ALIGNMENT ISSUES - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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ALIGNMENT ISSUES

FOR AN OCCASIONAL STREET DRIVEN CAR, HOW SHOULD I ALIGN THE VEHICLE FOR THE BEST POSSIBLE CASTER/CAMBER TO COMPETE WITH IN AUTOCROSSING? I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT ANY OF THIS BUT I KNOW IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND WANT TO LEARN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

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post #2 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 05:09 PM
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Sigh.

Or perhaps, SIGH.

Did you search? Even a little bit? This has been covered many times.

Are you competing in a stock class? This will severely limit your alignment options since camber/caster plates are not allowed in stock.

Did you not want to adjust toe? Some find this quite useful for auto-cross.

How much street time are you talking about? Radical alignment settings will eat tires quite quickly on the street. E.g., my car is set at -3.2* camber +5.0* caster and 1/4" total toe out. But then, I only drive maybe 50 miles per month on the street. I wouldn't want those settings on a daily driver.

Do a little homework, give your intentions more clearly and you might get some real help. Actually, sufficient homework should answer most all your apparent questions.

HAVE A NICE DAY.


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post #3 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 05:09 PM
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Find the caps lock key, it'll shave half a second off your times.

You do not want to drive on the street (nor could you achieve with stock parts) the kind of alignment that's worth a damn auutocrossing. Get yourself some good caster/camber plates or don't bother. And when you have them, swapping between street and autocross settings is a simple 3-minute affair.

It would help if you'd share what car you're dealing with too, but generally, you want a minimum of 2.5 degrees negative camber, 5-6 degrees positive caster, and whatever toe-out results having changed to those settings from more reasonable street settings of 5 degrees positive caster and about 1.25 neg camber wiht 0 to 1/16th inch total toe-in.
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post #4 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 06:08 PM
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What class are you going to autocross in?

-Bill

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post #5 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by martindc1
What class are you going to autocross in?
yeah I guess that does make a difference LOL
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post #6 of 23 Old 01-07-2006, 11:09 AM
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He's in ESP.
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post #7 of 23 Old 01-08-2006, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, I would just like to say thank you to everyone who helped with this question. I guess if you don't know anything around here in this forum that you shouldn't ask anyone in here for help. Did I do some research looking at some previouse ,posts? Yes I did, but that doesn't mean that those people were running the same thing I was. And Whoever complained about the caps lock thing is such a friggin baby. It would save half a second on what? Do you even realize that didn't make any sense. All I can say is wow. No onder why a lot of other car people don't like mustang owners. Get your heads out of your asses and take a look around.

Not everyone knows everything about road racing or autocrossing, but I know about manners and helpiong people out. I'm sorry I wasted all of your time withthis stupid question. Don't worry because this forum sucks ass anyway and I'm out. See you guys on the track.
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post #8 of 23 Old 01-08-2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCARACERGT
Don't worry because this forum sucks ass anyway and I'm out.

Yeah, we're just a bunch of old meanie-heads.

Try over on Corner-Carvers.com, they're much nicer over there.

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post #9 of 23 Old 01-08-2006, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCARACERGT
Wow, I would just like to say thank you to everyone who helped with this question. I guess if you don't know anything around here in this forum that you shouldn't ask anyone in here for help. Did I do some research looking at some previouse ,posts? Yes I did, but that doesn't mean that those people were running the same thing I was. And Whoever complained about the caps lock thing is such a friggin baby. It would save half a second on what? Do you even realize that didn't make any sense. All I can say is wow. No onder why a lot of other car people don't like mustang owners. Get your heads out of your asses and take a look around.

Not everyone knows everything about road racing or autocrossing, but I know about manners and helpiong people out. I'm sorry I wasted all of your time withthis stupid question. Don't worry because this forum sucks ass anyway and I'm out. See you guys on the track.
Good. I'll hold you to that threat if I see you back here crying like a little girl again about meany-heads giving you good tech to a badly-asked question.

Signed...the road race autocross forum moderator baby.

