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post #1 of 23 Old 12-28-2005, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Need brake pad help

I'm going to VIR in Feb with my 03 mach1 for a NASA HPDE weekend using the full 3.2 mile course.I'm looking for some pads that work as well as OEM on the street,that don't squeal like pigs and are rotor friendly.I've heard of Green Stuff and HPS.Are there others that I should consider?What about Performance Friction Z pads?What do you pros recommend?

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post #2 of 23 Old 12-28-2005, 02:02 PM
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Welp, if it's your first trip to the track and you're using street tires streetable pads should do. Anything more, and you'll want track pads. As for a good compromise pad, PFZ or HPSs are fine. You can order them at pepboys or Autozone. Porterfield R4-S are along the same lines, maybe a bit better.

Honestly, it only takes 5 minutes per side to change pads. I would change them at your house before you leave for the track, then take them off when you get home. IF you go with something like Carbotech Panther Plus or XP8 or 10, it's not a big deal to drive with them on the street.


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post #3 of 23 Old 12-28-2005, 03:14 PM
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I ordered my set of Hawk HPS's from Tire Rack. Good price and fast shipping. Noticed a world of difference over stock pads, the new rotors and stainless lines helped too. I do have squeal on the street, but it is easy to control with either more or less touch on the pedal. Nothing you couldn't live with. Does take a little while to get them warm and working good though.
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post #4 of 23 Old 12-28-2005, 05:37 PM
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You're not going to find a pad that works great on the track even with street tires, is clean AND doesn't make noise on the street. It just isn't going to happen so don't waste any more time thinking about it. That leaves you with two options: Find a compromise you can live with, or dedicate yourself to swapping pads in and out for events.

I know from experience that street pads are not worth trying on the track IMHO, your first time out or not. You'll want an upgrade in there. Personally I wouldn't go any less than Hawk HP+ and the like, which are on the more track-oriented end of "dual purpose" pads. HPS are more on the street end and I don't know how they do on track but they do still dust and squeal on the street, from my understanding.

I don't like swapping pads all the damn time so I just deal with the dust and noise of running Carbotech Panter Plus pads all the time. Functionally similar to the HP+'s.
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post #5 of 23 Old 12-29-2005, 03:17 AM
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Whatever you do, bring an extra set along with tools to bleed and change the pads.

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post #6 of 23 Old 12-29-2005, 03:47 PM
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EBC Yellows.

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post #7 of 23 Old 12-29-2005, 06:23 PM
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Ebc yellows will last you a while before runing low, but do not offer the grip that a hawk blue or portifiled r-4 would. They are a good choice for the hpde or a budget minded racer.
I would spend the extra money on portifield r'4s for the front Amazing stoping power good cold bite and the price is just right for all of what you get.Just change the pads in the morning and before you leave the track. Run something lile a hawk Hps in the rear. Something you wont need to change out.

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post #8 of 23 Old 12-29-2005, 09:07 PM
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The R4-S pads don't squeel.

Remember with a track pad, you're not so much buying extra stopping power as you are buying temperature range. It's pretty easy to cook a street pad.

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post #9 of 23 Old 12-30-2005, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys!

I decided on Carbotech XP8's after talking to Larry at Carbotech.I hope this is a good choice cause they're a little pricey.
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post #10 of 23 Old 12-30-2005, 04:33 PM
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Nice work! I had the Panther Pluses and loved them. I'm going XP8s for the next round. You'll find you'll get more value out of them. As an example, I went through a set of street pads in 20 minutes at Road america, but the Carbotech Panthers lasted the other 7 even after 1 previous track day, 5000 street miles, and an auto-x


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post #11 of 23 Old 12-30-2005, 04:59 PM
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You'll like the Carbotechs, they're a great pad. Im suprised Carbotech sold you the XP8/XP9 thats the pad I wanted but I was told that theyre only putting the XP10s on the "heavy" mustangs now. I went with the XP10s and Panther + in the rear. Had a great time at Hallett on the pads they were worked very hard. Hallett isnt very friendly to brakes especially turn two which is a 120* left hand turn at the end of a down hill straight. Very noisy and very dusty but they offer great stopping power. Just think of it as money well spent.

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post #12 of 23 Old 01-02-2006, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramnstang
You'll like the Carbotechs, they're a great pad. Im suprised Carbotech sold you the XP8/XP9 thats the pad I wanted but I was told that theyre only putting the XP10s on the "heavy" mustangs now. I went with the XP10s and Panther + in the rear. Had a great time at Hallett on the pads they were worked very hard. Hallett isnt very friendly to brakes especially turn two which is a 120* left hand turn at the end of a down hill straight. Very noisy and very dusty but they offer great stopping power. Just think of it as money well spent.
Larry suggested the 8s for VIR cause its a little easier on brakes than some tracks and the 8s wont destroy my rotors.Another track near me called Kershaw(sp) in SC he said is much harder on brakes and I would need the 10s for the additional temp range but they would be harder on the rotors.My brother who club races a Viper put me on to Larry.Seems to really know his brakes.
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post #13 of 23 Old 01-02-2006, 09:13 AM
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It's Carolina Motorsports Park in Kershaw, SC and he's right. It's hard on brakes but it's a great track. Make sure you've got some high quality, high temp fluid before tackling this track. SS brake lines and brake ducts wouldn't be a bad idea either.

http://www.carolinamotorsportspark.com/
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-02-2006, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsons
It's Carolina Motorsports Park in Kershaw, SC and he's right. It's hard on brakes but it's a great track. Make sure you've got some high quality, high temp fluid before tackling this track. SS brake lines and brake ducts wouldn't be a bad idea either.

http://www.carolinamotorsportspark.com/
I'm going to leave SS hoses and ducting off for this first event and plan on using the Motorcraft HD fluid.It's DBP is 550 I think.
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post #15 of 23 Old 01-05-2006, 08:23 PM
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If you see yourself pushing the car hard down the back straight, you should reconsider SS hoses and brake ducts. A brake failure there would be really bad- way down in the woods there is a guardrail that should stop you.

