Vortech S-Trim rebuild instructions inside - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 291 Old 04-11-2006, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Vortech S-Trim rebuild instructions inside

Here is the link to the instructions for your download needs. They were written by Stang94GT about a year ago. I've had them for a while. After talking with Dedicatated5.0 and reading the thread he posted about him rebuilding his S-Trim, we decided that we should post some instructions, along with part#'s that he has posted to provide everyone that wants to try to rebuild their own Vortech Supercharger with the info. to do so. Listed below the link is a few things that Dedicated5.0 felt should be changed, but there was no way to edit the .pdf file. Try this at your own risk, as either myself nor anyone else involved will be held responsible

http://www.iamflip.com/images/supercharger_rebuild (I recommend you save these to your hard drive, because I have a buddy of mine hosting them, and he may make a mistake and move them one day. At least until I get my own website and can host them myself)

Here's the tweek to the instructions that Dedicated5.0 wanted to add:

• When he talks about removing the compressor nut he states that it is a Left Hand Thread. That is correct for the standard-rotation blowers on 5.0s. On the reverse blowers that are on the 4.6 cars it is a regular Right Hand Thread.

• When he talks about using a “cone” to guide the shaft into the seal. That is not a bad idea, but I don’t think that it is really necessary. Using some assembly lube or oil to lube the seal and shaft should to the trick just fine. I’ve never seen a “cone” use to install oil seals before.

• When he talks about installing the compressor wheel he says that using the impact will tighten the bolt and help push it down the rest of the way. I agree, but he should have added that you need to make sure that compressor wheel is seated flush with the case. If it’s not, when you put the volute back on the compressor wheel could scrape against it.

• The seals he used are not the best for the application. The have an exposed metal case and one of them is a single-lip. Those are not the best features for sealing. The seals I used had a rubber covered case and both are a double-lip design. Much better features for sealing.

• The bearings he used for the high-speed side are incorrect. They are standard radial ball bearings. He should have used the high-speed angular contact ABEC 7 bearings that I posted in my thread.

• Lastly, he did not mention this (because he didn’t use the right bearings) that you have to note which way the high-speed bearings are situated on the shaft. They are angular contact style. That means they are designed to handle thrust loads in only one direction. That is why Vortech uses a pair of them facing opposite directions on the shaft, preloaded by the wave washer. That is the typical way that these kinds of bearings are designed to be used.

• The pictures that show the boxes that the bearings came in are reversed. Not that it really maters too much since he used the wrong bearings for the high-speed side anyway.


Here is a parts list.
Provided by Dedicated5.0

These items can be picked up from any industrial distributor (Applied Industrial Technologies, Motion Industries, Kaman, Grainger, etc…) Don't just take the first price they give you. Most of these companies will come down on price pretty easy.

Low Speed Side:

1 seal – Chicago Rawhide 9776

2 bearings – SKF 6205JEM
Alternatives are:
MRC 205S
Fafner 205K
F..A..G 6205.C3
BCA 205NC3
SNR 6205.J30
KOYO 6205C3

High Speed Side:

1 seal – Chicago Rawhide 6428

1 matched set bearings – SKF 7003CD/P4ADGA
Alternatives are:
MRC 103KRDS-BKE#7
Fafner 2MM9103WI DUL
F.A.G B7003CB.T.P4S.DUL
SNR 7003.CV.DU.J74
NTN 7003CT1GD2/GNP4
NSK 7003CTYDULP4


Below stated by Dedicated5.0:

I did not replace the o-ring that seals the case. It was in good shape so I soaked it in tranny fluid to swell it a little. Any of the distributors above should be able to match it for you. I would recommend using a brown Viton o-ring instead of the Buna one vortech uses. Viton is a higher temp material that would most likely hold up better than the standard Buna

Enjoy!

I want to say thanks to Dedicated5.0 and Stang94GT for this great info. they have provided, and thanks to my buddy oleflippy for hosting the link.


Last edited by NotoriousNotch; 04-12-2006 at 04:16 PM.
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post #2 of 291 Old 04-11-2006, 02:13 PM
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Thanks jbj302.


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post #3 of 291 Old 04-11-2006, 03:56 PM
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thanks for all the effort guys!
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post #4 of 291 Old 04-11-2006, 04:17 PM
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Thanks dedicated5.0 and jbj302! You guys are a real asset to the mustang community.
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post #5 of 291 Old 04-11-2006, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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No problem. I'll do what I can to help, since I'm probably needing more help than I'm giving.
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post #6 of 291 Old 04-11-2006, 06:23 PM
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Thanks guys. I agree with jbj302, I usually need more help than I can give.