Last edited by MFE; 01-08-2006 at 10:39 PM.
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post #10 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCARACERGT
Wow, I would just like to say thank you to everyone who helped with this question. I guess if you don't know anything around here in this forum that you shouldn't ask anyone in here for help. Did I do some research looking at some previouse ,posts? Yes I did, but that doesn't mean that those people were running the same thing I was.
Here's a tip. Start out with at least one question that's in greater detail than "What's the best . . .". Providing some evidence that you actually have done some searching would go a long way (e.g. "I've seen suggestions of x.x* camber; would the same apply to my situation").

Quote:
And Whoever complained about the caps lock thing is such a friggin baby. It would save half a second on what? Do you even realize that didn't make any sense. All I can say is wow. No onder why a lot of other car people don't like mustang owners. Get your heads out of your asses and take a look around.

Not everyone knows everything about road racing or autocrossing, but I know about manners and helpiong people out. I'm sorry I wasted all of your time withthis stupid question. Don't worry because this forum sucks ass anyway and I'm out. See you guys on the track.
Do you understand that your question is a request for technical assistance, and asking it here instead of at your local alignment shop differs only in your manner of communication and amount of payment. HOW MUCH HELP DO YOU THINK YOU'D GET FOR FREE IF YOU SHOUTED THE VERY SAME QUESTION AT THE TOP OF YOUR LUNGS RIGHT UP IN YOUR LOCAL FORD SHOP ALIGNMENT TECH'S FACE?

Translation for the internet-manners challenged: all caps IS the equivalent of shouting, which is considered by most to be somewhere between rude and ignorant. I'll let you figure out for yourself just where within that range your first post put you.

And grow a thicker skin; else you'll get your feelings hurt most any virtual place that you do anything more than lurk at. You're calling somebody else a baby over a politely stated suggestion made with a clear sprinkling of humor? Oh, the irony.

Not a Mustang owner (but good information and entertainment is where you find it).

Norm


Mine: '08 GT, 5MT, black/light graphite, un-Fstock (DD, occasional track day)
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post #11 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfloz
Yeah, we're just a bunch of old meanie-heads.

Try over on Corner-Carvers.com, they're much nicer over there.
That place is scary. I've been a member for 2 years or so(I think) and I have not made one single post .
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post #12 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 10:58 AM
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You're doing better than me. I haven't even been able to get my account approved over there.
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post #13 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsons
You're doing better than me. I haven't even been able to get my account approved over there.
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsons
You're doing better than me. I haven't even been able to get my account approved over there.

Keep trying; it's worth it. They open up once a month or so.

Tread lightly though; if people think there are meany-heads here, well . . .

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post #15 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfloz
Keep trying; it's worth it. They open up once a month or so.

Tread lightly though; if people think there are meany-heads here, well . . .
you get a free pass if you PM Matt M. and tell him it's your maiden voyage and you want to know what the best X Y or Z for your mustang is.
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post #16 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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I apologize for typing in all caps most of the time. The reason for this is because I work for an architect as a draftsman on the computer all day, and all the text that goes on the sets of drawings i do has to be in all capital letters for ease of reading. Just because I typed in all caps doesn't mean that I was yelling. I thought that was what all bold type letters meant. Anyway, as I said before I don't know much about this situation, thus that means I probably don't know how to ask it correctly. Instead of ridicule, I was hoping for help. And I don't know what shops anyone goes to, but if you just ask a question about this at any alignment shop around here thay don't charge you unless they actually do the work. I don't want sympathy or somebody to hold my hand either. I just had a techinical question I though one of you guys could help me out with.

Is there a book I can get on this type of stuff? And if so, does it tell you how to align an occasional driver? Most books I've seen talked strictly about race cars. Although that might be in the near future it isn't a reality right now. So I apologize for my stupid question.
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post #17 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 04:30 PM
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Terry: Were you thinking about me, you, and Shawn going in together to get some alignment measuring devices so we can start doing our own?
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCARACERGT
I apologize for typing in all caps most of the time. The reason for this is because I work for an architect as a draftsman on the computer all day, and all the text that goes on the sets of drawings i do has to be in all capital letters for ease of reading. Just because I typed in all caps doesn't mean that I was yelling. I thought that was what all bold type letters meant. Anyway, as I said before I don't know much about this situation, thus that means I probably don't know how to ask it correctly. Instead of ridicule, I was hoping for help. And I don't know what shops anyone goes to, but if you just ask a question about this at any alignment shop around here thay don't charge you unless they actually do the work. I don't want sympathy or somebody to hold my hand either. I just had a techinical question I though one of you guys could help me out with.

