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post #1 of 24 Old 07-26-2005, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Objective advice needed

Hi. I love my 1990 Mustang GT convertible! But I have to decide...Sell the car and buy a more competitive car or keep it and make it competitive...

1. Sell it. I could get about $3.5k for it, (needs a new top and has 160k miles). Putting it back to stock and selling the konis and other misc mods would yield a few bucks as well.

Then put that money towards an FS Cobra or...I hate to say it...a CS Miata.

2. Make it competitive. That'll be tough. With SFCs and 4.10s it's in the CP class and is not yet a competitive ESP car. To make it competitive it would need TA/PHB, brake upgrade, springs, weight loss, engine beefing and more.

So please help me decide. Keep the car I love or sell it and move into a competive car the easy way.

Thanks in advance,
Vic

PS-Can I make my stang into a roadster, ie remove windows, PW, top and misc, and still be in CP?


1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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post #2 of 24 Old 07-26-2005, 06:36 PM
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Is the car paid for? If yes than your cost are already smaller than selling and buying somthing else. At least you know what you have to work with.

Plus pending on the shape of the top mechanism and everything coming off you should do pretty good on ebay. Buddy of mine just sold a stock automatic shifter for $100 on ebay. You will probably recoup alot of money out of the mustang to use towards modifications.

I also Highly recommend you make a plan and add a little by little to relearn the car with each new piece. Plus it will be more affordable. No matter what you buy you will have to get each car up to speed with the basic needs.

I purchased a convertible to build a racecar out of. After you remove the roof, windows, replace the front window with lexan, get rid of the pumps and most the interior. Than install Long SFCs and a cage your flex is gone.


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post #3 of 24 Old 07-26-2005, 11:26 PM
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Vic,
I was in a similar situation a couple years ago. I had this 88 LX coupe that I loved, but it was a drag car. I was driving AX with my 95 Cobra and wanted to be morre competitive. I had to decide between keeping the Fox and reworking it from end to end or starting over. I almost bought a Miata. But I decided that I really liked the late model Mustangs, like my Cobra and that I had many years experience with Fords. I didn't want to start a totally new learning curve so I bought a reasonably priced 95 GT and went to work on it.

I slowly stripped down the Fox coupe and sold it piece by piece for considerably more than I would have gotten for it complete as a drag car. I took the proceeds from the parts and bought handlng parts for the GT. I replaced everything I took off the coupe with stock parts. Some things I could not easily undo, like the 6 point roll bar and modified rear end. I finally sold the coupe as a roller for $1400. I dropped the engine into the 95 and even though it is underpowered as a CP car it does pretty damed well.

It took a good deal of cash and a lot of work but I now have a street legal Mustang that is capable of thrashing a lot of high zoot cars on an AX course. I am always in the hunt for TTD in regional events. It doesn't have A/C or a stereo but it seldom sees the street anyway. I'm happy with my decision.
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 08:06 AM
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I autox with Glenn......his car is a beast. Take his word as gospel.
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post #5 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
I almost bought a Miata.
The horror! The horror!

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post #6 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 11:18 AM
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Right now spec miata is like the borg, "you will be assimilated". Its hard to argue when there are 43 car fields every other regional race. As much as I love my V8 there is alot of racing for the money there.

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post #7 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Just got back from the National Tour in WA. Not many Mustangs and no fox bodies out of 211 entries.

Glenn, 2 question. Besides the front spindles and rear disks what other advantages does your '95 have over the 90? If I remove my top, can I stay in CP?

I've got one vote to keep and one vote to sell. Anyone else?

1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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post #8 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livenfine
Glenn, 2 question. Besides the front spindles and rear disks what other advantages does your '95 have over the 90?
Stiffer chassis
Larger wheel wells (room for more rubber)
ABS
Electric cooling fan standard
Better front geometry (more available caster & camber)
Better looks

With a 94-95 model you can modify anything on the engine you can to a Fox for the same money or close. The 96+ cars, the 4.6 engine has a higher center of gravity, is heavier than the 5.0 and several times more expensive to modify. I did my homework before I chose a car to build.

If you want a cheap, fun autocross car you can build a Miata for SP class for less and it is less costly in terms of tires and brakes. But there is just something about a Ford V-8 singing at 6000 RPM that you just gotta love! Not only that the looks on the faces of all the Z06 and Porsche drivers you just smoked makes it worth the price of admission.
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post #9 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
Better looks
Boo...Hiss...

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post #10 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigBlackCoupe
Boo...Hiss...

OK, OK, looks are subjective.....but mine is gonna look killer with the new hood, bumper and spoiler once I get it painted to match.

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post #11 of 24 Old 07-27-2005, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
ABS
Better front geometry (more available caster & camber)
These two are biggies in my book.

But, if I sell, I'm going to stay in the stock classes for now. FS Mustang, HS Civic SI or an ES or CS Miata.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
But there is just something about a Ford V-8 singing at 6000 RPM that you just gotta love! Not only that the looks on the faces of all the Z06 and Porsche drivers you just smoked makes it worth the price of admission.
Exactly.
V

1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livenfine
If I remove my top, can I stay in CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by livenfine
But, if I sell, I'm going to stay in the stock classes for now. FS Mustang, HS Civic SI or an ES or CS Miata.
Looks like it's going to be tough to have both worlds, you may have to be slower now(stock class) to get what you want later(prepared class). FWIW, i'd sell the vert and get a 95 if it was my call, for many of the reasons cited by Glenn - the biggest being I'm a mustang fan and prefer to stay with something mustang.

Off topic of sorts - Glenn, i just peaked at your DynoSheet, what numbers are non-underpowered CP cars planting down in your region????

-- Kyle
'92 LX Convertible (now a Lemons race car)
'90 LX Coupe (HPDE track car)
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post #13 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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I checked with SCCA.

Tops can be removed in CP.

How hard is it to add ABS to my fox body?

Vic

1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtStang
Looks like it's going to be tough to have both worlds, you may have to be slower now(stock class) to get what you want later(prepared class).
We pax

1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtStang
Off topic of sorts - Glenn, i just peaked at your DynoSheet, what numbers are non-underpowered CP cars planting down in your region????
I don't really have a problem within my region (CFR), I can win CP at anytime and usually outrun BP and sometimes even AP. In south Florida there is a built to th elimit of the rules CP Camaro with an automatic that puts down over 360RWHP and is lighter than me. We have met twice and so far it's a split. I have nothing to be ashamed of though sinnce my car is still street legal, tagged and insured.

By being underpowered I am meaning I don't have the 400+ that national caliber cars have. I'm workng a solution to that, however.

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post #16 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfloz
The horror! The horror!
Umm yeah, thank God I came to my senses!
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post #17 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn
In south Florida there is a built to th elimit of the rules CP Camaro with an automatic that puts down over 360RWHP and is lighter than me.
hmmm, sounds familiar. anything like this...

I had seen his times in the results a few times, didn't realize the power he was putting down. He was ESP last year right? I've been away for a while, just wanted to know who-is-who before i dive back into the pool.

And LivenFine, please. Whatever you do. Don't go Civic Si on us son. That's just wrong.

-- Kyle
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtStang
hmmm, sounds familiar. anything like this...

I had seen his times in the results a few times, didn't realize the power he was putting down. He was ESP last year right? I've been away for a while, just wanted to know who-is-who before i dive back into the pool.
Yeah, that's Carl Couric's car and no, he was CP and drove it in the Nats last year to seventh place. He bought the car pretty much as is from a guy named Vitek something or other maybe 2 years ago. He beat me by about a second on a 30 second course in Fort Pierce last year when I was on my old and smaller tires and wheels. I ran against him again in November at the state champs in Brooksville on a rain dampened course and put the smack on him while wearing my new 10.5" CCW's with V-710's. He was having some serious mental errors on the slick course and essentially beat himself, as I wasn't doing as well as I should have either. In any event I feel that I need to be able to beat him, heads up, on a dry course, to even consider going to a National. I made a few changes to my suspension this week and will be testing and dialing in in Ft. Pierce Saturday. The new engine will be going in later.

Quote:
And LivenFine, please. Whatever you do. Don't go Civic Si on us son. That's just wrong.
You got that right...and it would be just sooo wrong in sooo many ways!!
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post #19 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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I prefer the looks of the 90, so if I stay Mustang, how's this for a plan:

Remove all convertible top components/strip interior
Larger wheel wells (room for more rubber)-Flared fenders
ABS-found this link-https://www.corral.net/tech/handling/abs.html[/QUOTE]
Electric cooling fan standard- I can add this
Better front geometry (more available caster & camber)- MM K-member

All CP legal

1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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post #20 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 10:05 PM
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FS Cobra - I've ran my GT in F Stock this season and I've managed to make it out to a National Tour, a Pro Solo, and a divisional. I've found it to be frustrating. It it tempting to mod, hard to put down power, you spend a lot on tires to not go very fast (in relation to other classes), and results at higher levels suggest it is an uphill battle against Camaros.

CS/ES Miata - I'm sure it'd be a blast, but I personally don't like convertibles and wouldn't want to drive a Miata on the street. Another thing to consider is the upcoming Miata may upset the hierarchy in one or both of these classes.

HS Civic - If you chose this route, STS would be a better option. You are more competitive within your class, go faster, spend less on tires, and you get to tinker with stuff.

How about an ESP Cobra? If I had the budget, that is what I'd want to put together/run.
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post #21 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjrife1
How about an ESP Cobra? If I had the budget, that is what I'd want to put together/run.
Sorry, Steve, I beg to differ here. With the Evo and STi drivers starting to really get their cars sorted out now, ESP is not much of a playground for pony cars anymore. Hell an A Stock Evo with a good driver will typically smoke the ESP class in our region. Heaven only knows why an A Stock car moves up (PAX is better in ESP than AS) to ESP once it's modified, but that's just the way it is. Let them do the typical ESP mods and they will eat a Mustang for lunch and not even burp.

For F Stock I think possibly the new Mustangs and the Mach 1 has a chance. But these are rather expensive options for a weekend toy car. If the SS and WS-6 get moved to FS, as proposed, the older Mustangs can hang it up.

Last edited by Glenn; 07-28-2005 at 10:34 PM.
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post #22 of 24 Old 07-28-2005, 11:54 PM
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I wouldn't worry about the rally cars much longer unless I had a BSP car.
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post #23 of 24 Old 07-29-2005, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjrife1
I wouldn't worry about the rally cars much longer unless I had a BSP car.
They were going to move them this past year but the rule change was rescinded. Do you really feel the rule change will go through again?

I'd like to see them allow K-members in SM, then my car would be a legal SM car, it isn't really a CP but the rules sort of force me to compete in CP.
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post #24 of 24 Old 07-29-2005, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your help! Sorting through all this info is what I need to do to make a good decision. Having a cool autocross car is good. But it's got to be able to compete as well.

1990 Mustang GT Triple black convertible
koni yellows-FS on ebay MM cc plates-FS, $130

full length SFCs, aluminum d/s, 4.10s. 5 lug, O/R H, Flowmaster, Pro 5.0 shifter. Stock engine. 14.4 @96
Yeah, I'm retiring the old 5.0 from autocross
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