS style setup.
Im putting it on a stock 1988 speed density 5.0L that is healthy with a lil over 100,000 miles. 5 speed. Will I have to change it to mass air for it to work or no?

to start, im going to put 3 psi on the engine, (another backup motor is being built now)

will the stock longblock handle even 3psi at all? anyone have any experience with this? thanks

and what is the best/cheapest way to tune the car...software/hardware? thanks

89carb289 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:30 PM
Registered User
 
OWENMUSTANG's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (22)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: REDFORD,MI
Posts: 2,553
I don't believe you have to convert to mass air.. do need a one way check valve for the map sensor however..

3lbs of boost doesn't seem worth the trouble.....even turbo boost..

Never seen a STS system for a fox..

STS should get the flaming started soon.....


93 notch, 5 speed black on black
stg3. bbk headers,373's,vortech sq, snow kit,3g alt, 255 intank,afr165's,b-21, tmoss ported rpm
OWENMUSTANG is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:35 PM
Registered User
 
90 LX TC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (53)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Stafford,VA
Posts: 1,899
speed density will work but you already have some $$ tied into a turbo kit..i did my swap for maybe 200 dollars and it was the best thing i did. A tuner is gonna want you to do MA anyway....3psi,not a problem stock block is good to 400-500hp...good luck finding a waste gate with a spring that low...most go to 5psi as a min. your gonna need 42lb injectors atleast because your gonna want to crank the boost up higher and higher thats just how it works..my 2.3T started out as a 10PSI car and is currently running 22 and being bumped to 28psi shortly...

90 LX Fully Built 2.3T88GT 302400RWHP/402RWTQ
Scoupe89 is a idiot/doesnt know what the hell he is selling. Buyer beware!
90 LX TC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:38 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Posts: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 LX TC View Post
speed density will work but you already have some $$ tied into a turbo kit..i did my swap for maybe 200 dollars and it was the best thing i did. A tuner is gonna want you to do MA anyway....3psi,not a problem stock block is good to 400-500hp...good luck finding a waste gate with a spring that low...most go to 5psi as a min. your gonna need 42lb injectors atleast because your gonna want to crank the boost up higher and higher thats just how it works..my 2.3T started out as a 10PSI car and is currently running 22 and being bumped to 28psi shortly...

i thought 6lbs was the lowest. but i agree with everything else said. upgrade your fuel pump and injectors. definitely do a mass air conversion, tuning speed density is a PIA from what everyone says.
ThunderKat is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:44 PM
Registered User
 
90 LX TC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (53)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Stafford,VA
Posts: 1,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderKat View Post
i thought 6lbs was the lowest. but i agree with everything else said. upgrade your fuel pump and injectors. definitely do a mass air conversion, tuning speed density is a PIA from what everyone says.
Depends on the WG on mine i could choose 6 or 8 psi as a max...i chose 8 because i knew i would never run off the spring....

90 LX Fully Built 2.3T88GT 302400RWHP/402RWTQ
Scoupe89 is a idiot/doesnt know what the hell he is selling. Buyer beware!
90 LX TC is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 LX TC View Post
speed density will work but you already have some $$ tied into a turbo kit..i did my swap for maybe 200 dollars and it was the best thing i did. A tuner is gonna want you to do MA anyway....3psi,not a problem stock block is good to 400-500hp...good luck finding a waste gate with a spring that low...most go to 5psi as a min. your gonna need 42lb injectors atleast because your gonna want to crank the boost up higher and higher thats just how it works..my 2.3T started out as a 10PSI car and is currently running 22 and being bumped to 28psi shortly...
the site wont let me post pics, it is a complete setup with a 3lb spring to start, boost controller and gauges
I have a 255 fuel pump in the car already, but I do need injectors
will a 255 even support 42s?
89carb289 is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG View Post
I don't believe you have to convert to mass air.. do need a one way check valve for the map sensor however..

3lbs of boost doesn't seem worth the trouble.....even turbo boost..

Never seen a STS system for a fox..

STS should get the flaming started soon.....
the previous owner got a 60rwhp gain on a stock 5.0L with 3.5psi
I want to do 8psi when my bottom end is tight (with rebuild)
89carb289 is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 06:03 PM
Registered User
 
90 LX TC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (53)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Stafford,VA
Posts: 1,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89carb289 View Post
the previous owner got a 60rwhp gain on a stock 5.0L with 3.5psi
I want to do 8psi when my bottom end is tight (with rebuild)
id run 8psi from the get go...255 will support 42lb injectors..