Is there a book I can get on this type of stuff? And if so, does it tell you how to align an occasional driver? Most books I've seen talked strictly about race cars. Although that might be in the near future it isn't a reality right now. So I apologize for my stupid question.
Great, a fresh start. But you still haven't told us what car you're driving and what class you autocross it in, if you care about class competitiveness. That matters because to do anything really good with the alignment you'll need caster/camber plates, and they aren't legal in some classes. The car matters because some of the alignment issues faced by the driver of a '91 mustang are different than those faced by the driver of an '04.
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFE
Great, a fresh start. But you still haven't told us what car you're driving and what class you autocross it in, if you care about class competitiveness. That matters because to do anything really good with the alignment you'll need caster/camber plates, and they aren't legal in some classes. The car matters because some of the alignment issues faced by the driver of a '91 mustang are different than those faced by the driver of an '04.
He has a 2003 GT 5-speed and he races in ESP.


I'm answering for him so we can get quick answers
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCARACERGT
I apologize for typing in all caps most of the time. The reason for this is because I work for an architect as a draftsman on the computer all day, and all the text that goes on the sets of drawings i do has to be in all capital letters for ease of reading. Just because I typed in all caps doesn't mean that I was yelling. I thought that was what all bold type letters meant. Anyway, as I said before I don't know much about this situation, thus that means I probably don't know how to ask it correctly. Instead of ridicule, I was hoping for help. And I don't know what shops anyone goes to, but if you just ask a question about this at any alignment shop around here thay don't charge you unless they actually do the work. I don't want sympathy or somebody to hold my hand either. I just had a techinical question I though one of you guys could help me out with.

Is there a book I can get on this type of stuff? And if so, does it tell you how to align an occasional driver? Most books I've seen talked strictly about race cars. Although that might be in the near future it isn't a reality right now. So I apologize for my stupid question.
No apology is necessary.

Just re-read the posts above without taking them personally and you will see that people need more information before thay can give you specific recommendations.

If you want to know how to align your car, as opposed to, or in addition to, what alignment specifications will work well, again, try a search. There is some very good information on DIY alignment here.

I am aware of at least two threads that not only address street settings, but ways to quickly change from street to auto-cross friendly settings.

Understand that people get tired of answering the same questions over and over, especially when they are poorly framed with too little background information. That said, you will find this forum is fairly tolerant of newbies and will try to work with you given half a chance.

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post #21 of 23 Old 01-09-2006, 09:07 PM
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The Mustang Performance Handbook II by William Mathis is an excellent resource for Mustang suspension. The book is in reference to Fox bodies but provides some good background information of the suspension arrangement of the 79-04 cars. There is also a nice tuning section which still for the most part applies to the sn95 cars.

If you have not gotten castor/camber plates yet you can still increase the performance of your alignment by getting as much camber out of the car as you can as long as it is even on each side, and set the toe to 0. I ran a full season of autocross with these settings and did not experience any adverse tire wear or street manners.

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post #22 of 23 Old 01-10-2006, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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As Mark said the car is a 2003 GT that i compete with in ESP. The car has steedas 1000 lb. springs up front with the 3 bolt c.c. plates and a strut tower brace. The rear has the 5-link 2 with 350 lb. springs, and the car has koni single adjustables all around. The car is driven maybe 3 days a week on the street (if I realy have to drive it). I guess what I realy am asking is there a way that I can set it up to be competitive as much as possible but retain some streetability? I do understand that too much of caster or camber or toe will cause excess or uneven tire wear on normal street driving. I just want to know if there is a happy medium.
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post #23 of 23 Old 01-10-2006, 09:54 AM
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If you are going to leave your autocross tires on then you will wear them out from racing before you wear them out from the alignment. Just set your toe-in to zero to slightly toe out while maxing out caster and camber. I ran -2.5 degrees camber on my daily driver/AX SVT Cobra for a year without any wear issues. Now I run the camber at -1.5* on the DD and only AX it 1 or 2 times a year since I now have the GT as a dedicated AX car.
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