Quadra-Bind Rear Suspension - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 5Likes
  • 4 Post By Jack Hidley
  • 1 Post By qtrracer
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 Old 02-05-2018, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 2,333
Quadra-Bind Rear Suspension

Is there a relatively inexpensive setup to make it not suck? Sphericals in the axle end of the uppers?

Thinking about a MM panhard bar to tame side to side action, but not really wanting to go all in on a torque arm setup.

tjm73 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 02-05-2018, 05:54 PM
Registered User
 
Curt C's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: las vegas, nv
Posts: 766
PM3L


1986-045 Saleen Mustang Griggs GR40, 408W RDI aluminum block, AFR 205, T56
1999 Porsche 911 Carerra - Stock
1999 BMW M Coupe - Stock
Curt C is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 02-05-2018, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt C View Post
PM3L
I had to google this, but gives me something to read and think about.
tjm73 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 Old 02-05-2018, 08:44 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (11)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Posts: 4,123
I recently picked up an '82 Zephyr 2-door that will become a track car. What to do about the rear suspension has been bouncing around in my head. Part of me wants to do a Cobra IRS, but that really complicates wheel fitment - just not much room in the rear with the Fairmont/Zephyr body style. My grand plan in the long term is to flare it out, so maybe I'll do the IRS then.

So, if that's my long term plan, it doesn't seem to make much sense to go through all the work of installing the full TA/PHB setup. (With the way my projects progress, if I go as far as having a shop install the TA & PHB, I'm never gonna undo that. ) Thus, I've been thinking of trying the PM3L.

'89 GT convertible, N/A 357W, MM front susp w/425# coil-overs and Koni D/As, MM TA/PB rear setup (Koni Yellows, 390-430# springs), Stoptech 332mm / 12" Baers, MM 6 point rollbar, Maier 1.5" flared fenders & quarters, 18x9.5" front/18x10.5" rear Enkei RPF-1s (street), 18x10" CCW C-10s (track), etc...
Patrick Olsen is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 02-05-2018, 09:06 PM
Registered User
 
Jack Hidley's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (5)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Danville, CA USA
Posts: 2,976
Pat,

Call me if you want to discuss this further.

Just use wheels designed for an S197 car when installing an IRS. These wheels have plenty of back spacing. Use the same wheel in the front with a spacer. Problem solved.

Jack Hidley
Maximum Motorsports Tech Support
Jack Hidley is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 02-08-2018, 02:04 PM
Registered User
 
qtrracer's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,348
I ran a PM3L on the street, A/X and O/T for three seasons. As you know, this has to be used with a lateral control device - PHB or Watts. Mine was designed with rod-end spherical bushings on both ends. The system works very well, but does have draw-backs. First is cabin noise. The sphericals transfer gear noise into the cabin. If a track only car, this isn't a big deal. For a street cruiser it is. Next is chassis side damage to the torque box mounts and floor. I wasn't running big power (mild 302 no PA) and didn't drag race so this wasn't a problem for me. But those with more power, sticky R-comps/drag radials and perhaps drag launches in mind, would be wise to reinforce these areas. Finally, I was constantly checking the sphericals. There is such a high angle that I was afraid the ends would be put into bind and tear themselves up. The original fabricator tried to reduce the angle with custom spacers at both ends and single shear on the axle end (BIG fastener here). Damage did not occur and the bearings seem to be in good shape even after those three years of service (and this after a couple of track seasons from the original fabricator). However, had I not gone to the T/A I would have swapped them out for the next season.

The PM3L transformed the car's handling. For a quick and relatively cheap option, can't be beat. What's more, if planned correctly it's a legal mod for some SCCA classes.
qtrracer is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 02-08-2018, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 2,333
I have about 350 hp at the wheels and an equal amount a torque. I won't be going auto crossing and may go to the drag strip maybe 5 times in a year.

I had an '05 GT for a couple summers and I liked the ride. PM3L is pretty attractive.
tjm73 is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 02-09-2018, 09:02 PM
Registered User
 
qtrracer's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,348
For a Fox chassis alternative to the other more pricy options, the PM3L is a bargain. One just needs to check the system regularly.
qtrracer is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 02-10-2018, 12:44 AM
Registered User
 
Stew_Magoo's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayview, Wis
Posts: 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
Pat,

Call me if you want to discuss this further.

Just use wheels designed for an S197 car when installing an IRS. These wheels have plenty of back spacing. Use the same wheel in the front with a spacer. Problem solved.

Wheels become less of an issue if you broaden your horizons beyond commonly used Mustang wheels, specificly; foxbody wheels. Don't look at LMR or American Muscle under the 79-93 section. S197 wheels are an option but they all tend to be 18 inches or larger.

I have 17x7.5 crown vic steelies on my car. They have a +54mm offset.
I ran a half inch spacer in the front so the would clear the coil overs. They fit great, and looked cool. But were narrow and I wanted more rubber under the car. I couldn't bring myself to drop the coin on a set of custom CCW's, so I was planning on buying another set of steelies and taking the two sets and making one set of 17x9's, and moving the center to get the required offset front and rear. I know people with the tools and skills to handle that, and I feel with their guidance I could handle the project, but not having the tools at home doing it would mean interjecting myself into a buddy's life. I decided I didn't want to do that unless I couldn't find an off the shelf option.

I had a foot injury that kept me camped out on the couch, so I began reading up on every IRS swap thread I could find and figuring out what was the biggest wheel and tire combo to fit and what the wheel specs were. I saw in one thread Jack mentioning that S197 wheels were a solid option. I saw AM sells Saleen SPeedsters in s197 fitment, but in 18's.

I want 17's. So I dissected what those wheels were, what the wheels I had were, ad what I wanted. I read up on terminology (backspacing vs offset.) I figured out I wanted a 17x9 with a lot of offset. Most foxbody wheels are +25ish mm offset. That's not enough with the IRS to put the tire IN the wheelwell. S197 wheels are +45mm, my wheels were +54 and well tucked in; so I needed +45 or MORE offset. Too much offset and I can just use a spacer to put the wheel where I want it. I began looking for 17x9 or 17x8.5, 5 on 4 1/2 inch (114.3mm) bolt pattern and +45mm or more offset.


There are a lot of options out there. Honda S2000 takes the above fitment, just narrower. Enkei, BBS, TSW and other make wheels that fit. You gotta pick what you like, what you can afford, and what fits. Unfortunately you can't just order up $175 Chinese 93 Cobra replicas from LMR and put them on an IRS car. You gotta think outside the box.

I picked 17x9, 5 on 114.3, +45mm offset Enkei RPF1's wrapped in 275/40/17 Nitto NT05's. I'm fully expecting to put spacers on the front, and maybe on the back. I'm fine with that, I will buy or make spacers as needed. I have a BFH for the rear inners as needed, I also have a fender roller to roll the fender edges. I'm expecting to have to add some bracing to the front fenders to move them where they will be out of the way of the tires.

New front springs and rear shocks and coil overs will be here next week, and tires will be mounted so I can start putting everything together.


TL;DR: IRS wheel options are out there, just look for an offset of +45 or more and use a spacer as needed if you have too much offset.

1993 Mustang LX Coupe H/C/I 306/T5/IRS
1997 Lincoln Mark VIII
Stew_Magoo is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 02-10-2018, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 2,333
^^^^^ great info. I have thought about an IRS swap. But it is not budget friendly to me right now. Maybe in a couple years.

tjm73 is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 02-10-2018, 04:14 PM
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: maryland
Posts: 303
I have been running an IRS in my '90 GT for the past 4 years or so. It is a dedicated track car.

First. Wheel fitment is not a problem. I used the following wheels with no issues and I ran a square set up.
98 cobra
99 Cobra
01 GT
2 different after market 17x9 wheels that I ordered for a 99 Cobra.

I could only run a max of 255 on 17x8 until I did some custom flares then I went with aftermarket 17x9 with 275s

Second. If you're going to be track dedicated it is not worth the work or added weight to put the 99-04 IRS into your fox. The car will had different track handling characteristics but it won't be any faster than a well driven straight axle car.

Third. I have a good friend that may end up posting on this thread that is one of the fastest drivers I have seen, and I have seen a lot, for the fox chassis. He runs a 96 or 98 GT and uses the 4 link with PHB. He tried the PM3 link and went back to running stock upper arms, and pan hard bar, and aftermarket lower arms (not sure which ones).

Bottom line is that the chassis on the 79-04 cars was not originally designed to be world class handling cars. You have to find the way your car likes to be driven and exploit it. If you can learn to drive your fox body fast you'll be able to drive any car fast.

'03 Cobra-529rwhp, '95R #201, '90 GT w/ IRS, 2015 Focus ST, 2012 GT track car
wheelhopper is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 02-12-2018, 02:27 PM
Registered User
 
TomV's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: N. Ridgeville, OH
Posts: 453
I sorta wish EVOLUTION MOTORSPORTS (EVM) TRI-LINK was still being manufactured.

1989 Mustang GT
TomV is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 02-13-2018, 08:18 AM
Registered User
 
qtrracer's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (34)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomV View Post
I sorta wish EVOLUTION MOTORSPORTS (EVM) TRI-LINK was still being manufactured.
I was about to order that system when they shut the doors. So I went with the PM3L. After getting such great performance, I purchased the chassis center mount from an '06 Mustang, planned on using a revised version of the EVM axle mount and an aftermarket arm for the 05 up cars. The 86 didn't have enough clearance or floor strength for the chassis mount, so I put that on hold while I played with the PM3L. Ultimately went T/A. But a better fab master than myself could make the 05+ system work.
TomV likes this.
qtrracer is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 02-13-2018, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Trader Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Rush, NY
Posts: 2,333
I sketched up a bolt in center mount and axle mount. Wish I had a welder to fab it.
tjm73 is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 03-02-2018, 11:13 AM
Registered User
 
MB88LX sleeper's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: North Ridgeville OH
Posts: 45
Garage
Just put the panhard bar on it, leave the rubber in uppers, made big difference in mine.

88LX GT40p heads,Explorer intake, E cam, camber caster plates, lowered, frame stiffeners, pan hard bar
2000 Camaro SS Stock
1990 Spec Miata
2003 Stratus winter POS https://youtu.be/ldrDFD59NQU
MB88LX sleeper is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 03-02-2018, 12:48 PM
Registered User
 
TomV's Avatar
 
Trader Feedback: (10)
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: N. Ridgeville, OH
Posts: 453
Nice! I'll be installing my MM panhard bar in the spring. Looking forward to see how it performs afterwards.

1989 Mustang GT
TomV is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rear suspension tilted budman5.0 General Mustang Tech 14 09-07-2015 09:47 AM
Rear suspension upgrade on 2001 GT with upgrades JDubb23 General Mustang Tech 6 08-18-2015 07:05 AM
STOCK 302/TEAM Z REAR SUSPENSION ? Good Copenhagen Drag Racing 3 05-07-2014 10:09 AM
For Sale Feeler/wts 1964 1/2 to 1973 TCI front and rear suspension Silverstang04 Suspension 13 06-17-2013 08:20 PM
For Sale Steeda suspension, 8.8 rear end, cold air intake, Fox brakes MeanMussy Drivetrain Parts 3 02-25-2012 08:21 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome