Insurance and racing (OT and ORC) ..What EXACTLY would be covered? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 Old 09-05-2005, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SnkBtn99's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Why do you want to know ?
Posts: 264
Insurance and racing (OT and ORC) ..What EXACTLY would be covered?

If you open track race and have the unfortunate luck to have an accident, what would your automobile insurance cover, if anything?

And no, I don't want to hear the responses of " go park it along side of the road and say that you hit a lsick spot".

Is there any legitimate claims to be made if you were racing on a closed course?

Trying to understand ..Thanks in advance !


"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"

'99 Rio Red Cobra Coupe
Bassani Catback Exhaust,Magnaflow catted X Pipe,WMS CAI,Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, 18" Saleens w/ S3 Poles, Bilstein HDs, H&R Race Springs, MM CC Plates - Chrome

13.8 @102.4
Worst time ever posted by a Cobra -- Must be the driver
Screw 1/4 mile ... You can catch me at ORC or AutoX


'65 Mustang Convertible, F150 FX4, '04 SVT Focus ZX5
SnkBtn99 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 09-05-2005, 12:32 PM
Registered User
 
carrew's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Home of the Indy 500
Posts: 17,035
If its an educational event like a driving school where and instructor is teaching you its usually covered. But most will drop you like a bad habit. Its very very rare that their is ever and incident. Just OT at tracks with not too many walls.


2014 Camaro 1LE
2001 Cobra White SOLD
1989 Mustang GT "F0xR0d" SOLD
12.49 @ 116.8 mph (BFG KDW Street tire)
carrew is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 09-05-2005, 02:41 PM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
It depends entirely on your insurance company. But to carrew's point, you'll find that most track events are positioned as "schools" or "driver education", will have limited passing, and will generally not provide any means of tracking your times, all so that they may avoid any definition of "race" or "timed event" because these are the kinds of things that are typically excluded from insurance coverage. However, I heard as of about a year ago that many insurers were hip to this and are now including language like your car isn't covered if anything happens to it on a track AT ALL. Check with your insurance carrier.
MFE is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 Old 09-05-2005, 03:43 PM
Registered User
 
Mustang5L5's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (6)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 8,220
Yup. my insurance company states that i am not covered if anything happens at any sort of race track....drag strips included.

Mike
--1988 Mustang LX 5.0--
Mustang5L5 is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 09-05-2005, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SnkBtn99's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Why do you want to know ?
Posts: 264
5L5 ... that is what I am going in with ... 100% my coverage .... That is what I am also expecting from my agent ...

"With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"

'99 Rio Red Cobra Coupe
Bassani Catback Exhaust,Magnaflow catted X Pipe,WMS CAI,Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, 18" Saleens w/ S3 Poles, Bilstein HDs, H&R Race Springs, MM CC Plates - Chrome

13.8 @102.4
Worst time ever posted by a Cobra -- Must be the driver
Screw 1/4 mile ... You can catch me at ORC or AutoX


'65 Mustang Convertible, F150 FX4, '04 SVT Focus ZX5
SnkBtn99 is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 05:05 AM
Registered User
 
speedytang's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Marengo, Ohio.USA
Posts: 1,579
No insurance company I found on-line or calling will cover the car for any event that is not policed by state or federal agency. I was at Putnam Park watching a friend in his Supra and someone went to hot in a turn and hit the guard rail. The person who hit the guard rail could still drive the car and on the way home hit the guard rail on the freeway and put it on his insurance. If you want to play I think you should understand the risk and remember even in a parking lot if you hit someone watching the event your auto insurance will not cover and you will be alone to cover the cost of life. If the event is not at a track that the track insurance covers human life you will be covering it yourself. I checked around on this because I wanted to host a event in my area but instead I am looking into renting MidOhio next spring .
speedytang is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 07:50 AM
Registered User
 
ScarSnake's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrew
Its very very rare that their is ever and incident.
I saw four incidents this year alone. Two Hondas, one totalled (no great loss), one late model M3 (one side bashed in, SB repairable), and a beautiful 01 Corvette Z06 with a 383 stroker Lingenfelter (also repairable).

At Mosport, its a good day if no one goes home on a flatbed.
The problem here is, not only will the insurance company not cover you, if they ever hear that you're participating in these activities, they'll drop you in a heartbeat. This is a real problem for people in Rallys. You need insurance to participate in Rallys on public roads, but if you participate in a Rally, your insurance gets cancelled.

