Increasing initial brake "bite" - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 10-22-2018, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Increasing initial brake "bite"

While doing auto-x on Saturday I wondered how I could get my brakes to start having an initial bite feeling like my newer SHO and F-150. The pedal requires more travel. I never had any fade issues even when they started lapping us with only about 10 minutes between runs. I know I'm asking a lot of a 30 year old car with a braking system from 1994.

My brake setup is this.
M-2300-k (94-95 Cobra)
Hawk HPS Pads, I run them for street/auto-x then HP+ for open track.
Stainless front lines and stainless over axle line. Rear hardline to caliper lines are rubber still.
Fluid is a few years old. Not much event driving on it. Two auto-x and 3 days of 1/4 drag strip stops. I plan on bleeding it asap.

I have a chance to score some front Baer T4 calipers that will plug and play. Worth while upgrade? I can get them for around $750. Or I can spend a little more and get some 6P's Both will fit under my 17" wheel and let me continue using 13" rotors. I don't want to go too overkill as well, it is still a street car 90% of the time. I'd like to get some Brembo calipers but people are asking 1k+ for a pair of the friggin things.


Thanks guys.


Matt, 90' GT 347, 6037 heads, V1 Si-trim, 11psi, B31 Cam, T56, SV Intake, BE/Tweecer Tuned. 550rwhp 513tq
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post #2 of 8 Old 10-22-2018, 03:07 PM
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A different pad compound would be the obvious fix IMO. I know some will disagree with me, but I think the HPS pads are garbage and are the root of your problem. There are plenty of more aggressive street compounds - your HP+s being one example - that you could try.


'89 GT convertible, N/A 357W, MM front susp w/425# coil-overs and Koni D/As, MM TA/PB rear setup (Koni Yellows, 390-430# springs), Stoptech 332mm / 12" Baers, MM 6 point rollbar, Maier 1.5" flared fenders & quarters, 18x9.5" front/18x10.5" rear Enkei RPF-1s (street), 18x10" CCW C-10s (track), etc...
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post #3 of 8 Old 10-22-2018, 07:28 PM
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Adjust the rod clearance into the master cylinder with less play.
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post #4 of 8 Old 10-23-2018, 07:48 PM
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I agree that the HPS pads are total garbage. I have have decent luck with the HP-Plus though. They are hard on rotors, and make lots of dust.

When my current set of pads is done, I plan to try the ST47 pad.
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post #5 of 8 Old 10-23-2018, 09:54 PM
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Another Idea

Have you considered changing master cylinder bore size? Can have an impact not only effectiveness of your brakes but also alter the feel of the pedal. Do you know what size is in your car now? Bigger bore will move more fluid immediately.

BTW most of Maximum Motorsports swap kits + master cylinder would be around $150.

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post #6 of 8 Old 10-24-2018, 01:00 AM
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Changing the m/c diameter will not have any affect on the rate of brake assist.

The car either needs brake pads with more bite or a vacuum booster with a more nonlinear crack behavior.

HPS pads already have pretty good initial bite. HP+ definitely have a lot of initial bite, but they squeal, so I don't use them for street use.

Installing a 1993 Mustang Cobra brake booster, will give the brakes more initial bite as this booster is designed to have a more nonlinear crack behavior. The very small initial movement of the brake pedal gives quite a bit of brake assist. This makes it difficult to stop the car smoothly and feels Powerful. It impresses people during test drives, so many modern cars are setup this way. It is very similar to the throttle mapping on GDI engines. The throttle mapping is generally setup to be very sensitive as people think that this means that the engine is more powerful. Once you actually drive the car a few weeks, you grow sick of this as your foot cramps up trying to make very small adjustments of the throttle pedal. You wish that the mapping was normal.

It is not a good idea to setup the brakes on a car without ABS to have a lot of bite. Modern cars can get away with this because they have ABS and electronic brake proportioning. In a panic situation, these are going to save the driver from the overly boosted system. If you setup a non ABS car with a lot of bite, it may feel good initially, but as soon as you get into a panic situation, you are going to lock up all four tires the entire time and have much longer stopping distances.

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post #7 of 8 Old 10-24-2018, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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I’ve already got 93 cobra+ hardware that came in my M-2300-K kit. It has the bigger booster and MC. I really like HP+ pads but I only run them when at the big track. They are too damn loud and dusty for street driving. I’d like to avoid needing to do a pad swap just for Autox because they are almost every weekend and when I go it’s usually the night before opportunity with my schedule. I’ll check the rod adjustment. Again, no complaints on fade at all. My friend was there and towards the end of the day his was fading like crazy and practically smoking. Mine didn’t stink and weren’t any hotter than a good street flogging. I just put fresh HPS pads in so I think once they and my HP+ are toast I’ll use funds to just put bigger/better calipers in. T4’s look like a good deal.

Thanks for the info everyone. Sounds like the nut behind the wheel just needs to adapt better to switching vehicles. I totally get what you mean Jack. I can’t stand modern drive by wire pedal/TB ratios. In the mean time I’ll probably just get some steel lines for the rear.

Matt, 90' GT 347, 6037 heads, V1 Si-trim, 11psi, B31 Cam, T56, SV Intake, BE/Tweecer Tuned. 550rwhp 513tq
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post #8 of 8 Old 12-23-2018, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous SSC View Post
While doing auto-x on Saturday I wondered how I could get my brakes to start having an initial bite feeling like my newer SHO and F-150.
Take a look at the EBC Yellow Stuff. I use them on my street Fox body which has the 13" Cobra front brakes. SAME EXACT stopping power as the HP+ with WAAAAAY better initial bite especially in cold weather ( 30-40 degrees here ). They don't need much pedal pressure either. Even better they don't dust much (they still dust, a little more than OEM but not nearly as ridiculous as the HP+ does), and their dust isn't corrosive to rims. I don't track this car, but I did ten 60-0 hard stops in a row (on a closed, private road, of course!) and could detect only the very teeniest, slightest fade during the 9th and 10th stops. No doubt in my mind they would do well in autocross.
Nitrous SSC and 2dxtrm like this.

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