turbo kit with air to water intercooler? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 03-03-2008, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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turbo kit with air to water intercooler?

I'm new to the mustang thing. I had a turbo honda with a big air to air intercooler blocking the rad. and it overheated alot. So my is if I turbo my 89 mustang with a air to water cooler would work as good as a air to air? Because it gets really hot in Oklahoma.

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post #2 of 17 Old 03-04-2008, 04:16 PM
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post #3 of 17 Old 03-04-2008, 05:05 PM
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The kit I bought has an a/a i/c, so that's what I'll be running for now, but I plan on going a/w in the near future. I've been looking at stuff like this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Heat-...spagenameZWDVW.

I'm not to sure of the quality of these particular kits, but it's the type of setup I want to go with. There's no need to follow the crowd.

An advantage is that if you need extra cooling for a short time, you can run a decent sized i/c reservoir (like the aftermarket units for the 03/04 Cobras), and put ice in it. It works very well.

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post #4 of 17 Old 03-04-2008, 09:12 PM
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I was originally planning an a/w intercooler with my turbo. I collected all the parts except for the core, but then stared building our house and ran out of money for toys. When I started back working on the car, I found an a/a intercooler and everything included to hook it up for really cheap, so just went that route for now. I'd still like to finish the a/w someday, since it would be great to be able to use ice water.

So far, a decent sized a/w charge cooler has been hard to find. Almost all have been way too big to fit under the hood without alot of cutting...especially the one in that Ebay link. A Vortech Aftercooler seems just about right, but out of my budget right now.

Mike
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post #5 of 17 Old 03-04-2008, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Y2KStangGT View Post
So far, a decent sized a/w charge cooler has been hard to find. Almost all have been way too big to fit under the hood without alot of cutting...especially the one in that Ebay link. A Vortech Aftercooler seems just about right, but out of my budget right now.
They have smaller ones. I just posted that one as an example. Check this one out... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-5-C...ayphotohosting

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post #6 of 17 Old 03-04-2008, 11:33 PM
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Yeah, that's one I was considering stuffing into the fender. A friend made one just like it for his turbo Camaro, but ended up not using it since it was way too small when he upgraded his turbo (~100mm). He let me try to fit it in my car before he sold it. It is much bigger than it seems, especially once you hold it under the hood with everything else in place. That 2nd Ebay one @ 12"x12.5"x4.5" is still pretty big, especially after you add the coolant hoses and turbo plumbing bends.

Make a cardboard mockup with those dimensions. Then try to fit it under the hood, along with the turbo and mockup coolant tank. I wasn't willing to mount it inside the cowl or behind the dash, or anywhere inside the car like some I've seen.

I think I'd rather have the inlet and outlet of the intercooler facing opposite directions instead of u-shaped and try to fit the unit vertically completely behind the fender. Fitting it there is probably wishful thinking too.

Which is why I went with the tried and true a/a for now instead of delaying driving my car or throwing money around trying to find an a/w that will meet my needs. Once it warms up a little, I might go out and screw around with some cardboard and PVC for the heck of it.

Mike
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post #7 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 12:56 AM
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It sounds like you and me are in the same boat. I have an a/a, so I'm going with it for now. The fender is the spot I was thinking of too. That's a great idea about mocking up a cardboard intercooler. I've got plenty of cardboard around, and I'm going to give that a shot.
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post #8 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by snipe656 View Post
Just get an air-to-air like 99.9% of all the other turdbo Mustangs out there.
+1

Seriously folks, an air to air setup is going to support more than enough horsepower to split a stock 5.0 block (which I'm assuming he's running). Hell, even during 90*+ temps this past summer my IAT's never got much above 100* during WOT with my 12x24x3 fmic. Keep in mind too, this is with the stock lx front facia that exposes very little of the intercooler itself to incoming air.

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post #9 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 09:47 AM
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I already have a running/driving car with the a/a. Everything works great as is, just wanted to try something different...if I ever get the free time.

Mike
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post #10 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 11:47 AM
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air/water intercoolers are strictly for the track.

They provide greater cooling at first, but after the water gets
hot in them its no longer an intercooler. It's a heat sink

At the track this is no big deal, just drain it and add more ice.
On the street ..... what are you going to do? carry bags of ice in
a cooler in the trunk and refill the intercooler every 30mins to 1hr ???


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post #11 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 12:30 PM
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A friend has a a/w with a heat exchanger to pull heat out of the water before being recycled into the intercooler. His air temps driving around and making a blast here and there were slightly lower than the a/a set up. Then at the track the iced water lead to much cooler air temps. I am not saying everyone would have the same results. But just like the 03/04 Cobras a heat exchanger for the fluid can help a lot in a street application.

I plan to use a a/w intercooler in my build as well. With the tank and large Afco 03/04 Cobra heat exchanger for the fluid I think it will be fine. Heck can't be worse than my old un-intercooled Vortech set up. lol

We may also put the a/w intercooler in the inner fender. There are a couple like that on The Turbo Forums. Seems to be a nice out of sight solution. Although the extra weight in front of the wheels kind of sucks.

Mike 1986 Capri street car w/ a/c, p/s & p/w
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post #12 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 331merc View Post
A friend has a a/w with a heat exchanger to pull heat out of the water before being recycled into the intercooler. His air temps driving around and making a blast here and there were slightly lower than the a/a set up. Then at the track the iced water lead to much cooler air temps. I am not saying everyone would have the same results. But just like the 03/04 Cobras a heat exchanger for the fluid can help a lot in a street application.

I plan to use a a/w intercooler in my build as well. With the tank and large Afco 03/04 Cobra heat exchanger for the fluid I think it will be fine. Heck can't be worse than my old un-intercooled Vortech set up. lol

We may also put the a/w intercooler in the inner fender. There are a couple like that on The Turbo Forums. Seems to be a nice out of sight solution. Although the extra weight in front of the wheels kind of sucks.
The stock 03/04 exchanger setup from the factory was very prone to heatsoaking…especially in warmer climates and during stop and go traffic. For that very reason, one of the first upgrades seems to be the larger heat exchanger and bigger reservoir. Even then, stop and go is still a killer in regards to heatsoak. Another thing to think about is recovery time from heatsaok. In the case of a air to water setup…it is far slower than a comparable air to air. Sure, the first…second and maybe even third run may be cooler than an air to air setup. Once you start getting past that…or if your in stop and go traffic, a properly sized air to air setup is going to cool better. For street setups, air to air is just a better option.

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post #13 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 05:48 PM
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The intercooling system in the Cobras would get heatsoaked in a racing application, but not in a street driving application. I live in Southern California, and never had a problem with my Cobra getting over-heated. The only time it would heat-soak was at the track. I never modified my i/c system (other than replacing the coolant with distilled water and water wetter), so my solution was a bag of ice on the blower, and about an hour cooldown between runs. But, I have other buddies that have hot-lapped without issue, and without losing too much ET or trap speed. And all that was with the intercooler core sitting right over the motor in the lower intake. In this application (T/C Fox), being able to put the intercooler somewhere cooler is an advantage. Air to water intercooling is efficient on the street, and has the added advantage of extra cooling when needed. To me, that makes it better than air to air. That doesn't mean a/a is bad, but just not as good all around. IMHO, of course.

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post #14 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 331merc View Post
A friend has a a/w with a heat exchanger to pull heat out of the water before being recycled into the intercooler..
Ok, now thats an air to water to air intercooler.
There is no way that is more efficient than air to air.

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post #15 of 17 Old 03-05-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SonicFox View Post
The intercooling system in the Cobras would get heatsoaked in a racing application, but not in a street driving application. I live in Southern California, and never had a problem with my Cobra getting over-heated. The only time it would heat-soak was at the track. I never modified my i/c system (other than replacing the coolant with distilled water and water wetter), so my solution was a bag of ice on the blower, and about an hour cooldown between runs. But, I have other buddies that have hot-lapped without issue, and without losing too much ET or trap speed. And all that was with the intercooler core sitting right over the motor in the lower intake. In this application (T/C Fox), being able to put the intercooler somewhere cooler is an advantage. Air to water intercooling is efficient on the street, and has the added advantage of extra cooling when needed. To me, that makes it better than air to air. That doesn't mean a/a is bad, but just not as good all around. IMHO, of course.
It's not a matter of getting overheated...but having overheated air entering the engine (which will pull timing and hurt et's). It's most noticeable in stop and go traffic and while hot lapping at the track. While you may not have noticed it...a great many cobra owners have. This is the very reason that most factory forced induction vehicles use air to air setups rather than air to water...and the reason that those high horsepower rally cars use air to air coolers with water sprayers to further enhance the cooling characteristics.
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post #16 of 17 Old 03-06-2008, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for all the feed back guys. It looks like I'll go with a/a intercooler. What thermostat do you run on turboed daily?
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post #17 of 17 Old 03-06-2008, 02:50 PM
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thanks for all the feed back guys. It looks like I'll go with a/a intercooler. What thermostat do you run on turboed daily?
Stick with a 180-190 stat. I currently run a 190 with a cheap 3 core brass radiator and a sn95 electric fan and it stays at 195 during the summer.
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