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post #1 of 28 Old 01-29-2006, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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T56 or TKO?

I am currently in the process of completing my 347 project and need something other than the 176k mile T5 behind it. I expect to have 400rwhp and need it to stand up to drag, street, autoX and open track events. The T56 is appealing due to that nice gear between the T5's 4th and 5th and still keeping that nice over drive. At Mid Ohio I end up hitting 5th before the kink (I have 3.73's) and it just kills the acceleration. Its expensive, heavy and harder/more work to install. I began researching the TKO and it looks like its going to be close to the same money and almost as much work to install.

Anyone have any experience with either?


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post #2 of 28 Old 01-29-2006, 11:33 PM
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I have a Mustang T56 from D&D in my '92. My brother has a TKO 500 in his '95GT. I really like the T56. It shifts a lot better than my brother's TKO. I like the gear ratios too. They work nicely with the 3.73s I have in my car. 6th gear is the same as the T5 5th gear, but first gear is now higher. First gear is a moving gear now instead of a tire burning gear. 5th inbetween 4th and 6th is also very handy.


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post #3 of 28 Old 01-30-2006, 07:12 AM
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The only downside to the T56 is it's weight.
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post #4 of 28 Old 01-30-2006, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnstang
The only downside to the T56 is it's weight.
It also sucks up more horsepower from internal friction than the TKO.

I went with the TKO-600 in my AX/OT and sometimes street car and the install was no problem at all. You do need a Tremec bellhousing, Fox clutch arm, 23 spline disk, Tremec yoke, and a 5/8" driveshaft spacer. I have the road race version with the .82 5th gear and it works perfect for high speed open track events.
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post #5 of 28 Old 01-30-2006, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnstang
The only downside to the T56 is it's weight.
Yes, it is definitely heavier. I can install a T5 no problem by bench pressing it. For the T56 I bought a tranny jack.

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post #6 of 28 Old 01-30-2006, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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It sounds like the T56 is winning....

How hard is the install? Do you need to weld in a new C/MBR? Anything else worth noting?

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post #7 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUSTANG347
It sounds like the T56 is winning....

How hard is the install? Do you need to weld in a new C/MBR? Anything else worth noting?
No troubles at all for me, other than it being heavier than a T5. I am using the Mustang T56. D&D provided a custom crossmember that used the factory mounting locations. I believe the Viper spec requires the crossmember mounts to be relocated aft. The only thing not covered in the D&D kit is about wiring up the reverse lock out. I got the pigtail for the reverse lock out from the GM dealership and wired it to a powered switch. Just click it before going into reverse. The reverse lock out doesnt have to be wired up though but it is nice. Using two hands I can still shift into reverse with it off. The kit came with bellhousing, tranny, driveshaft, clutch fork stud, longer speedo cable, custom crossmember and tranny bushing.

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post #8 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 09:44 AM
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Tim is right. The D&D viper spec tranny mount is relocated rearward.
Different output shaft also. So you'll need a different clutch disk.
Viper has more spline's.
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post #9 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 10:28 AM
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i thought about going with the t-56 viper tranny but i decided to go with the tko600 road race

here are some specs

World class t5 75lbs
TKO 600 102lbs
T-56 125lbs

At the time i was looking at them the tko was like 1600 vs 2500 bucks for viper spec.
I liked the gear ratios on the 03 Cobra t-56 better but it only speced to hold 440ftlbs on cobra version.

you can use this to figure out your engine rpm vs speed
http://www.mustang123.com/calculator...Calculator.asp

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post #10 of 28 Old 01-31-2006, 01:25 PM
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if money's no option, why not go with a g-force t-5.. that would handle a power rating better than both trannies listed, and you can pick your gear ratios.

you can go with syncro'd or non depending how often you drive the car or if you like it.

saving 30lbs in tranny weight is huge..

matt

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post #11 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Unfortunatly, money is an object. I am looking for the best bang for buck.

I spoke to a Mustang expert (has his own large shop with cars featured in mags, races his stang door to door, etc) and he thinks the TKO shifts better than the T56. He says the T56 feels vague. Anyone agree/disagree?

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post #12 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 01:06 AM
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My opinion is the tko 600 shifts better than the t-56 but not enough to sway a decision over (not that much better )

I had 3:73 with my t5, then when I installed my TKO 600 road race tranny I changed to a 3:27 rear gear because of the .82 5th gear.

I like close ratios, it does not even blink from 4th to 5th gear, now when i shift at 143mph to 5th it goes from 6200rpm to 5200rpm and still pulling like a madman.

Jay

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Last edited by jaysch302; 02-02-2006 at 01:14 AM.
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post #13 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 02:06 AM
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<<is looking for a t-5 if you need to sell it to make some cash to upgrade..

Stan
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post #14 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V6Convertible
<<is looking for a t-5 if you need to sell it to make some cash to upgrade..