90 LX Fully Built 2.3T88GT 302400RWHP/402RWTQ
Scoupe89 is a idiot/doesnt know what the hell he is selling. Buyer beware!
90 LX TC is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 06:07 PM
Registered User
 
OWENMUSTANG's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (22)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: REDFORD,MI
Posts: 2,553
If your engine is in good shape, I'd go 7-8 psi.. that 60HP is better than a S/C would give you for the same # but still, for 60HP you could get that out of a set of 165's and only be out less than 1500 bucks total..

As for your fuel.. the intank 255 is fine. just use a inline 255 too (or a BAP).. If your going to stay with the stock block, 42's will keep you safe in that range.

Post pics of this kit....this i got to see....

93 notch, 5 speed black on black
stg3. bbk headers,373's,vortech sq, snow kit,3g alt, 255 intank,afr165's,b-21, tmoss ported rpm
OWENMUSTANG is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG View Post
If your engine is in good shape, I'd go 7-8 psi.. that 60HP is better than a S/C would give you for the same # but still, for 60HP you could get that out of a set of 165's and only be out less than 1500 bucks total..

As for your fuel.. the intank 255 is fine. just use a inline 255 too (or a BAP).. If your going to stay with the stock block, 42's will keep you safe in that range.

Post pics of this kit....this i got to see....
actually I was going to buy the AFRs, but then I bought TT kit for 1200 bucks, and the power potential with even a stock heads can split the engine...

89carb289 is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG View Post
If your engine is in good shape, I'd go 7-8 psi.. that 60HP is better than a S/C would give you for the same # but still, for 60HP you could get that out of a set of 165's and only be out less than 1500 bucks total..

As for your fuel.. the intank 255 is fine. just use a inline 255 too (or a BAP).. If your going to stay with the stock block, 42's will keep you safe in that range.

Post pics of this kit....this i got to see....
give me your email and i'll send them to you. the forum rules wont let me post the pictures
89carb289 is offline  
post #12 of 21 Old 03-13-2008, 07:28 PM
Registered User
 
millhouse's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Simpsonville, SC
Posts: 3,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89carb289 View Post
So I bought a twin turbo kit, it is two T4 turbos with a custom STS style setup.
Im putting it on a stock 1988 speed density 5.0L that is healthy with a lil over 100,000 miles. 5 speed. Will I have to change it to mass air for it to work or no?

to start, im going to put 3 psi on the engine, (another backup motor is being built now)

will the stock longblock handle even 3psi at all? anyone have any experience with this? thanks

and what is the best/cheapest way to tune the car...software/hardware? thanks
I see a few issues with this. First off is the fact that you are using twin T4's on a stock 5.0l engine. The sheer nature of an STS setup makes them prone to having a bit of lag...and when you couple that with overly large turbo's your looking at a poor powerband. A single T4 is more than adequate for most stock 5.0l mustangs.

I also see an issue with 3psi. While the wastegate may be set to open at 3psi, it is likely not going to be able to bypass the amount of exhaust that it will be seeing...and you'll likely get boost creep with higher loads. This is extremely difficult to tune around.

I myself am not a big fan of STS setups. They were intended for vehicles that have no room for packaging a turbo setup...and inherently are less effecient than a standard setup. Couple that with the fact that the 5.0l mustang has less than ample room....and you are likely to have some major ground clearance issues.

2016 Ruby Red Mustang GT PP
Prior Cars
1989 Mustang Notch - Twin Turbo - 500RWHP, 1996 Mustang Cobra, 1994 Mustang GT Vert - 408w
millhouse is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 03-14-2008, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
I see a few issues with this. First off is the fact that you are using twin T4's on a stock 5.0l engine. The sheer nature of an STS setup makes them prone to having a bit of lag...and when you couple that with overly large turbo's your looking at a poor powerband. A single T4 is more than adequate for most stock 5.0l mustangs.

I also see an issue with 3psi. While the wastegate may be set to open at 3psi, it is likely not going to be able to bypass the amount of exhaust that it will be seeing...and you'll likely get boost creep with higher loads. This is extremely difficult to tune around.

I myself am not a big fan of STS setups. They were intended for vehicles that have no room for packaging a turbo setup...and inherently are less effecient than a standard setup. Couple that with the fact that the 5.0l mustang has less than ample room....and you are likely to have some major ground clearance issues.
im not planning to tune it with 3psi as it will only be temporary. Im building a quality bottom end to put 8psi or more on

do you know what tunning devices I should buy? would a wideband power commander work? thanks
89carb289 is offline  
post #14 of 21 Old 03-14-2008, 01:57 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
I forgot to mention that the car made 208rwhp by 4500rpm and 282rwtq by 3200rpm and it has a 1985 four banger T5 which makes it feel like it has a gear
89carb289 is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 03-14-2008, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
I see a few issues with this. First off is the fact that you are using twin T4's on a stock 5.0l engine. The sheer nature of an STS setup makes them prone to having a bit of lag...and when you couple that with overly large turbo's your looking at a poor powerband. A single T4 is more than adequate for most stock 5.0l mustangs.

