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post #1 of 49 Old 08-11-2005, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Are coil overs worth it?

Found a sweet deal on some and I'm thinking of doing front/rear coil overs.

Getting bounced around by my saleen progressive rate springs is lame. They sag in the back so I've got spacers in the coils which makes it ride harder.

I've read that you can have your cake and eat it to with coil overs being better for handling AND ride.


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post #2 of 49 Old 08-11-2005, 04:24 PM
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New or used?? A sweet deal is not a great thing on a key ingrediant of your suspension. Do some research on the Max.Motorsport site and Griggs as these are the leaders in quality parts.
Cheap stuff will not last, need replacement(if the vendor is still around) or perhaps fail.
You will see their stuff is is not cheap when compared to others, but you'll be buying only once.
You'll also get the best tech support too.

Not affiliated in anyway with either vendor.

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Found a sweet deal on some and I'm thinking of doing front/rear coil overs...~


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post #3 of 49 Old 08-11-2005, 04:56 PM
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I'd have to echo the previous post, who's coil overs are these? If they are from a reputable maker then front coil overs are a big step up in handling and flexibility. Rears are probably not as critical and not something I have done to my car yet.

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post #4 of 49 Old 08-11-2005, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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They are MMR's

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post #5 of 49 Old 08-11-2005, 09:39 PM
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Matt I've got MMR parts on my mustang (7qt oil pan) so I won't instantly pull out the stock response, "Maximum or Griggs". However there are two issues; 1st do you know of anyone racing, open tracking or autoxing their mustang with MMR coil overs? I don't so that would be one no. 2nd go to either of the above manufacturers websites and you'll get three pages of tech and install instructions on their coilover kits, on MMR's website we get one short paragraph. From what I can see Mark makes good stuff, however I'd go with what is proven to work.

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post #6 of 49 Old 08-11-2005, 11:53 PM
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We are forgetting one MAJOR part of the recipe. What struts will you be using? When you use coil-overs, usually (depending on the spring rate chosen) the wheel rates are increased. Without the proper dampening, your ride quality will decrease.

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post #7 of 49 Old 08-12-2005, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Monroe GP forumula struts/shocks.

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post #8 of 49 Old 08-12-2005, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
Monroe GP forumula struts/shocks.

I hate my GPs. Maybe that's just because I have them mated to super-stiff C springs, but I still dont think they'd be a good choice for a coil over set up.
That's just my uneducated opinion though.

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post #9 of 49 Old 08-13-2005, 12:16 AM
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What are you doing with this car?
Is it just a street car which you drive fairly hard, or do you actually race it on a closed course track, or do you auto x it?

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post #10 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 09:55 AM
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MMR 's with Strange adjustable struts here.

Latta

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post #11 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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street car with some auto-xing

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post #12 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 03:12 PM
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coilovers have a few advantages over the stock setup:

* lighter
* better motion ratio
* more adjustable

you can use the flexibility of coilovers to fix ride height, improve ride and improve cornering performance. however, they are not magic. if you don't have the right shock/strut and spring combination, you won't get the results that you want. dampers are a key piece of the puzzle. if you don't have good caster/camber plates, they are important for coilovers. ...good luck!

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post #13 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
Monroe GP forumula struts/shocks.
What spring rates are you looking at? From what I have seen, they are okay up to 300# front coil-overs. Anything after that and you will be underdampened. Personally, I like Bilsteins. Since your car is a street car with some autocrossing, then Bilsteins will match your needs very nicely. Even if you dont get the Bilsteins, I would look for some other dampeners that the GPs for coil-overs.

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post #14 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Whats the price's of bilsteins.

Street/Handling Front and rear kit - $299 (350lb x 12 Front-150lb x 10 rear)

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post #15 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 07:38 PM
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Bilsteins are around $550 for a set. Maximum Motorsports makes specific coil-over kits for the Bilstein shocks and struts. I am not sure on how well the MMR kits will work with the Bilsteins.

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post #16 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oktavius
Bilsteins are around $550 for a set. Maximum Motorsports makes specific coil-over kits for the Bilstein shocks and struts. I am not sure on how well the MMR kits will work with the Bilsteins.
They more than likely will not work with Bilsteins. Bilstein uses a different diameter shock and strut body than KYB, Koni or Tokico.

Not only that, but I would be very apprehensive of buying the MMR stuff unless I knew more about the rear coil over mounting system. All the low priced rear coilover kits I have seen have a pretty crappy mounting system that puts a bending load on the shock in a one-wheel bump situation;not the best setup for street or road course use. With a drag car that has no lateral loads you can get by with it, on a car that sees cornering forces something is going to get broken or worn out in a real hurry. For cornering you want a spherical mount at the top of the rear shock to allow the shock to rotate without putting a bending load on the shaft. Personally, I would much rather use a weight jacking style lower rear arm on conventional springs than a poorly engineered coil over kit.
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post #17 of 49 Old 08-15-2005, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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So maybe get front coil overs and a panhard bar for the back?

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post #18 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 03:21 AM
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maybe instead of going with subpar coilovers which may or may not match your shocks,
you should look into a set of bilsteins or Koni shocks/struts. As for the sag in the rear, Kenny brown sells a spacer to put between your springs and the LCA to add height. MM also sells polyurethane spring isolators that are slightly thicker then the mangled stock rubber isolators.
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post #19 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentor
As for the sag in the rear, Kenny brown sells a spacer to put between your springs and the LCA to add height. MM also sells polyurethane spring isolators that are slightly thicker then the mangled stock rubber isolators.
But thats still a "band-aid" not a real fix.

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post #20 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 11:59 AM
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well the "real fix" is to get the full MM bilstein coilover package. actually the real fix to the crapy mustang suspension is to get the full MM pahhard bar/torque arm package with Kmember swap, even that is a bandaid compared to the SLA conversion from griggs. where does it end? all mustang suspension mods are bandaids.

what I suggested is less of a bandaid and will give you better results then sticking with your old shocks and buying a coilover kit that you're gonna throw away, and if you want to upgrade to a MM c/o kit later on, will give you a better foundation (better shocks/struts) to build on.
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post #21 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Makes sense.

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post #22 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 12:40 PM
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I'm with Serpentor, a good set of shocks and struts will do more for your ride and handling than the coil overs. If you decide you want to take the plunge down that slippery slope of more modifications, then you will have a good starting point.
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post #23 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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How about KYB's?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
How about KYB's?
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post #25 of 49 Old 08-16-2005, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
How about KYB's?
I havent heard good things about them.
I would either go with Koni's or Bilsteins, they cost more but they are worth the price.
with all the mods and $$ you've spent on your motor, you should not go cheap on your suspension.
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post #26 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 01:30 PM
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Thread hijack:

I've got a set of MM coilovers that I installed a few months ago, and I've been having a lot of occasional noise from the LF one. It's kind of a grinding noise and happens when something in the steering or suspension is moving, like turning or going over a bump. I've replaced the control arms, so I know it's not the balljoints or LCA bushings. I've swapped the C/Os from left to right, and then the bearing plates on the C/C plates from left to right (from "positive" orientation to "negative"). Noise goes away for a day or two then comes back, and only on the driver's side. Have not yet swapped tie rods or ends.

Are these kinds of noises common with the MM kit?
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post #27 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huesmann
Thread hijack:

I've got a set of MM coilovers that I installed a few months ago, and I've been having a lot of occasional noise from the LF one. It's kind of a grinding noise and happens when something in the steering or suspension is moving, like turning or going over a bump. I've replaced the control arms, so I know it's not the balljoints or LCA bushings. I've swapped the C/Os from left to right, and then the bearing plates on the C/C plates from left to right (from "positive" orientation to "negative"). Noise goes away for a day or two then comes back, and only on the driver's side. Have not yet swapped tie rods or ends.

Are these kinds of noises common with the MM kit?
I've had a similar noise, on both sides, and for me it originated from the upper spring perch. It took me FOREVER to diagnose! Try spraying grease though the opening of your caster camber plates to the top of the spring perch and see if it gets rid of it. MM sent me a new set of upper spring perch under warrenty.. they rock!!!
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post #28 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 03:18 PM
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If you don't have enough spacers above the upper spring perch the perch can drag on the strut tower during suspension motion. I would give that a good look and see if it is the problem. I also went a step further and used some custom cut nylatron shims between the hypercoils and spring perches to eliminate any chafing. My coil overs make no noise at all. I did have to get some helper coils for the fronts so that the spring did not separate from the perch when the suspension was unloaded. I may have to do the same thing on my rears as well since they separate about 3/4" when unloaded.
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post #29 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOKIC...92192254QQrdZ1

How about these guys?

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post #30 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
Those Tokicos where the first set of dampeners I had on my car. They are fine for light spring rates. I used them with H&R Race springs. Definitely underdampened. The Tokicos are one of the mods I wish I didnt buy. Should of just spent the money for the Bils. Right now I have the MM race-valved Bilsteins and am definitely happy with them.

My brother has the Tokico Illuminas on his '95 GT with the Steeda Sport springs. Those are a nice match for the street/autocross. I wouldnt use stiff coil-over springs with them though.

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post #31 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'd like to keep the Saleen springs I have now...I don't know what their rates are. I know they are progressives.

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post #32 of 49 Old 08-17-2005, 09:08 PM
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This was the original concern...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
Getting bounced around by my saleen progressive rate springs is lame. They sag in the back so I've got spacers in the coils which makes it ride harder. I've read that you can have your cake and eat it to with coil overs being better for handling AND ride.
So after many experienced people have given you advice on coil overs you wanted to install, why are we back here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC
I'd like to keep the Saleen springs I have now...I don't know what their rates are.
Not only that, you have gotten very good input on which shocks and struts are the best deal for the money and yet you still don't get it. Here it is in plain english.

Stock springs work with stock or stock replacement shocks/struts.
Perfomance springs need performance shocks/struts matched to the spring rates. If you want to run the Tokicos, which are decent, use stock spring rates. If you want to use higher rate performance springs get the correct shock/strut combo to work with them, Bilsteins or Konis. You may get by with Illuminas if you stay with a less aggresive spring. You can't cheap out and get good ride AND good performance. Decide what you want the car to do then spend the frakking money it takes to get there.
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post #33 of 49 Old 08-18-2005, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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Koni's are a grand from what I found. I'd rather spend that on the 5-lug/brakes/wheels. I'm not a freaking expert in this field, I don't know a damn thing. I have 0 clue about "spring rates" or "damping rates"

I guess I'll just wait till I spent 3-4k on the suspension and then make a post.

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post #34 of 49 Old 08-18-2005, 04:11 AM
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this is my advice, you dont have to follow it but you wont regret it if you do. just spend a few hundred more and get the bilsteins. They are $600 for the whole set from MM, you might be able to find cheaper if you look hard enough on the web.
The Tok Illuminas might be ok too, but for the the Bil's are only like a hundred more.
why skimp on the suspension when you got a baddass drivetrain.
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post #35 of 49 Old 08-18-2005, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
If you don't have enough spacers above the upper spring perch the perch can drag on the strut tower during suspension motion. I would give that a good look and see if it is the problem. I also went a step further and used some custom cut nylatron shims between the hypercoils and spring perches to eliminate any chafing. My coil overs make no noise at all. I did have to get some helper coils for the fronts so that the spring did not separate from the perch when the suspension was unloaded. I may have to do the same thing on my rears as well since they separate about 3/4" when unloaded.
you got any extra nylatron shims? :-D Actually I'm ok with it, no chafing there. I was thinking about just cutting up some rubber sheets and putting it between the spring perch and the spring for noise isolation, but I doubt it'll make much difference.

As for the grinding noise, mine definatly wasnt from contact with the shock towers. When I took it apart, the gold annodization was fine on top, but there was a ring of worn area betweent the top piece and the thrust washer cup piece of the upper spring perch. (and when I put grease on it, the noise went away) anyway the noise is gone now.

Last edited by Serpentor; 08-18-2005 at 04:21 AM.
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