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post #7 of 291 Old 04-14-2006, 03:50 AM
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I'll edit the file and send it to Dedicated when I get a chance, probably in the next week or so. I've had about 4000 miles or so since the blower rebuild and so far no problems.

I used the "cone" to install the seal because it is spring loaded. Using only lube may cause the seal to bend or fold during installation. In fact, that's what I did when I put my blower back together the first time. After discovering that I had screwed the ID of the seal, I re-used the original seal with the installation sleeve.

If I recall correctly, the seals I used were identical (visually) to the seals that came out of the blower. Dedicated's seals may be better but I have no leakage issues to date. The leak I had was a misdiagnosed leak from my oil feed line.

I'm not in the bearing business so I don't know better. In what direction should the thrust bearings be situated? If anyone has some pics of these bearings and wouldn't mind emailing them to me I'll incorporate them into my writeup.

Curious, why would you use thrust bearings and then position them opposite of each other? I would think that you would experience thrust in only one direction and that the bearings would then be placed in the same direction. The only thrust loading that the high speed shaft sees is from the compressor wheel. On the low speed side, it would be from the belt. Does the low speed not use a thrust bearing as well?

The pics for the bearings are correctly labeled, text goes with the pics above them =P

If anyone's done a teardown of an SQ or of the 4.6l blower I'd appreciate some pics too. My email is [email protected].

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post #8 of 291 Old 04-14-2006, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang94GT
I'll edit the file and send it to Dedicated when I get a chance, probably in the next week or so. I've had about 4000 miles or so since the blower rebuild and so far no problems.

I used the "cone" to install the seal because it is spring loaded. Using only lube may cause the seal to bend or fold during installation. In fact, that's what I did when I put my blower back together the first time. After discovering that I had screwed the ID of the seal, I re-used the original seal with the installation sleeve.

If I recall correctly, the seals I used were identical (visually) to the seals that came out of the blower. Dedicated's seals may be better but I have no leakage issues to date. The leak I had was a misdiagnosed leak from my oil feed line.

I'm not in the bearing business so I don't know better. In what direction should the thrust bearings be situated? If anyone has some pics of these bearings and wouldn't mind emailing them to me I'll incorporate them into my writeup.

Curious, why would you use thrust bearings and then position them opposite of each other? I would think that you would experience thrust in only one direction and that the bearings would then be placed in the same direction. The only thrust loading that the high speed shaft sees is from the compressor wheel. On the low speed side, it would be from the belt. Does the low speed not use a thrust bearing as well?

The pics for the bearings are correctly labeled, text goes with the pics above them =P

If anyone's done a teardown of an SQ or of the 4.6l blower I'd appreciate some pics too. My email is [email protected].
I have the old high-speed bearings that I removed. I'll get some pics this weekend. They are clearly marked with part numbers that indicate an ABEC 7 precision angular contact bearing. They are also marked on one side with the word "thrust" This tells you which direction the bearing is designed to take thrust loads (note that all brands don’t bother to mark them because they assume that the installer knows what they are doing). These bearings are rated for 60,000 to 80,000 rpm (depending on the brand) with oil lubrication.

A single angular contact bearing cannot take any radial load at all. That is why they are mounted in pairs facing in opposite directions (sometimes facing each other, sometimes facing away from each other). When assembled in this fashion, together a pair will handle a significant amount of radial load plus the high thrust loads they are designed for. Regardless of what I say here, make sure you note the orientation of them on the shaft before they are removed so the new bearings can be installed correctly.

According to the SKF catalog the 6003JEM bearings that you used on the high-speed side are only rated for 18,000 max rpm with oil lubrication. It is designed to primarily take radial loads with only a small amount of thrust load allowed. That is why they are called “Radial” bearings. They are definitely not designed for a high-speed blower shaft spinning to 50,000 rpm!

The 6003JEM that you used might last a while on an occasional use car, or even a daily driver that never sees more that 3500-4000 rpm. However, they are on borrowed time regardless of how the car is driven. I would yank those bearings out of there quick!

The low-speed side of the blower will see much lower speeds and mostly radial loads from the belt pulling down on the pulley. The high-speed side will see a combination of thrust and radial loads. The radial load come from the gears trying to push apart from each other. The thrust loads come from the impeller trying to push it’s way out the side of the blower case.

I don’t like the seals you used for three reasons. First, they have an exposed metal case that can rust. The seals I used have a rubber-covered case that is sealed from the elements. Second, they put a green colored coating on the OD that is designed to scrape off when you install them to help seal against the housing. I wouldn’t want any of the crap to flake off during installation and get into the blower. Third, one of the seals you used has only a single lip for sealing against the shaft. I much prefer the double lip designs that seal much better.

