2003 GT Brake Pads For Open Track - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-31-2017, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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2003 GT Brake Pads For Open Track

2003 Mustang GT

Setting up for open track. Stock Calipers front and rear. Rotors are vented (not drilled) and slotted and are stock diameter. Have not decided on tires yet but leaning toward Nitto NT01 or Continental Extreme Contact. Car will be driven to and from track only, not a daily driver.

I have read through some of the threads here and see that Raybestos ST47 is getting a lot of good feedback but the price is really up there. I am seeing mixed reviews on Hawk HP+. Carbotech seems to get good feedback.

Based on my essentially stock setup, what would be a good front / rear selection?

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post #2 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverGT1 View Post
2003 Mustang GT

Setting up for open track. Stock Calipers front and rear. Rotors are vented (not drilled) and slotted and are stock diameter. Have not decided on tires yet but leaning toward Nitto NT01 or Continental Extreme Contact. Car will be driven to and from track only, not a daily driver.

I have read through some of the threads here and see that Raybestos ST47 is getting a lot of good feedback but the price is really up there. I am seeing mixed reviews on Hawk HP+. Carbotech seems to get good feedback.

Based on my essentially stock setup, what would be a good front / rear selection?
New to open track / HPDE? Stock set up? Powerstop Track Day pads. Save the ST47s for when you upgrade to a big brake kit. More importantly, flush the brake fluid with fresh DOT4 fluid. Motul is highly recommended. I use ATE personally - never had it boil but I do flush it before every track event.


1999 GT Dark Green Satin
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, new to open track / HPDE.

Thanks for the recommendation on Powerstop. I haven't seen them discussed on the forums. I'll check them out.

I have ordered 6 500ml bottles of Motul. Hopefully that will be enough to do a full flush. I already have Russell brake lines and cooling ducts.
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 08:23 AM
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In Hawk, you should definitely be looking a bit higher up the compound ladder than HP+, at least DTC-30 to start with. Per Hawk's own temperature curves, HP+ grip coefficient is about to fall off a cliff at just over 900įF. It's really more of an autocross or maybe dragstrip pad.

There's a similar discussion going on elsewhere, where HT10's have been suggested by someone with both racer and instructor credentials as being appropriate for a newbie track day driver in the somewhat heavier S197 Mustang.

I've had good results with Carbotech's XP series up through XP12. XP10 is rated to something like 1500į, and the XP8's to 1250į. Either one can be street-driven if you can tolerate some dust and a little noise. Cold bite is still pretty good, unlike with more serious race pads that may need to be at 400į or more before much slowing happens.


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post #5 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 10:30 AM
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Hmm. I think ST47's are CHEAP by comparison. Even if they cost the same as, say, Carbotechs, if you put it on a per-mile-of-life basis, the ST47's win by landslide.
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you, Norm. I will look at closer at the Carbotech XP series.

FWIW, I looked at the Power Stop Track Day pads that Macuser27 suggested. These look very interesting but it does not appear that they are offered for the GT. I can only find them for the Cobra and Mach 1.

I am spending so much right now trying to get on the track that upgrading to the larger brake calipers and rotors wasn't on the to do list.
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFE View Post
Hmm. I think ST47's are CHEAP by comparison. Even if they cost the same as, say, Carbotechs, if you put it on a per-mile-of-life basis, the ST47's win by landslide.
The only reason I didn't mention Raybestos pads is because I have zero experience with any of the ST pad lineup. Or any data for them handy.


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Mine: '08 GT, 5MT, black/light graphite, un-Fstock (DD, occasional track day)
Wife's: '10 Legacy 2.5GT (DD, six-speed manual)
Spare:'01 20AE Maxima, 5MT (also my bad weather alternate)
Various Loose Parts: '79 Malibu
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Hmm. I think ST47's are CHEAP by comparison. Even if they cost the same as, say, Carbotechs, if you put it on a per-mile-of-life basis, the ST47's win by landslide.
Are these considered "track only" or can they be driven to and from the track? Would you recommend running ST47 front and rear? I have been looking at the Raybestos literature and it seems that they are sort of saying that the ST45 is recommended for the rear. If I remember correctly, about $230 for front and about $165 for the rear.