Stan
I have a freshly rebuilt T5, 90 and up Mustang style. PM if interested.
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysch302
i have the tko 600 and it shifts smoother than even my world class t5 did.
no offense but every t-5 built since 86 has been a world class. there's nothing special about em.

i guess you have to make a decision about how serious you are about the kind of racing you want to do..

a t-56 weighs a lot, then again it has a better ratio than the tko..
the trick is making sure you buy what you need.. not necessarily more or less..

matt
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post #16 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 01:27 PM
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retracted incorrect info

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post #17 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysch302
Matt that is incorrect 94/95 gt's and 93 cobras are the only factory cars that world class t-5 that are installed by the factory.
No offense, but Matt is correct and your are incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysch302
the front main bearing are visibly larger in diameter right under the input shaft and the output shaft is a little larger and has better output shaft bushing and carbon fiber syncros in 4th and 5th gear.
The front mainshaft bearings are the same for WC and NWC applications. Perhaps you are mistaking the mainshaft pilot bearings? The 93 and up Cobra uses a "pocket style" pilot rather than the more common plain roller bearings of the earlier versions. The output shafts are the same diameter and spline count and they all use the same bushing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysch302
Ddperformance has tranny codes on there website so you can check what one you have if you cannot identify it.
This part is true and perhaps you better go back to that website and do some more research.
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post #18 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 02:24 PM
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I have a T-56, love it! I have the Cobra version (as opposed to Viper). It shifts very smooth and is very quiet. My T-5 was loud. It's not notchy like other Tremecs either.

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post #19 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 04:15 PM
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[QUOTE=jaysch302]
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt'sdrag95
no offense but every t-5 built since 86 has been a world class. there's nothing special about em.

Matt that is incorrect 94/95 gt's and 93 cobras are the only factory cars that world class t-5 that are installed by the factory.

the front main bearing are visibly larger in diameter right under the input shaft and the output shaft is a little larger and has better output shaft bushing and carbon fiber syncros in 4th and 5th gear

all the t5's are just plain t5's the weak point of all mustangs

Ddperformance has tranny codes on there website so you can check what one you have if you cannot identify it.

in 86 borg warner quit making the NWC and started making ONLY WC t-5s.. Tremec just kept up the trend.. it's really just an improved bearing, blocker ring design.. the physical strength of the gears really never changed..

the weakness of the t-5 is the sliders.. powershifting kills them.. if unabused they can back a 600hp small block with no problems..

that being said, a relatively stock wc t-5 should last the open track/auto-x car forever because powershifting is a drag thing..(i know i've been building/rebuilding them for street strip cars for years).

a g-force version of the t-5 would be much stronger than the factory versions of both the tko and the t-56.. by leaps and bounds actually.

and the best place to get info on any t-5,t-45, and t-56s is Hanlon motorsports (hanlonmotorsports.com).
bob and linda have been runing that top notch shop forever and linda could answer more questions off the top of her head than the tech guy at D&D could look up in a book.
they are were going 9s with a prep'd t-5 long before g-force even came out with their high strength version, and before anyone else was even into selling the beefed up t-5s.


MUSTANG347, i'd give them a call and they can help you find something in your budget. 610-469-2695.


matt

Last edited by matt'sdrag95; 02-01-2006 at 04:17 PM.
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post #20 of 28 Old 02-01-2006, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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Jay, what RPM in 5th gear at 65mph?

Awesome pics on your website BTW. Nice hobbies. I have a CBR 600RR, a GTI 337 1.8T for my DD, and a Traxxas Revo, a RC10B4 and a couple helicopters among other things. That Savage looks sweet!

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post #21 of 28 Old 02-02-2006, 01:00 AM
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I stand corrected on the t5 issue.

It is ~2200 rpm at 65mph

thanks, i have a savage with a wasp .28 engine and everything else on it now except 3 speed. RC stuff is so cool now days.
i miss my bike i need to get a new one now, i hope to get a kawi 636 or a used r1, trying to feed the need for speed with car stuff for now though.....

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post #22 of 28 Old 02-02-2006, 12:45 PM
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I hate my TKO, its weak, shifts like dog crap, noisy, and overall just bad.

I loved the T56 in an 04 cobra. Night and day difference.
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post #23 of 28 Old 02-02-2006, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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This is much more of a debate than I was antisipating. I think I need to find someone who has each tranny and see for myself.

Jay, my buddy has a Savage 4.6 with a 3 speed and tons of suspension upgrades. The gears in that tranny are so close, you can hardly see/hear it shift. It still doesnt handle quite as well as my Revo tho.

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Last edited by MUSTANG347; 02-02-2006 at 10:28 PM.
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post #24 of 28 Old 02-09-2006, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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I spoke with Jason at MM today. He recomended the TKO over the T56 for the same reasons I have heard... better shifting, good ratios for the track and lighter. After talking to D&D today the price difference (about $850!) combined with the other reasons is making me lean towards the TKO now.

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post #25 of 28 Old 02-10-2006, 12:29 PM
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This guy has a lot of experience & is easy to talk to. If your looking for a road race T5 give Paul a call at 561-743-5600.

you could search for his Corral name: 5Speeds or his website:

http://www.5speeds.com

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post #26 of 28 Old 03-07-2006, 10:34 AM
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I have a 03 cobra 6 speed i got from my buddy cheap. He put a letech in his cobra. My question is, what do i have to do to make it work in my 93 cobra. I know, new drive shaft, crossmember, bellhousing, but is the length of the input shaft the same for both cars?
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post #27 of 28 Old 03-09-2006, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhpchris
I hate my TKO, its weak, shifts like dog crap, noisy, and overall just bad.

I loved the T56 in an 04 cobra. Night and day difference.
You must have an older TKO. I'm running the TKO600 w/ .64 overdrive and the only complaint I have is the gear whine can be a little annoying some times...but that's the price you pay for strength I suppose! The tranny shifts out nicely and I used it for about 5k hard street miles with no issues at all.
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post #28 of 28 Old 03-09-2006, 07:15 AM
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When i bought my TKO600, D&D told me that mine was the second one that they sold. And mine feels VERY strong, shifts pretty good and only whines when i am in high gear and loooooow rpms.

5 min ago i ordered my MGW. I am just trying to reach the shifter better... short arms never help in a Mustang

Hector
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