I think you did a good job on your write-up. The pics are good and I love the drawings you did, they really look great. I just wanted to let everyone know that there were a few mistakes that needed to be corrected. Please don’t take any of this personally. I know folks who have been in the industry for years that still don’t get it.

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post #9 of 291 Old 04-14-2006, 11:11 AM
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First off, no offense taken. I welcome the education. I went through my teardown pics and noticed one where the bearing clearly states "THRUST" on it as well. I looked at bearings many years ago and it's starting to slowly come back to me. Your reasoning for matched thrust bearings sounds familiar.

Sounds to me like I'll have to get in line for one of these bearing kits you're putting together.

Cam
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post #10 of 291 Old 04-14-2006, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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this is what I like to see. Brilliant minds working together. If you two work out the details, then I'll get the link replaced with the new blue-printed instructions that Stang94GT is going to edit the old ones with. Thanks guys for your time and work.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang94GT
First off, no offense taken. I welcome the education. I went through my teardown pics and noticed one where the bearing clearly states "THRUST" on it as well. I looked at bearings many years ago and it's starting to slowly come back to me. Your reasoning for matched thrust bearings sounds familiar.

Sounds to me like I'll have to get in line for one of these bearing kits you're putting together.
Cool, glad to hear it. It's great working with folks who have an open mind. I sent you a PM with some additional info. Let me know if you want a hand editing the instructions. I'd be happy to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbj302
this is what I like to see. Brilliant minds working together. If you two work out the details, then I'll get the link replaced with the new blue-printed instructions that Stang94GT is going to edit the old ones with. Thanks guys for your time and work.
Brilliant??? I know you're not talking about me!

Thanks again for getting that hosted. Hopefully we'll have a revised copy ready soon.

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post #12 of 291 Old 04-15-2006, 01:12 AM
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I'll post up a new update once I get your bearings and rebuild the blower with the revised instructions. If anyone has pictures for the 4.6l blower that would be cool to include as well.

Thanks!

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post #13 of 291 Old 05-24-2006, 08:53 PM
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site freezes

Site freezes when i go to it.

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post #14 of 291 Old 05-24-2006, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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I'm checking with my buddy that is hosting the link to see whats going on with it.
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post #15 of 291 Old 05-24-2006, 10:12 PM
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WOW... I know a lot of work went into this soo......thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

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thanks for all the info guy's!!! does this rebuild refer to the standard rebuild/berings or the heavy duty units designed to run cog's?

thanks,
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post #17 of 291 Old 05-25-2006, 12:17 AM
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I haven't had a chance to revise the instructions yet. Be sure you get the right bearings!

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working now

Works great now, An THANK YOU

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post #19 of 291 Old 05-25-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbj302
Here is the link to the instructions for your download needs. They were written by Stang94GT about a year ago...
Yikes!

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post #20 of 291 Old 05-25-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbj302
2 bearings – SKF 6205JEM
Without looking too deep into this...SKF 6205 Bearings according to my SKF catalog have speed ratings of 12,000 - 21,000 rpm...our blowers spin around 50,000 rpm...watch out!

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Last edited by Forced; 05-25-2006 at 04:11 PM.
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post #21 of 291 Old 05-26-2006, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
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Yikes!
How about offering some constructive criticism instead of being a smartass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced
Without looking too deep into this...SKF 6205 Bearings according to my SKF catalog have speed ratings of 12,000 - 21,000 rpm...our blowers spin around 50,000 rpm...watch out!
That bearing is for the low-speed input side. It is the exact same bearing that Vortech uses. It is the high-speed side that spins to 50,000 rpm. But you knew that already didn’t you? Seems to me that you are just trying to freak people out and make them think that Vortech is the only people can work on these blowers.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated5.0
How about offering some constructive criticism instead of being a smartass.

That bearing is for the low-speed input side. It is the exact same bearing that Vortech uses. It is the high-speed side that spins to 50,000 rpm. But you knew that already didn’t you? Seems to me that you are just trying to freak people out and make them think that Vortech is the only people can work on these blowers.
That bearing is NOT the same one that we use! The bearings we use are made for us...Like I said in the other post about this topic...you cannot purchase the bearings and seals that we use. If these work for you and do not cause future failures, then congrats. The blower is your property you can do with it as you wish. What I don't like is when they get rebuilt incorrectly and fail again. This leads to a "My Vortech Broke Again" mentality. This is not good for us.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced
That bearing is NOT the same one that we use! The bearings we use are made for us...Like I said in the other post about this topic...you cannot purchase the bearings and seals that we use. If these work for you and do not cause future failures, then congrats. The blower is your property you can do with it as you wish. What I don't like is when they get rebuilt incorrectly and fail again. This leads to a "My Vortech Broke Again" mentality. This is not good for us.
I hear what your saying. But when I pull bearings out of an s-trim that are clearly marked with standard bearing part numbers it is hard for me to believe that there is something special about it.

I suppose that it is possible that there are some special clearances used in the bearings, but I really doubt that it could make that much of a difference. It might cause the owner to rebuild it a bit sooner than one that was repaired by vortech. But, if the person is rebuilding it themselves anyway what's the big deal if they have to do it a bit sooner than if Vortech did it.

I still stand by my statement that your are trying to freak people out to maintain your rebuild business. And you never responded to my statement about offering some constructive criticism on the rebuild instructions.

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Last edited by Dedicated5.0; 05-26-2006 at 04:53 PM.
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post #24 of 291 Old 05-26-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced
That bearing is NOT the same one that we use! The bearings we use are made for us...Like I said in the other post about this topic...you cannot purchase the bearings and seals that we use. If these work for you and do not cause future failures, then congrats. The blower is your property you can do with it as you wish. What I don't like is when they get rebuilt incorrectly and fail again. This leads to a "My Vortech Broke Again" mentality. This is not good for us.

No offense guys but $500 for a rebuild vs. $10,000 for a new motor (plus another $2000+ for a new blower head) when the blower grenades and sends shrapnel into the motor @ 6000 rpm. This is a no-brainer! Vortech...keep up the great work.

FEATURED ARTICLE IN "MUSTANG ENTHUSIASTS MAGAZINE SEPTEMBER 2006"! 1986 LX Coupe: PPG Triple Black, 342 R-Block, Non-Intercooled Vortech YSi Blower w/ DS Renegade Setup, TFS Stage 3 TW Heads, TFS R Intake, ??? Rwhp, ??? Rwtq. Old S-Trim 306, 540 Rwhp, 482 Rwtq.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated5.0
...I still stand by my statement that your are trying to freak people out to maintain your rebuild business. And you never responded to my statement about offering some constructive criticism on the rebuild instructions.
Not trying to freak people out, just trying to educate the people. I won't offer any criticism on the rebuild instructions as Vortech does not want individuals doing the rebuilds. I must say you and others are on your on for that.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged86
No offense guys but $500 for a rebuild vs. $10,000 for a new motor (plus another $2000+ for a new blower head) when the blower grenades and sends shrapnel into the motor @ 6000 rpm. This is a no-brainer! Vortech...keep up the great work.
I think you are trying to use a scare tactic with that statement. That can, and has, happened even with Vortech factory rebuilt blowers. Do the odds go up when the DIYer starts messing around inside the case? Sure, the risk does increase, but I think that you're blowing it of proportion. There have been people rebuilding turbos and blowers in their garages and shops for years and there's not a rash of those folks with stories about killing their motors after doing it themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forced
Not trying to freak people out, just trying to educate the people. I won't offer any criticism on the rebuild instructions as Vortech does not want individuals doing the rebuilds. I must say you and others are on your on for that.

I understand that Vortech does not want to offer that kind of information for many reasons. But as you can see by this thead that you have a lot of customers that want this kind of information. Heck, right now this thread has 426 views and 24 replies. Something to think about...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated5.0
...I understand that Vortech does not want to offer that kind of information for many reasons. But as you can see by this thead that you have a lot of customers that want this kind of information. Heck, right now this thread has 426 views and 24 replies. Something to think about...
And I am sure the number of views will continue to go up...(We do have a popular product ) another point I would like to make is the warranty...I am not sure about the company in the other thread, if they offer a warranty, but when Vortech services your blower you get warranty...maybe that isn't worth the extra $ to some, but it's there.

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Quote:
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And I am sure the number of views will continue to go up...(We do have a popular product ) another point I would like to make is the warranty...I am not sure about the company in the other thread, if they offer a warranty, but when Vortech services your blower you get warranty...maybe that isn't worth the extra $ to some, but it's there.
What's the warrenty on a minor rebuild?

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post #29 of 291 Old 05-26-2006, 07:42 PM
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What's the warrenty on a minor rebuild?
6 months

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post #30 of 291 Old 05-26-2006, 07:57 PM
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6 months
Really? Why only 6 months instead of 3 years when buying a new one?

Does a minor rebuild cover ALL the parts inside the case (gears, impeller, etc...) , or just the seals and bearings.

If, after 3 months, and it blows-up, does Vortech cover my entire motor that just ate bearing balls and impeller chunks?