If you do the hoses, make sure they are clear of the wheel & tire at all steering angles and throughout the suspension travel. A couple years ago one of my students' car lost all brakes going into turn 5 at Summit Point when the left front wheel wore through the brake hose. Luckily I was driving an easy "show him the line" lap, and we were only doing maybe 75 MPH through the chute. Still not fun.

At least take a few minutes while you're changing the pads to remove the splash shields and throw them in the garbage. It will help cool the rotors.

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post #16 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast92Coupe
If you see yourself pushing the car hard down the back straight, you should reconsider SS hoses and brake ducts. A brake failure there would be really bad- way down in the woods there is a guardrail that should stop you.

If you do the hoses, make sure they are clear of the wheel & tire at all steering angles and throughout the suspension travel. A couple years ago one of my students' car lost all brakes going into turn 5 at Summit Point when the left front wheel wore through the brake hose. Luckily I was driving an easy "show him the line" lap, and we were only doing maybe 75 MPH through the chute. Still not fun.

At least take a few minutes while you're changing the pads to remove the splash shields and throw them in the garbage. It will help cool the rotors.

Justin
Justin,how do those shields come off?
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post #17 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j rick kirby
Justin,how do those shields come off?
Drill-out the rivet.

Don't throw the shields in the garbage. They make great brackets for a brake cooling kit later on if you decide to install one. So set them aside.

particularly non-stock 99 Cobra w/brand C motor...

Last edited by serpentnoir; 01-06-2006 at 11:03 AM.
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by serpentnoir
Drill-out the rivet.

Don't throw the shields in the garbage. They make great brackets for a brake cooling kit later on if you decide to install one. So set them aside.
Thanks and one more thing that has got me screwed up is air pressure.My mach1 is stock and on street tires and everyone is telling me to raise the front pressure to 40-45 and the rear to 35-40 to get rid of the inherent push.This seems backwards to me,can you straighten me out?
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j rick kirby
Thanks and one more thing that has got me screwed up is air pressure.My mach1 is stock and on street tires and everyone is telling me to raise the front pressure to 40-45 and the rear to 35-40 to get rid of the inherent push.This seems backwards to me,can you straighten me out?
I run 38psi cold all around on street tires when at the track. They end up around 43psi when hot. Mustangs push a lot no matter what you do. I see it as a safety advantage.

But to answer your question, yes it seems backward to me also. Rule of thumb is higher spring rate or roll rate in the back reduces push (understeer). Lower rate increases push. That has been my personal experience anyway.

particularly non-stock 99 Cobra w/brand C motor...
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-06-2006, 04:12 PM
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More weight needs more air pressure for adequate support and optimum grip. Mustangs are nose heavy, so more air pressure is needed up front.

I'd start about 4 lbs lower in the back, maybe 38 F, 34 R cold.
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-10-2006, 12:21 PM
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Personally, I tried the PF90's, and when they stopped making those, I went with www.CobaltFriction.com Spec VR's.
Flush with Ford HD fluid just before that weekend. You'll be good to go.

Just watch for fading throughout the day. And keep an eye on pads wearing. If _really_ aggressive, you can go thru a set of pads in a day.

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post #22 of 23 Old 02-21-2006, 07:59 PM
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Back from the dead...

I am currently shopping for new pads. I daily drive my car, autocross, and I am about to start open tracking. Right now I am getting the car ready for the SVTOA event at Sebring in April. So far I am leaning torwards Carbotech pads. I emailed them with my setup and my application and they suggested the XP8s as a compromise. They said the XP10s would be ideal for the track days (they said my little fox body is a pig ) while the Panther Plus would be better for the daily driving and autocross. Does anyone use the XP10s on the street? How about the XP8/9s? Right now I am using PFZ pads up front with Hawk HP+ pads in the rear. I have gotten used to dust from the HP+ pads, so I dont think dusting would really be that big of a deal for me. Thanx.

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post #23 of 23 Old 02-22-2006, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Oktavius
Back from the dead...

I am currently shopping for new pads. I daily drive my car, autocross, and I am about to start open tracking. Right now I am getting the car ready for the SVTOA event at Sebring in April. So far I am leaning torwards Carbotech pads. I emailed them with my setup and my application and they suggested the XP8s as a compromise. They said the XP10s would be ideal for the track days (they said my little fox body is a pig ) while the Panther Plus would be better for the daily driving and autocross. Does anyone use the XP10s on the street? How about the XP8/9s? Right now I am using PFZ pads up front with Hawk HP+ pads in the rear. I have gotten used to dust from the HP+ pads, so I dont think dusting would really be that big of a deal for me. Thanx.
Just got back from VIR Sun and had a blast with no problems of any kind,car was great.For brakes I used the Carbotech XP8s at Larry's suggestion and they never once hinted of fade and that's after hauling down from 140 mph and they wear like iron.I expect to be able to use them for several more weekends.One reason he suggested 8s is that I was using street tires and I could drive to and from with them.Dusty and noisy cold so I took them off Sun night.These pads have tremendous stopping power and take a little time to get used to them.I was either throwing myself through the windshield or braking way to soon.This was all on the street by the time I got to the track I was used to them.When I put my PFZs back on it was like I had no stopping power but they feel normal again now.Oh,by the way my car is an 03 mach1 so I've got the Cobra brakes.Hope this helps.
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