However, the Carbotech XP10 (front) / XP8 (rear) set up is almost exactly the same price.

I must admit, I was a little surprised at the price of all of these pads.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 03:29 PM
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In my experience, any track pad can be driven on the street. The primary trade-offs are dust, noise, and rotor life, but if you're just driving to/from the track, those trade-offs shouldn't be an issue.

I do track events in my daily driver(s), so my routine has always been to drive to the locale the night before, swap over to track pads and wheels/tires in the hotel parking lot, then drive to/from the track on the track brakes/wheels/tires for the next couple days. Usually that's from a hotel that's only 15-20min from the track. I've used that same routine with Raybestos ST43s and ST47s, Porterfield R4s, Hawk DTC70s and DTC60s, Carbotech XP10s/12s/16s/20s and Carbonne-Loraine RC6s. This weekend I'll be doing it with the Powerstop Track Day pads - my first time running those. After the event I normally swap back to street equipment before making the drive home. However, on a number of occasions I've driven home on the track pads - up to 4 hours or so. And on occasion I've continued to be lazy and daily drove on the track pads for a few more days after that. No issues.

Contrary to what seems to be the conventional wisdom, I have never found track pads to be lacking in cold bite. Quite the opposite, in fact. I have always found that track pads have noticeably stronger bite than my performance street pads. That includes driving to the track at the crack of dawn for November events when it was ~30F.

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post #10 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Contrary to what seems to be the conventional wisdom, I have never found track pads to be lacking in cold bite. Quite the opposite, in fact. I have always found that track pads have noticeably stronger bite than my performance street pads. That includes driving to the track at the crack of dawn for November events when it was ~30F.
The problem is, usually that cold bite is from abrasive friction and it's hell on rotors, as compared to ablative friction from the transfer layer when things are hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGT1 View Post
Are these considered "track only" or can they be driven to and from the track? Would you recommend running ST47 front and rear? I have been looking at the Raybestos literature and it seems that they are sort of saying that the ST45 is recommended for the rear. If I remember correctly, about $230 for front and about $165 for the rear.

However, the Carbotech XP10 (front) / XP8 (rear) set up is almost exactly the same price.

I must admit, I was a little surprised at the price of all of these pads.

As for ST47's on the street, I've driven mine to track events 200 miles away with no problem except lots of dust. If it's going to be a couple weeks between track days and I expect to drive the car on the street, I will swap them back out for street oriented pads.

I would run something less aggressive on the rear, but that's just me.

$230 sounds excessive. I think I paid under $180 for my last set from Randall Race Parts.


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post #11 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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I would run something less aggressive on the rear, but that's just me. $230 sounds excessive. I think I paid under $180 for my last set from Randall Race Parts.
MFE, do you mean less aggressive than the ST45 on the rear?

I have been to the Randall website and I cant find the RC804 ST47 or the RC627.17 ST45. Am I missing something?
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-01-2017, 11:20 PM
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MFE, do you mean less aggressive than the ST45 on the rear?

I have been to the Randall website and I cant find the RC804 ST47 or the RC627.17 ST45. Am I missing something?
Just call them.

I mean something less aggressive than the 47's on the rear, but again, that's just me. I'm a little cautious about too much rear bias with a torque arm that can be prone to hopping.
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-02-2017, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MFE View Post
The problem is, usually that cold bite is from abrasive friction and it's hell on rotors, as compared to ablative friction from the transfer layer when things are hot.
You've just described HP+ pads.

In my fairly limited experience, HP+ pads are far more abrasive in street duty than either Carbotech XP8's or XP10's and still somewhat more abrasive than XP12's. For that, you get a pad with nowhere near the temperature capability.


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post #14 of 17 Old 08-02-2017, 01:20 PM
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I run the ST47's on the front of my CMC car... they truly are amazing pads... I ordered mine from Randall Race Parts as well and don't recall them being as expensive as other "race" pads...