You see where I'm going here. Not to be a jerk, but I could fix 'em in my garage and warranty the seals and bearings only for 3 months.

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FEATURED ARTICLE IN "MUSTANG ENTHUSIASTS MAGAZINE SEPTEMBER 2006"! 1986 LX Coupe: PPG Triple Black, 342 R-Block, Non-Intercooled Vortech YSi Blower w/ DS Renegade Setup, TFS Stage 3 TW Heads, TFS R Intake, ??? Rwhp, ??? Rwtq. Old S-Trim 306, 540 Rwhp, 482 Rwtq.

Last edited by Supercharged86; 05-27-2006 at 08:58 PM.
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post #32 of 291 Old 05-27-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated5.0
I think you are trying to use a scare tactic with that statement. That can, and has, happened even with Vortech factory rebuilt blowers. Do the odds go up when the DIYer starts messing around inside the case? Sure, the risk does increase, but I think that you're blowing it of proportion. There have been people rebuilding turbos and blowers in their garages and shops for years and there's not a rash of those folks with stories about killing their motors after doing it themselves.




I understand that Vortech does not want to offer that kind of information for many reasons. But as you can see by this thead that you have a lot of customers that want this kind of information. Heck, right now this thread has 426 views and 24 replies. Something to think about...

Hey I'm all for the do it yourself'er, me included, nor am I doubting your ability. But let's get realistic here, what's "scary" here is that someone would try to save a couple hundred bucks in the grand sceme of things. This is better known as "PENNY WISE DOLLAR FOOLISH". This isn't like rebuilding a master cylinder or a water pump. You lose the damn blower and you risk losing EVERYTHING. No thanks!!! I'll let the guy who's factory trained and probably done a thousand+ of the things. Vortech doesn't spend millions of dollars in R & D for nothing. Good luck.

FEATURED ARTICLE IN "MUSTANG ENTHUSIASTS MAGAZINE SEPTEMBER 2006"! 1986 LX Coupe: PPG Triple Black, 342 R-Block, Non-Intercooled Vortech YSi Blower w/ DS Renegade Setup, TFS Stage 3 TW Heads, TFS R Intake, ??? Rwhp, ??? Rwtq. Old S-Trim 306, 540 Rwhp, 482 Rwtq.

Last edited by Supercharged86; 05-27-2006 at 08:59 PM.
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post #33 of 291 Old 05-27-2006, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged86
Hey I'm all for the do it yourself'er, me included, nor I'm doubting your ability. But let's get realistic here, what's "scary" here is that someone would try to save a couple hundred bucks in the grand sceme of things. This is better known as "PENNY WISE DOLLAR FOOLISH". This isn't like rebuilding a master cylinder or a water pump. You lose the damn blower and you risk losing EVERYTHING. No thanks!!! I'll let the guy who's factory trained and probably done a thousand+ of the things. Vortech doesn't spend millions of dollars in R & D for nothing. Good luck.
Rebuilding a blower is not rocket science, the average enthusiast that takes his time and assembles the right parts and tools is more than capable of doing just as good a job as the all knowing Vortech. If you don't want to do it yourself thats fine but don't wag your finger at guys that go out and actually take care of something themselves.
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post #34 of 291 Old 05-27-2006, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Well I'm not doubting Vortech, but they did minor rebuild on my S-Trim, and it was messed up when I got it back. from them. Everbody was telling me it was going to be loud because of the gear mesh or something, and I waited until I couldnt take it anymore. I pulled it apart and my gears were busted up and even Vortech didnt know what happened. The did fix it for free and even sent me a fully polished unit back instead of my half polished unit. So Vortech can make mistakes also that can cause you a motor. NOONE is perfect. I was lucky because I'm not sure where the metal pieces from the busted gears went. Luckily my car is still running strong. They made everything right.
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post #35 of 291 Old 05-27-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukkoi18
Rebuilding a blower is not rocket science, the average enthusiast that takes his time and assembles the right parts and tools is more than capable of doing just as good a job as the all knowing Vortech. If you don't want to do it yourself thats fine but don't wag your finger at guys that go out and actually take care of something themselves.
Other than build the motor and weld the cage, I do ALL my own work, so get fk'd pal.

FEATURED ARTICLE IN "MUSTANG ENTHUSIASTS MAGAZINE SEPTEMBER 2006"! 1986 LX Coupe: PPG Triple Black, 342 R-Block, Non-Intercooled Vortech YSi Blower w/ DS Renegade Setup, TFS Stage 3 TW Heads, TFS R Intake, ??? Rwhp, ??? Rwtq. Old S-Trim 306, 540 Rwhp, 482 Rwtq.
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