Advice between 05+GT or 11+V6 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 6 Old 10-01-2018, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Advice between 05+GT or 11+V6

Hello All, I need your help. Main objective for this car will be Track Days HPDE road course; an odd auto cross or 1/4 may sneak in but I will not build the car to do either of those. The car will not be my daily driver, only once in while and to/from track day events. I'll keep most creature comforts but am not opposed to making some deletion of interior items.

Ideal performance goal is a car capable of 1:40 or less at Mid-Ohio, even low 1:40's would be nice... I think, as I'll always be looking for lower times or outpacing some quicker car. I have a dedicated track car currently that I can drive 1:48's and with a good LSD and sway bars, plus driver mods could be as low as 1:44. It's a 93 EG Civic, a local SCCA guy in STL class runs 1:35's in his EG.... I'm not him.

My Wallet doesn't allow for a 2012+ Coyote, thus my reason to post here.

The 05-08 4.6 3v cars can be had fairly cheap and not far off are some of the more worn 2011 V6 cars. I know on paper they have similar specs and from the research I've done respond similarly to bolt on power mods.
* are the 2010/2011 4.6 cars better than the 05-09 cars? different body, but still SRA ??

Unfortunately I haven't found any information regarding pros/cons/potential for road racing / HPDE use between these two cars. Found plenty of talk amongst the drag racing crowds.

Greatly appreciate all the constructive input I can gain, this will be my winter project. Final track day is this coming Saturday afterward the Civic will be primped up and looking for a new home.

R.

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post #2 of 6 Old 10-03-2018, 10:49 PM
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The 2011 car has stronger spindles and ball joints. These were upgraded due to failures in track use. It also has revised UCA geometry. This makes the rear suspension better, but isn't really needed assuming you install RLCA relocation brackets, which are still needed. The early car has hydraulic power steering, which is an advantage over the EPAS in the 2011 car. The 2005-09 3V 4.6l engine is bullet proof for track use, provided you don't do anything stupid with it.


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post #3 of 6 Old 10-04-2018, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Jack, appreciate your time and knowledge here. I sort of think I'm splitting hairs so to speak between the 05-09 cars and the 2010/2011 cars. You commented on the 2011 cars; just to clarify are they the same as the 2010 cars? You're correct I will be making all the normal suspension/chassis/brake upgrades and likely beyond basic but not full on wheel to wheel competition race car level of upgrades.

Any advantage going with a 2011+ 3.7 car ?

Thanks,
Rich
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post #4 of 6 Old 10-05-2018, 04:07 PM
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The 2005-2010 cars have the smaller ball joint, weaker spindle and older UCA geometry. In 2011 this all changed.

The 2011 3.7l engine has more power than the previous V6, but aside from that I'm not aware of an advantage to it. From an engine standpoint, I would rather have a 4.6l 3V. They have more average power over the rpm band. The 4.6l makes about 40ft-lbs more torque than the 3.7l at 4krpm.

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post #5 of 6 Old 10-07-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg87 View Post
Hello All, I need your help. Main objective for this car will be Track Days HPDE road course; an odd auto cross or 1/4 may sneak in but I will not build the car to do either of those. The car will not be my daily driver, only once in while and to/from track day events. I'll keep most creature comforts but am not opposed to making some deletion of interior items.
It's not difficult to backfit the later UCA and chassis bracket to the early S197, so that one is really a non-issue.

One item I can think of is the gear ratios in the TR3650 - there's a relatively big jump from 2nd to 3rd (2.00 to 1.32), and another big one from 4th to 5th (1.00 to 0.68). 5th gear tends to fall flat, and with 3.55's or numerically higher in the axle 2nd isn't good to enough mph to be very useful either, assuming you're respecting a 6000-ish rev limit. Another is the semi-remote shifter mounting (partly supported off the transmission and partly off the body). These items can be helped, or at somewhat greater expense corrected.

You'll want to step up to the 14" SVT/GT500 Brembo front brakes. The 12.4-inch stockers will work, but everything will run hotter (and on bleeding the initial brake fluid comes out pretty dark after only three or four track sessions).

You'll want the Ford Performance hubs with the ARP studs, and replace the studs in the rear with ARP studs while you're at it.

Ultimately, you'll probably want a Torsen, as the Trak-loc will gradually work its way toward being a Trak-used-to-loc. The later-year Boss/Laguna Seca got the Torsen for a reason.


I've tracked my bought-new '08 off and on over the last few years without stripping anything out of it or doing anything to it that'd be too 'hardcore-track' for the street. But for a couple of reasons now, I think it needs a close-ratio 6-speed and a Torsen with 3.73's.




Norm

Mine: '08 GT, 5MT, black/light graphite, un-Fstock (DD, occasional track day)
Wife's: '10 Legacy 2.5GT (DD, six-speed manual)
Spare:'01 20AE Maxima, 5MT (also my bad weather alternate)
Various Loose Parts: '79 Malibu
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post #6 of 6 Old 10-28-2018, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your information Norm.

Apologize for the absence here, but I have updates.
Firstly I sold my Civic track car after the final HPDE event 3 weeks ago and have bought a Mustang this Monday the 22nd.

I ended up buying a 01' Cobra for cheap. little rough and the 4.6 4v engine has been replaced with a 97 4.6 2v. Has the TR3650, IRS, Cobra brakes and some Maximum Motorsports items: Camber/Caster plates, subframe connectors, Bilstein strut/shocks. Eibach springs, and some of the IRS bushings I can see have been upgraded; I haven't had time to fully investigate if a MM IRS kit has been installed.


SO... sorry for the switching it up from a S197 and going with a New Edge. Hoping I didn't make a mistake going with the older car.


My plan is to go through the entire suspension, steering, and brake systems making sure everything is functioning 100% and upgrading as needed. Then I'll move on to the IRS and differential and transmission. then finally to the engine which needs replaced or built for more go power... car is not all so quick. I'm curious is doing a 3v swap is a good idea, going back to what the car came with a 4v, or even doing a 351w swap. My goal is to have 10:1 weight to whp or better.
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