I ran ST43's on the rear... but it felt like in every turn the outside brake was dragging and there was a load groaning noise coming from the rear... not the fault of the pad just bad axle flex... I rebuilt the traction lock and shimmed the axles and still could not get rid of the noise or feeling... I ended up swapping the rear pads to a set of Autozone "house" pads... the noise went away completely...

I can't comment on the ST series pads on the street... but when doing warm up laps with cold brakes they are LOUD!!! once they get some heat in them they are fine...

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post #15 of 17 Old 08-02-2017, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, I called Randall Race Parts today. Apparently, Raybestos does not make a ST47 for the stock caliper / rotor. Other sources like Porterfield and LPI offer a version that has a P/N that begins with "RC". According to Randall, this indicates a "cut" part and is not a product supplied directly by Raybestos.

Here is some good feedback from Jake:
The front OEM pads for your Mustang are not made by Brake Parts Inc. (Raybestos) in the ST series. The racing compounds have different backing plates. They never designed one for that car most likely because of demand. (As far as front Mustang pads go, youíre maybe the 2nd in almost 8 years that Iíve had ask for the OEM shape, Most people have HP front calipers if they are tracking the car)

The RC part number you have seen online is most likely from Porterfield or from someone who purchases from them. They will cut out your OEM shape using a larger ďdonorĒ pad in the compound you choose. They cost a little more and are custom made to order. Unfortunately, we do not have the facilities to cut our own pads. That is why you will see the part number sold online, but it is a custom pad.

Lastly, we do have the rear shape. Thatís a very popular shape as itís used from 94 through 2004. BPI does make that shape and we keep it on the shelf. Iíve had customers that have purchased the cut version from Porterfield and itís given them issues with binding up in the caliper when the rear suspension loads up in the corner. Iím not sure why they cut that pad out when it is a stamped backing plate from Raybestos.
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post #16 of 17 Old 08-08-2017, 03:48 PM
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Hmm. I think ST47's are CHEAP by comparison. Even if they cost the same as, say, Carbotechs, if you put it on a per-mile-of-life basis, the ST47's win by landslide.
Amen!

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post #17 of 17 Old 08-15-2017, 09:35 PM
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My first HPDE with my 1999 Mustang GT on stock brakes and Kumho Victoracers would see the brakes fading and the tires getting greasy in 10 minutes or less.

The first thing I did after that event was to order the PBR Cobra upgrade front and rear and search for some pads that might work without breaking the bank. I found some performance Kevlar metallic street pads made by Lomandi. They were $75 front and rear shipped at the time.

When I installed the cobra brakes I removed the backing plates (spash guards). I gutted the fog lights and connected some 2-1/2Ē shop vac hose and tie wrapped it to the strut aimed at the center of the rotor.

My second and subsequent track days with the Lomadi pads, makeshift cooling ducts, and Kumho V710 tires saw NO brake fade and No greasy tire syndrome. Switching to Hoosier A6 after the 710 demise was the return of greasy tire syndrome but still no brake fade. I put 6 track days and a years worth of autocross on my first set. My next modification was a seat with side bolsters to keep me planted.

I donít see Lomadi advertising on that auction site any more but you can contact them to see if they have fitment and they will create a sale for you. Use the [email protected] email for that if you are interested.

When I built my late model stockcar for track days it had the GM type calipers that used the D52 pads. I put the Lomandi Kevlarmetallic pads on all 4 wheels and rigged the cooling ducts as I have them on my Mustang. I used some Hoosier entry level paved oval tires on it and was surprised with no greasy tire syndrome or brake fade. they sold me two sets for $60 shipped in 2015.

Disclaimer: The pads will wear prematurely if you do not use cooling ducts on the fronts (ask me how I know). They may not work as well for you if you drive more aggressively than I did or have lots more horsepower. BUT I think they are a great value and have worked well for me. I am not affiliated with this company in any way.

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