I also see an issue with 3psi. While the wastegate may be set to open at 3psi, it is likely not going to be able to bypass the amount of exhaust that it will be seeing...and you'll likely get boost creep with higher loads. This is extremely difficult to tune around.

I myself am not a big fan of STS setups. They were intended for vehicles that have no room for packaging a turbo setup...and inherently are less effecient than a standard setup. Couple that with the fact that the 5.0l mustang has less than ample room....and you are likely to have some major ground clearance issues.
I also have a edelbrock performer upper/lower attached to bbk 70mm throttle body lying around, ready to drop in, is it worth bolting onto the stock motor? I bolted it up to my last stock moto without turbos, it made no difference
89carb289 is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 03-14-2008, 07:23 AM
Registered User
 
millhouse's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Simpsonville, SC
Posts: 3,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89carb289 View Post
im not planning to tune it with 3psi as it will only be temporary. Im building a quality bottom end to put 8psi or more on

do you know what tunning devices I should buy? would a wideband power commander work? thanks
If it is temporary, I would not drive WOT on street like that. All it would take is a small amount of boost creep and you can kiss your head gaskets (or possibly more) goodbye.

As far as tuning goes, your going to either have to get a custom dyno tune done or pick up a piggy back (tweecer, pms etc. ) or a standalone (Megasquirt, Fast etc.) as well as a wideband 02 sensor. In the short run the custom dyno tune is going to probably be cheaper….but if you want to learn how to tune yourself, or tweak your tune for bigger changes down the road then you may want to look into the latter option. Simply buying a wideband will do nothing except tell you what your AFR's are.

On to the bottom end. I would strongly recommend against putting a quality bottom end into a stock 5.0l block while running forced induction unless absolutely necessary. If at all possible, stick with the stock rotating assembly and do a rebuild with what you have. If you haven't already heard it before, the stock block itself is the weak point….and they tend to split from the mains up to the lifter valley when pushed beyond their limit. When this happens, its quite possible it will take the rotating assembly out with it….so you can kiss that goodbye too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89carb289 View Post
I forgot to mention that the car made 208rwhp by 4500rpm and 282rwtq by 3200rpm and it has a 1985 four banger T5 which makes it feel like it has a gear
With a turbo setup you want less gear, not more. A typical good starting gear is 3.27's out back when combined with a 26" tire. It helps load the turbo's quicker (even more crucial if you have oversized turbo's) and will allow you to stay in your powerband a bit longer. That 4 banger tranny is going to need to get a serious upgrade. Even the stock 5.0 tranny's are not up to the task of the amount of horsepower and torque a turbo setup puts out….and it will fail on you at some point in time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 89carb289 View Post
I also have a edelbrock performer upper/lower attached to bbk 70mm throttle body lying around, ready to drop in, is it worth bolting onto the stock motor? I bolted it up to my last stock moto without turbos, it made no difference
Absolutely put them on. While the stock throttle body is likely to not be a restriction with your setup, I'd put it on regardless. The upper/lower will allow you to produce more power with lower boost levels….and the stock lower is a big ole butt plug in the airflow between the turbo's and the engine.

What sized turbo's are you putting on?
millhouse is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old 03-16-2008, 02:48 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
If it is temporary, I would not drive WOT on street like that. All it would take is a small amount of boost creep and you can kiss your head gaskets (or possibly more) goodbye.

As far as tuning goes, your going to either have to get a custom dyno tune done or pick up a piggy back (tweecer, pms etc. ) or a standalone (Megasquirt, Fast etc.) as well as a wideband 02 sensor. In the short run the custom dyno tune is going to probably be cheaper….but if you want to learn how to tune yourself, or tweak your tune for bigger changes down the road then you may want to look into the latter option. Simply buying a wideband will do nothing except tell you what your AFR's are.

On to the bottom end. I would strongly recommend against putting a quality bottom end into a stock 5.0l block while running forced induction unless absolutely necessary. If at all possible, stick with the stock rotating assembly and do a rebuild with what you have. If you haven't already heard it before, the stock block itself is the weak point….and they tend to split from the mains up to the lifter valley when pushed beyond their limit. When this happens, its quite possible it will take the rotating assembly out with it….so you can kiss that goodbye too.



With a turbo setup you want less gear, not more. A typical good starting gear is 3.27's out back when combined with a 26" tire. It helps load the turbo's quicker (even more crucial if you have oversized turbo's) and will allow you to stay in your powerband a bit longer. That 4 banger tranny is going to need to get a serious upgrade. Even the stock 5.0 tranny's are not up to the task of the amount of horsepower and torque a turbo setup puts out….and it will fail on you at some point in time.



Absolutely put them on. While the stock throttle body is likely to not be a restriction with your setup, I'd put it on regardless. The upper/lower will allow you to produce more power with lower boost levels….and the stock lower is a big ole butt plug in the airflow between the turbo's and the engine.

What sized turbo's are you putting on?
I have a backup T5 and 5.0L complete engine with 100 000miles
im just worried the engine will blow up/hg right away. I am looking for tuning devices around, want to make sure the tune is on...Assuming it is, how much boost can I run? the previous owner says at 12psi tuned over 120mph on a stock 5.0L...if it can handle it....

Last edited by 89carb289; 03-16-2008 at 03:19 AM.
89carb289 is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 03-16-2008, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wasaga Beach, Ontario
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by millhouse View Post
If it is temporary, I would not drive WOT on street like that. All it would take is a small amount of boost creep and you can kiss your head gaskets (or possibly more) goodbye.

As far as tuning goes, your going to either have to get a custom dyno tune done or pick up a piggy back (tweecer, pms etc. ) or a standalone (Megasquirt, Fast etc.) as well as a wideband 02 sensor. In the short run the custom dyno tune is going to probably be cheaper….but if you want to learn how to tune yourself, or tweak your tune for bigger changes down the road then you may want to look into the latter option. Simply buying a wideband will do nothing except tell you what your AFR's are.

On to the bottom end. I would strongly recommend against putting a quality bottom end into a stock 5.0l block while running forced induction unless absolutely necessary. If at all possible, stick with the stock rotating assembly and do a rebuild with what you have. If you haven't already heard it before, the stock block itself is the weak point….and they tend to split from the mains up to the lifter valley when pushed beyond their limit. When this happens, its quite possible it will take the rotating assembly out with it….so you can kiss that goodbye too.



With a turbo setup you want less gear, not more. A typical good starting gear is 3.27's out back when combined with a 26" tire. It helps load the turbo's quicker (even more crucial if you have oversized turbo's) and will allow you to stay in your powerband a bit longer. That 4 banger tranny is going to need to get a serious upgrade. Even the stock 5.0 tranny's are not up to the task of the amount of horsepower and torque a turbo setup puts out….and it will fail on you at some point in time.



Absolutely put them on. While the stock throttle body is likely to not be a restriction with your setup, I'd put it on regardless. The upper/lower will allow you to produce more power with lower boost levels….and the stock lower is a big ole butt plug in the airflow between the turbo's and the engine.

What sized turbo's are you putting on?
Twin Turbo (2.2 Hotside T4 cold, 35 lbs/min) K&N airfilters and pre-charger bags, bolts up to mac catted H pipe with mac longtubes, stainless tig welded Hot side, all flanges are stainless done on a watercutter, Tial 44mm wastegate, 3" stainless tailpipes

The coldside is all tig welded thin wall aluminium (for heat dissipation) and enters the engine bay where fuelie cars take they're air from. Blow off sits in the fender
The wastegate can hold a 302 down to 3.5 lbs if desired and the oil is pumped backed to the front via a surflo pump modified for oil.
89carb289 is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 03-20-2008, 11:46 AM
Registered User
 
thadude's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,661
post some pics! open a free photobucket account and F*****n upload them shats. its not hard if you can sign up for this forum you can photobucket.
thadude is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 03-20-2008, 01:48 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Springfield VA
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89carb289 View Post
give me your email and i'll send them to you. the forum rules wont let me post the pictures
I pm'd you my email. Send me the photos or links to the photos, and i'll post it up for you.

92 LX Coupe
94 Cobra- Sold
SxyStang is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 03-20-2008, 02:53 PM
Registered User
 
90 LX TC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (53)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Stafford,VA
Posts: 1,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadude View Post
post some pics! open a free photobucket account and F*****n upload them shats. its not hard if you can sign up for this forum you can photobucket.
Im sure he will rush to get them up there for you asap O Great one!!!

90 LX Fully Built 2.3T88GT 302400RWHP/402RWTQ
Scoupe89 is a idiot/doesnt know what the hell he is selling. Buyer beware!
90 LX TC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome