What road race shocks/struts to use? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 21 Old 01-18-2018, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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What road race shocks/struts for a track-only car?

Hey guys, I am finishing building my 2000 track only mustang with an IRS swap. I have been looking into going with the Maximum Motorsports MM3 dampers w/ coilovers, but I want to see what people have to say about them or if there's something better for a similar price.

Any input is appreciated!

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post #2 of 21 Old 01-18-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune1324 View Post
Hey guys, I am finishing building my 2000 track only mustang with an IRS swap. I have been looking into going with the Maximum Motorsports MM3 dampers w/ coilovers, but I want to see what people have to say about them or if there's something better for a similar price.

Any input is appreciated!
Are the MM3 dampers what Maximum Motorsports recommended? If not, I would call them, give them your info, and go with what they tell you. That's what I did and the result was exactly what I was looking for (street car).

They have a comprehensive list of questions that's required to be completed before they can recommend anything.


-Matt

Kenne Bell Flowzilla supercharged & IRS swapped 90' LX 5.0
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-18-2018, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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They haven't recommended anything yet, I'm basing my decision off of their support docs. I contacted MM this afternoon and am waiting on a response. I hope my questions aren't something they'll want to charge for..haha

What setup did you end up going with?
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-18-2018, 09:56 PM
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Dampers are selected to match the spring rates, vehicle mass and mass distribution. Those items need to be known first.

Jack Hidley
Maximum Motorsports Tech Support
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-19-2018, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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Dampers are selected to match the spring rates, vehicle mass and mass distribution. Those items need to be known first.
The car, with me in it, is expected to weigh between 2550-2850. I'll have more details when I get the car put back together.
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-19-2018, 09:25 PM
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We are expected to be 2700-2800# on a 285/35 RS4 and MM recommended 425#F/325#R coilover spring rates and MM2 damping. We won't have the car done until March, so can't give any input on performance yet.
S.

'17 Viper ACR-E, blue...'16 Charger Hellcat, billet, brass monkeys...'14 Porsche 911 Turbo, blue...'03 Cobra, 5.0, big Whipple...'90 'notch, 363" with turbo...'95 SVT Cobra, road racer...
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-23-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
We are expected to be 2700-2800# on a 285/35 RS4 and MM recommended 425#F/325#R coilover spring rates and MM2 damping. We won't have the car done until March, so can't give any input on performance yet.
S.
The spring rates will very likely be very different for @kitsune1324 since he's got an IRS compared to your SRA in the Cobra.

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post #8 of 21 Old 01-25-2018, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if there is something better than MM for the price. I am the type of guy who doesn't mind spending a little extra to get the best, but I'm not made of money and I would really like to get some more track time.
If I do choose to go with MM I'll pay the $50 for their support to make sure I get the right thing, but until then I'm keeping my options open.
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-26-2018, 12:07 PM
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I've been very happy with the performance and the matching of spring rates and MM's race shocks/struts but I just wish I could have some adjustability. One track I race on has developed more bumps on several corners and I have no ability to soften the shocks/struts. But that's my only complaint
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-28-2018, 01:24 PM
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The Bils, either the HDs or MM modified, are hard to beat for the price. I don't recommend the S/A Konis over the Bils. I've run the Bils on my 86 for years with a moderate spring rate. But when I purchased my '16 GT pp, Bils had not been released. I gave up waiting and went with D/A KWs.

The KWs are great street/track/A/X struts/shocks. Both compression and rebound adjustable with 12 -16 clicks. And each adjustment is noticeable (unlike the SA Konis I have). But they are nearly $3K for a set with springs. IMO worth it. I will caution that adjustable shocks require a learning curve on suspension design, and what you need the car to do at entry, mid-corner, and exit. Otherwise having the adjustability will not be used optimally. That is why the non-adjustable Bils are so great. They have very good rebound and compression curves and can be run with the appropriate spring rate without going through the so-called "black magic" of shock tuning.

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post #11 of 21 Old 01-30-2018, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the responses, guys. In the front I currently have strange struts w/ a UPR coilover kit (noisy as hell!), the adjustability is cool but I definitely need to learn how to tune them correctly.
I know that the mm3 and mm2 shocks/struts are made to be used with coilovers, but right now shocks are what I need in order to get the car moving. Do you think there would be a problem to use the shocks without coilovers for a few events or should I dive in and spend the $800 on shocks/coilovers?

I looked into the KW's and they're way out of my budget, it does look like a good option though.


@az97cobra, I live in Chandler, what track are you talking about? I've only driven at the Wild Horse Pass track.
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-30-2018, 03:55 PM
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I'm referring to the newly repaved WHP East track. I knocked nearly 1.5s off my track time after the resurface but the high speed left hander after the big loop/carousel is now just brutal on me and my car. My car tries to rip the steering wheel out of my hands but strangely others don't complain. I probably have just too firm a spring/shock combination for a 2800 lb car. I
I've almost certainly seen your car out there but maybe you can tell me what color it is and if you're kind of a regular
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-30-2018, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Due to lack of funds and building my car I've only been out a couple of times. My car was the red 2000, I ran with ProAutosports but will be starting with NASA once I get the car back on its feet.
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-31-2018, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitsune1324 View Post
I know that the mm3 and mm2 shocks/struts are made to be used with coilovers, but right now shocks are what I need in order to get the car moving. Do you think there would be a problem to use the shocks without coilovers for a few events or should I dive in and spend the $800 on shocks/coilovers?
The MM site recommends the H&R Super Race conventionals for the MM2, but conventionals NOT recommended for MM3. I ran the H&R Super Race rear springs on my PM3L converted rear suspension with just the Bil HDs. This was not optimal but it worked. Later I ran MM's H&R T/A springs when I went T/A - also with the HD Bils. Not good as the spring overpowered the shock. Look on MM's Tech page (Matching spring rates with dampers) for recommended rates and matching dampers.
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-31-2018, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by qtrracer View Post
The MM site recommends the H&R Super Race conventionals for the MM2, but conventionals NOT recommended for MM3. I ran the H&R Super Race rear springs on my PM3L converted rear suspension with just the Bil HDs. This was not optimal but it worked. Later I ran MM's H&R T/A springs when I went T/A - also with the HD Bils. Not good as the spring overpowered the shock. Look on MM's Tech page (Matching spring rates with dampers) for recommended rates and matching dampers.
Thanks for pointing that out!

So the springs I was given with the IRS won't work..and buying new springs and the MM shocks gets close to the price of the mm3 + coilover system (rear only). At that point I guess I'd just try and figure out if I should go with the MM2 or MM3 package. The car won't be street driven at all, but I want to always have the best traction..I know the MM2's will be better on rough tracks but I'm pretty sure almost all the tracks I'll be running on are pretty smooth.
If anyone has input on that I'd really appreciate it.
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-02-2018, 06:57 AM
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Those rates are generally for stick axle equipped cars. For an IRS, you need more spring due to less bind in the system. Therefore, consider rates recommended for T/A equipped cars or ask MM for a recommendation. I currently run a 225# C/O spring on my T/A equipped 86 (325# up front). On my 01 Cobra, I ran H&R Super Sport conventionals with '00 Cobra Bils. That was a great set-up but the car was arguably too low for street use (speed bumps, debris in the road, road-kill, road repairs - k-member hit them all unless I was paying attention).
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-04-2018, 02:27 PM
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I have a fox body with an IRS in it. I am running the MM3's with 425 front and 575 rear and weigh about 3250 with me in it.

I have played with various rates and I am happy with the rears and if I get around to it switch to 450s for the front.

Based on the weight that you propose, not sure how you're going to get it that light. I would start with MM2 with 400 front and 550 rear.

Definitely prefer non adjustable struts/shocks

'03 Cobra-529rwhp, '95R #201, '90 GT w/ IRS, 2015 Focus ST, 2012 GT track car
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-05-2018, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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qtrracer, will do. At this point I'm just trying to determine overall if I should get the stiffer mm3 package or the softer mm2 package.

wheelhopper, all in all, I will now most likely end up around 28XX, it's a supercharged, fully stripped, v6.
How does your car currently handle with the mm3's?
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post #19 of 21 Old 04-06-2018, 03:47 PM
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qtrracer,
I think you might have answered my question. I have been looking for info on torque arm rear spring rates. What shocks do you use with your coil overs? I'm looking at Koni double adjustable rear shocks with or without coil overs. Would like to use stock location springs for tire clearance and I also have heavy duty adjustable rear M&M lower control arms. How do you like the current set up on your 86? Street ability, handling on track. Thanks.
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post #20 of 21 Old 04-07-2018, 12:33 PM
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qtrracer,
I think you might have answered my question. I have been looking for info on torque arm rear spring rates. What shocks do you use with your coil overs?
Bilstein MM1 (old design). According to Jack Hidley, the old MM1 valving is just a bit stiffer than their current Sport, but less than their current RA2.

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Originally Posted by DSSR View Post
I'm looking at Koni double adjustable rear shocks with or without coil overs. Would like to use stock location springs for tire clearance and I also have heavy duty adjustable rear M&M lower control arms. How do you like the current set up on your 86? Street ability, handling on track. Thanks.
I haven't had the car out with the rear C/O set-up since installation. But based upon the wheel rate the car should ride pretty similar to the conventional H&R T/A springs but with more control than the HDs provided. If you go Koni, I'd not waste resources on the SAs. I found them nearly useless with only rebound adjustability. Not sure about the D/As. But I have KW v3s on my 2016 GT and love those. This experience is the reason I'm going to KW, JRI or some other D/A shock/strut on the 86 when money permits.
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post #21 of 21 Old 04-08-2018, 04:56 PM
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Thanks!
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