However, there is an effort underway to create Motorsport Insurance. This is a group policy, with specified waiver and conditions. Particularly with regard to the Death Benefit. My understanding is that there is no way for the Insurance co to waive the death benefit for being on track, unless it is specified in the policy. We're getting pretty close to having this insurance available, hopefully in time for next season.

1997 Pacific Green Mustang SVT Cobra
ScarSnake is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 08:12 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sandy Spring, MD
Posts: 63
My insurance (Geico) when I called to add my f350 they asked why. I told them to tow my car (mistake). Two weeks later when I was a work they came out to house and somebody let them into the garage to take pictures of my 1993 cobra. The car had two sets of hoosiers on extra rims and race stickers on the car. They then called me to tell me they do not cover race cars. I explained that the car is in SOLO events no chance of accident, but they do not care. So now I got a 2004 mach 1 but will not let them know what is up with that car. I now am getting ready to sell the cobra that was just done 6 month's ago.
MUSTANGCOBRA1353 is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 09:08 AM
Registered User
 
Han Solo's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Miccosukee, FL
Posts: 1,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUSTANGCOBRA1353
My insurance (Geico) when I called to add my f350 they asked why. I told them to tow my car (mistake). Two weeks later when I was a work they came out to house and somebody let them into the garage to take pictures of my 1993 cobra. The car had two sets of hoosiers on extra rims and race stickers on the car. They then called me to tell me they do not cover race cars. I explained that the car is in SOLO events no chance of accident, but they do not care. So now I got a 2004 mach 1 but will not let them know what is up with that car. I now am getting ready to sell the cobra that was just done 6 month's ago.
Not trying to hijack the topic but did Geico give you any written evidence to discontinue the insurance on this car or did they cancel your insurance on it?

The reason I ask is I am considering changing to them. They actually let me have a copy of their policy to review in making my decision and it seemed to be a plain language understandable document. I didn't find anything in it about specific use other than farm equipment and nothing about policed roads or anything like that.

My current insurance (Allstate) says they only cover vehicles being operated on public roads. I argued that would mean my car wasn't covered on the 100 yd. stretch of driveway to my house or in my yard. He said that wasn't the intent of the restriction and the car would be covered in my driveway and yard. In other words they use language that they can pick and choose how to interpit.
Han Solo is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 09:22 AM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sandy Spring, MD
Posts: 63
Nothing in writting just over the phone the would not re-insure the cobra, but will cover until the time to renew, but the other cars are still okay. They said they do not cover race cars. They have been great to work with until this.

MUSTANGCOBRA1353 is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 05:09 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Almost Philly
Posts: 1,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrew
If its an educational event like a driving school where and instructor is teaching you its usually covered. But most will drop you like a bad habit. Its very very rare that their is ever and incident. Just OT at tracks with not too many walls.

But boy, look out when there is a wreck:

http://www.pbase.com/atrltd/bric2005


XBL - ReefBlue

Built on 8-18-1993 exterior-PD, interior-D6. 1 of 1,316.
ReefBlue is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 05:13 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kabul Afghanistan
Posts: 214
This was a vintage race at Road America. About as far from an open track event as you can get and still be in the same reality.

#26 ITE
2005 KCR SCCA ROTY
TennGT is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 09-28-2005, 08:29 PM
Registered User
 
Han Solo's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Miccosukee, FL
Posts: 1,417
There is a company that writes Drivers Ed insurance for the BMW and Porsche clubs track events. It doesn't include liability, just damage coverage for your car. They are very reasonable too but I couldn't get them to write me for a NASA HPDE. They said they had never heard of it and didn't think the format would meet their standards. According to some of the NASA folks the BMW club format is almost identical to HPDE. I tried to interest some of the NASA people in getting up with this company and try to sell them on writing for NASA members but they didn't show any interest in doing that. To be realistic as long as the HPDE page on the NASA site has a NASA Pro Racing banner on it and not more details relating to how they run a HPDE the company would probably never feel it is a good gamble. I think they should rename HPDE to be High Performance Driver Education instead of Experience.

Anyways here is a link to their drivers ed coverage info. http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_quali.htm

Last edited by Han Solo; 09-28-2005 at 08:33 PM.
Han Solo is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 09-30-2005, 07:33 AM
Registered User
 
huesmann's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC burbs, MD side
Posts: 6,894
Anyone who moves to Geico does so only until their next incident (traffic citation or accident). Then they'll drop you like a hot potato.
huesmann is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 10-07-2005, 10:13 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 329
My friend totaled an NSX at Heartland Park and got paid. The event was listed as drivers education. I have always understood if it is timed (like a drag strip) then it is considered racing.

I hate Geico.
WARP1 is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 10-17-2005, 09:50 PM
Registered User
 
Scot_94GT's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 103
So if my insurance finds out that I AutoX my car, they will drop my insurance? Isn't the point of signing the waiver at the track supposed to wash the ins. co. hands of all responsibility to pay for damage? If so, then why would they care if I race it?

Modifications worth noting:
Cobra brakes, BBK headers, H&Rs, Bilstiens
Scot_94GT is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 10-17-2005, 11:08 PM
MFE
Super Moderator
 
MFE's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (9)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 27,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot_94GT
So if my insurance finds out that I AutoX my car, they will drop my insurance?
Have you read nothing in this thread?

Quote:
Isn't the point of signing the waiver at the track supposed to wash the ins. co. hands of all responsibility to pay for damage? If so, then why would they care if I race it?
The release you sign is an attempt by the organizers and their insurers to hold the organizers and the facility harmless for any injury to person or property incurred while you're on site. Your insurance company is free to count that behavior against you in whatever arcane matrix of advanced math they use as actuarial calculations. Much like you get higher life insurance rates if you're a smoker, your insurance company may be able to support with numbers a claim that people who engage in motorsports activities of whatever sort represent high enough real-world risk of damage outside the confines of of the motorsport as to make you an unreasonable overall insurance risk.

Don't shoot the messenger.
MFE is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 10-18-2005, 11:11 PM
Registered User
 
Scot_94GT's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 103
Seems kinda BS, since (at least in MN) you are required by law to have car insurance. IMO, it should be illegal to raise ins. rates or drop customers since such legislations exists. Another reason I HATE insurance companies.

Modifications worth noting:
Cobra brakes, BBK headers, H&Rs, Bilstiens
Scot_94GT is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 10-19-2005, 08:18 AM
Registered User
 
huesmann's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC burbs, MD side
Posts: 6,894
I doubt the law is put in place to protect insurance companies (although clearly it provides them with customers). I think it's more of a protection for consumers/drivers. If there were an assload of uninsured drivers out there, insurance would cost more for those who actually bought insurance, to cover accidents that happen with the uninsured. Hell, there are enough (illegally) uninsured drivers out there as it is.
huesmann is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 10-26-2005, 03:30 AM
Registered User
 
Nitrous SSC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 7,196
I talked with my state farm agent about this involving both drag racing and auto-x. He said "nope you're not covered and we didn't have this conversation" So I'm guessing its a touchy subject.

Matt, 90' GT 347, 6037 heads, V1 Si-trim, 11psi, B31 Cam, T56, SV Intake, BE/Tweecer Tuned. 550rwhp 513tq
Bonneville 130 club member. (139.993) [email protected] in the 1/4.
03' Sonic Blue Cobra 497rwhp 481tq
13' Taurus SHO Performance PackDaily
Nitrous SSC is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 10-27-2005, 05:47 PM
Registered User
 
Scot_94GT's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
I talked with my state farm agent about this involving both drag racing and auto-x. He said "nope you're not covered and we didn't have this conversation" So I'm guessing its a touchy subject.
haha.. I guess I'll just stick to my story that the car only get's driven on nice days on the weekend and to car shows.

Modifications worth noting:
Cobra brakes, BBK headers, H&Rs, Bilstiens
Scot_94GT is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 10-27-2005, 06:19 PM
Registered User
 
Nitrous SSC's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (7)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 7,196
Exactly. If it gets wrecked on the track I'll say a midget stole it.

Matt, 90' GT 347, 6037 heads, V1 Si-trim, 11psi, B31 Cam, T56, SV Intake, BE/Tweecer Tuned. 550rwhp 513tq
Bonneville 130 club member. (139.993) [email protected] in the 1/4.
03' Sonic Blue Cobra 497rwhp 481tq
13' Taurus SHO Performance PackDaily
Nitrous SSC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome