Could Canton Road Race Oil Pan Be the Cause of a Blown Engine ?? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-11-2006, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Could Canton Road Race Oil Pan Be the Cause of a Blown Engine ??

I am currently rebuilding my 4.6L 32V motor due to loss of oiling on the front two cylinders with badly burned rods and spun crank bearings. I have one machine shop telling me that my Canton road race oil pan P/N 15-784 is not working as it should in that insufficient oil is contained within the diamond and therefore the pickup is getting starved.

Anyone have experience or opinions on this oil pan ??

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post #2 of 14 Old 01-11-2006, 09:27 PM
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no personal experience with that pan specifically, but i have talked with an engine builder who rebuilt a couple 4.6DOHC motors from improper windage tray installations.

does the canton pan use the stock windage tray or do they have thier own??


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post #3 of 14 Old 01-12-2006, 01:32 AM
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I dont see how. Unless it was just low on oil. I run a Canton RR pan, with Canton's girdle and windage tray on my 331. Autocross with no problems.

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-12-2006, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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I did use the Canton windage tray with the RR oil pan. The only real evidence we have is it is obvious the front two rods and the crank were oil starved. No problems with any other cylinders and when open tracking I'm checking oil level after each session, so I know it wasn't run low. With the high capacity oil pan and the extra capacity the windage tray creates I always run 7 to 8 quarts of oil.

The diamond in the center does have a lip the oil needs to flow over to reach the pickup and these motors have a reputation of keeping most of the oil up top with narrow return passages and it does take the pressure of fluid outside the doors on the diamond to cause them to open.

He says he hasn't seen problems with the Canton or Milodon pans that don't have the center diamond.

Should I leave out the windage tray when I rebuild ??
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-12-2006, 09:10 PM
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What was the oil pressure doing the day the motor let go?

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post #6 of 14 Old 01-13-2006, 02:21 AM
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This thread is interesting. I would find it very hard that the Canton RR pan is the cause of a engine failure, but interesting I have blown 2 engines with a Canton RR pan, however, my car is a race car and the two failures seem to be from other non related issues/failures. The first being 2 cylinders/pistons heated up/failed, but that motor had 80K miles and was used hard. The 2nd motor had a oil pump failure.

andy

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post #7 of 14 Old 01-13-2006, 02:48 AM
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Only issue I have seen with the canton pans is when someone overfills them. Had a who bought a car with like 11 qts in it. It was a 7 qt pan, but the stock dipstick which was never marked at 7 qts.

I have seen quite a few oil pump failures. It seems that the cobras are more prone to this for some reason. Billet oil pump gears seem to fix the issue.


BTW: cars looking good Andy sorry to hear about the engine failure

Last edited by 86stang; 01-13-2006 at 02:55 AM.
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-13-2006, 11:39 AM
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I have been running 8 to 8.5 quarts of oil with the canton pan. with the stock dipstick, this puts me at the full mark. I believe this is okay?? I believe the stock oil pan ran with 6 quarts.
86Stang - where do I find billet oil pump gears ??

Andy

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post #9 of 14 Old 01-13-2006, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8cobra99
I have been running 8 to 8.5 quarts of oil with the canton pan. with the stock dipstick, this puts me at the full mark. I believe this is okay?? I believe the stock oil pan ran with 6 quarts.
86Stang - where do I find billet oil pump gears ??

Andy

Yeah i think thats ok for what you use the car for Andy. Cant remember do you have an accusump system? You can search around for the gears. Heres a link to one of them:

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/...roducts_id=234
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-14-2006, 12:20 PM
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In my new engine build/install, I put a oil pressure Warning light in. If the pressure drops below 30lbs, the light will trip. In essence, the accusump is the same and I will probably install one, but I have not yet.
andy


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post #11 of 14 Old 01-14-2006, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Unfortunately my oil pressure gauge had to be pulled. It was an autometer mechanical gauge that leaked oil due to too much heat affecting the small plastic line. I only had the stock idiot light disguised as a gauge working. When my gauge was working I think it was around 60 lbs typically. At the point this motor let go I was having it out with another Cobra, a Vette, and a Porsche just out of turn 5 at Laguna Seca, so my attention was not on the stock oil pressure gauge. I normally check gauges on the straights and never saw it fall below mid-point.

I have also suffered the oil pump failure with stock oil pump gears but have been running billet since my first blown motor. That's when I went with the Canton RR pan and now have had two failures with it. Just before this one it was the rear four rods, crank bearings, and all pistons that were damaged.

I am adding an accusump this time and going with the Autometer electrical gauge..

V8 - I think anytime you have a heat related failure, inadequate oiling could have been the cause or played a role.

Thanks for all who have chimed in here. I just can't afford another engine rebuild and feel I have to change something like the accusump and possibly tossing the Canton RR pan. I wanted to see if there were opinions on the effectivess of the baffling of their design besides what I am getting from the shop.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-14-2006, 04:28 PM
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Hmm. I am now installing a Autometer mechanical oil pressure guage, along with the Autometer light that warns when the oil pressure gets below 30lbs.
99Black - My 2nd motor that blew, was just like yours.... the oil pump gears broke in turn 2 at Willow Springs. In the mili-seconds it happened, I only felt a power loss coming out of the corner, no noise. The last guage I checked as the car rolled to a stop was the oil pressure guage, but all my temps were good at the time, like you, I was not normally scanning the pressure guage, more attention was on the oil and water temp guages.

I just did my engine install, but I think I am going back in to install the Billet oil pump gears from Sean Hyland Motorsports
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/...bdcb8b92dbe72d

Thanks

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post #13 of 14 Old 01-14-2006, 09:21 PM
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Sounds good Andy a little extra security never hurts.


99 Black Venom You should and try and get some copper tubing for the oil feed line. I know NAPA sells it. 1/8 copper tubing thats all we use when we install gauges. Never liked that plastic stuff. Unless you go braided steel line.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-14-2006, 11:19 PM
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I also found this:

http://www.modularmustangracing.com/
(805) 983-8599 fax us at: (805) 983-8592
Modular Mustang Racing
2380 Eastman Ave. Unit 107
Oxnard, CA 93030
MMR Street/Racing Oil Pump
4.6/5.4 Complete Street/Racing oil pump w/ high flow pick-up tube. WILL NOT BREAK, tested in the MMR 5.4 turbo racecar to 8000+RPM and 1400+HP, race prepped pump and valving for increased flow and pressure, cryogenically treated gears. MMR also machines the pump body for an o-ring to make a perfect seal from the block to pump. No more spun cam journals, rod or main bearings. We have increased the pressure/volume for blower and turbo cars that require additional oil volume for lubrication. This is truly the most well tested/proven pump for your SOHC/DOHC powered vehicle. Completely assembled ready for use. No more swapping in aftermarket gearsets into your used pump for $350+, get our new assembled race pump and protect your investment for half the price with more protection. 400350 $209.99

Andy


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