Coilover collar rubbing?? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-24-2006, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Coilover Sleeve rubbing against spring??

Quick question.

Installed a MM coilover kit this weekend and today I noticed a slight noise at low speeds that seemed to be coming from the front suspension.

Took the wheel off and noticed that some of the color adonization of the spring collar had been rubbed off. Nothing major, but it's also just been 2 days.

My setup:
Tokico Illuminas
MM Coilover Kit
10" 375 Springs
MM CC Plates

The install went very well but I did notice that when the spindles are at full droop (like jacking the car up) the spring stays seated on the collar adjuster but loses contact with the top hat assembly. Am I to assume this is normal since the spring is only 10"?? I'm also assuming that it will reseat itself correctly as the car is slowly lowered back down.

So what is causing this rub between the spring and the collar or is this normal?? The car is driven semi-daily, but light use... maybe 300 miles a month.

Thanks


Last edited by daustin; 01-25-2006 at 02:07 AM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 01-24-2006, 08:20 PM
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When you say collar, are you talking about the lower spring perch? If so, I am going to guess that the kmember's upper spring perch is rubbing on the perch when the steering is getting to a certain point. The best thing to do is assemble everything without the springs and move the suspension around to the extremes of motion and to check for contact. A jack under the control arms will help with this. Also make sure to keep an eye on the brake lines.

Also, at full droop the springs may seperate from the upper perch. Before lowering I just make sure the springs are fully seated on the lower perch before lowering.


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post #3 of 16 Old 01-24-2006, 10:13 PM
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Hmmm.....it would be helpful to have some more info. on the noise, but I'm guessing that the spring collar is rubbing your wheel or tire. with my 10" coilover springs, the collar would get very close to the tire at my ride height. If this is the case, you will be able to adjust the strut-to-spindle orientation before tightening down the two strut bolts all the way down, provided that one of the holes in each mounting ear is i little bit larger than the bolt which passes through it. Doing so will change your camber, however.

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post #4 of 16 Old 01-24-2006, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry if I am having a difficlut time conveying my problem... I'm pretty new to the suspension game.

Car is an 02 GT with 17x9 275's in front

At still ride height the gap is very narrow between the tire and collar. (By collar I'm referring to the metal tube that slides over the strut body) Could the tire wall flexing while in motion be the cause of this?? Especially if the tire wall is flexing while the wheel is turning say into a parking spot?? So that would in turn cause the tire wall to push against the spring wich would push the spring against the collar causing the rub. Would a spacer fix this?? I had always been under the asusmption that spacers weren't good for stress on the studs.

The noise is hard for me to decribe, but if you visualy think about what rubbing a spring over a threaded peice of metal then that's it. I don't ever hear it over small bumps and when I am going slow. Small speed bumps and fairly smooth train tracks are whisper quiet, but hitting a dip in the roadway at around 40mph will cause it to make that rubbing sound.

Thank you for your patience in helping me!!!

Last edited by daustin; 01-24-2006 at 11:29 PM.
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post #5 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 01:20 AM
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Is the rubbed spots on the outside of the sleeve (collar) the side that is facing the tire? If so, then the tire really is the only thing that is rubbing. Is there any degree of movement at the strut's spindle mount? Sometimes one hole is bigger and you could pull the wheel out to give more clearance. Also you can look into crash bolts to see if you can change the spindle/strut relation to increase room between the wheel and c/o sleeve.

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post #6 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oktavius
Is the rubbed spots on the outside of the sleeve (collar) the side that is facing the tire? If so, then the tire really is the only thing that is rubbing. Is there any degree of movement at the strut's spindle mount? Sometimes one hole is bigger and you could pull the wheel out to give more clearance. Also you can look into crash bolts to see if you can change the spindle/strut relation to increase room between the wheel and c/o sleeve.
Yes, at first that is what I thought, but the part of the sleeve that has rub markings are insidethe spring which led me to believe it was being caused by the spring. The sleeve below the spring perch is fine, but you can see where the sleeve (on the side facing the tire) has rub markings from the spring. I didn't think to look last time out to see if the spring had rubbings on it from the tire.

I'll check the bolts tommorow to see if there is any play that may be causing the strut to jiggle around causing the spring to rub.

If this all is caused by the tire rubbing what are my options?? A Spacer??
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post #7 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 09:35 AM
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Spacer, or different offset maybe? You really shouldn't have trouble with that; I have the exact same setup (except I have Bilsteins, not Toks) and I would expect the collar to have the same clearance to the wheel. I wonder if something is causing your springs to bow in and contact the sleeve. I know I occasionally hear a "boing" as though the spring has loaded in torsion and is unloading when I turn.
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post #8 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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the spring bowing could be a possibility.

What could be causing that?? I run a 10" spring.

Other than this rub everything else is set up and the car rides really well.
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post #9 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 03:38 PM
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Still a little unclear on the situation, but it is clearing up slowly. So you have wear marks on the sleeve from the springs. Are there marks on the springs from them rubbing on anything else, like the wheel/tire? How much clearance is between the tire and the spring? Are the upper and lower perches perpendicular to the strut? Do you have a digital camera to share pics?

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Last edited by Oktavius; 01-25-2006 at 03:42 PM.
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post #10 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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I won't be able to get back under the car until this weekend. There is prob about 1/4 inch between the spring and the tire. I can't really see the spring to check for rubbing until I get the wheel off again. I'll get some pics this weekend.

Thanks again for your patience in helping me

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post #11 of 16 Old 01-25-2006, 11:31 PM
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This is kinda confusing. I've been using 1/4" spacers (sourced from M/M) on stock '96 studs, and there is still sufficient engagement in the lugnuts (you shouldn't have problems if you're running wheels with R58/Konig Villain dimensions). I don't see how you're having clearance problems with 1/4" of room between the tire and spring already, but this should help. If you're worried about fender clearance, I had my front 17x9/275 combo spaced to stick out 1" past the front fender edge with 1.5-1.75" of drop and only had minor interference on the inside fender edge upon compression. The only other things I can think about are to make sure the bolt on collars that support the threaded sleeves are on square to the struts and the springs are fully seated on the upper and lower spring perches when you lower the car off the jackstands.

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Maximum Motorsports 3-link rear, M/M Race valved Bilsteins, 475/350 coilover springs, Torsen T2R, full length subs, 17x10, 275s all around, Powerslot/Hawk HP+, Fluidyne 2 row
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post #12 of 16 Old 01-26-2006, 02:48 AM
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If you are having problems with the tire sidewall rubbing on the coilover sleeve, then running a 1/4" thick wheel spacer will fix it. They will work fine with the stock wheel studs and lug nuts. The tires do flex during cornering. If you have some clearance between the tire and sleeve statically, they may still be rubbing under high cornering loads.

One particular place to check for interference. Pull the wheel off the car and look straight up at the upper spring perch. Some SN95 cars have interference between the coil spring near the top and the upper frame rail/box section which is just outboard of the strut. When checking for interference here, the suspension is going to be at full droop, so there probably won't be any interference. The interference will occur during bumps and/or sharp steering motions. You need to carefully check the OD of the spring for any witness marks. This problem typically happens with cars that are running camber more positive than -1 degree.

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post #13 of 16 Old 01-29-2006, 08:28 PM
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My fronts were also gouged slightly (about 1/2" long), but the rear threaded collar had an area where about 1.5" of the treads were ground down so bad that they were barely visible.

10" spring on the front, 8" spring on the rear.

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post #14 of 16 Old 01-29-2006, 08:41 PM
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It sounds to me like he's just getting spring bowing, which is rubbing against the threads on the coil-over sleeve. I had that happen with 10" 300# springs on D&D coil-overs, with 8" 425# springs on Griggs coil-overs, and with 9" 315# springs on Ground Control coil-overs on my Subaru. In all cases, they made noise for the first week or two, but once the springs clearanced themselves against the coil-over sleeves, the noise went away. The area of the rubbing is high enough on the sleeves (in my case) that I'll never run the lower spring perch up that high anyway, so it doesn't really bug me.

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post #15 of 16 Old 01-30-2006, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
It sounds to me like he's just getting spring bowing, which is rubbing against the threads on the coil-over sleeve. I had that happen with 10" 300# springs on D&D coil-overs, with 8" 425# springs on Griggs coil-overs, and with 9" 315# springs on Ground Control coil-overs on my Subaru. In all cases, they made noise for the first week or two, but once the springs clearanced themselves against the coil-over sleeves, the noise went away. The area of the rubbing is high enough on the sleeves (in my case) that I'll never run the lower spring perch up that high anyway, so it doesn't really bug me.
Just wondering, who did your TA install (was it you)?

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post #16 of 16 Old 01-30-2006, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
It sounds to me like he's just getting spring bowing, which is rubbing against the threads on the coil-over sleeve. I had that happen with 10" 300# springs on D&D coil-overs, with 8" 425# springs on Griggs coil-overs, and with 9" 315# springs on Ground Control coil-overs on my Subaru. In all cases, they made noise for the first week or two, but once the springs clearanced themselves against the coil-over sleeves, the noise went away. The area of the rubbing is high enough on the sleeves (in my case) that I'll never run the lower spring perch up that high anyway, so it doesn't really bug me.

I think this is the case. After getting under the car again everything is clear. No rubbing against the tire at all. I would think even with tire flex bumping the spring I would see at least some sort of visible sign that the tire had come in contact with the spring but its clean as can be. So I guess I'm just getting a slight enough bow that it is rubbing the shock sleeve. (only about the top inch of the sleeve) Of course it sounds bad when in the car, but from what some others have told me it will go away once the sleeve rubs smooth. Not exactly the best solution IMO, but I guess that's what I'm stuck with. Everything else lines up correctly, I have a dead on alignment and the overall ride quality is great.
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