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post #1 of 30 Old 08-29-2016, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Couple questions

1 Is there a check list on what to check on your car before and after racing?

2. Are any of you running catch cans or vacuum pumps...if so, what type and pictures please. I have my PCV blocked in the back of the Holley Systemax intake and in the front of the upper. There are breathers in both valve covers, yet oil has dripped out and onto my headers the last two times at the track. I want to get rid of this problem and think the catch can is the way. Thoughts?

3. I was hearing a drone type sound when I turned left or right at the track the other day. I thought it may have been the power steering fluid so I changed it out. I have not heard it, but I have not been on the car hard in a turn either since. I checked for the tire rubbing but didn't see any indication of either side rubbing anywhere. Ideas on what it might be and what I should check next?

4. How often are you checking things like wheel bearings, grease fittings, other items that can wear from the racing and heat? What is a good grease to use for wheel bearings for a track/street car?

5. I was flushing my brake fluid and someone told me there is a "speed valve" you can buy for bleeding brakes that makes it easy. Never heard of it but thought I would ask if anyone is using this and what type are you using. Comments?

I have two more events...maybe three, before I put the car up for the year and want to make sure it is working as it should. Want to get in a good habit of checking the things that can fail so it doesn't happen on track.

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post #2 of 30 Old 08-29-2016, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
. I was hearing a drone type sound when I turned left or right at the track the other day. I thought it may have been the power steering fluid so I changed it out. I have not heard it, but I have not been on the car hard in a turn either since. I checked for the tire rubbing but didn't see any indication of either side rubbing anywhere. Ideas on what it might be and what I should check next?
Do you have rear cobra brakes? If you don't have the anti-moan brackets you may get a kind of moan/drone sound.

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5. I was flushing my brake fluid and someone told me there is a "speed valve" you can buy for bleeding brakes that makes it easy. Never heard of it but thought I would ask if anyone is using this and what type are you using. Comments?
Russell Speed Bleeders...I use to use them but have switched to standard bleeder screws and using a Motive pressure bleeder. With the motive you fill the jug with your brake fluid of choice, attached to brake reservoir, pump up to about 15 psi and move around to each caliper opening the bleeders until you see fresh fluid and no air bubbles. There is no need to pump the pedal and is definately a one man job.

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post #3 of 30 Old 08-29-2016, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the reply JW. I have Baer front/rear brakes and just put on some new Raybestos ST47's all around. Never heard of a anti-moan brackets and thought you were messing with me until I Googled it and found it....lol. It happens when I turn, not when going straight. Does that sound like what it is?

I will google that Motive pressure bleeder. That definitely sounds like the way to go. Thanks.
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post #4 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 09:40 AM
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A power steering cooler would be a wise investment if you do not already have one. You would not be the first person to melt the reservoir off the pump.

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post #5 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 09:59 AM
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As for oil dripping on the headers, it's could be the valve covers filling up with oil with sustained higher RPM. That's what happened to me at least. Run each to a catch can VC, with large lines running up-hill.
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post #6 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Old School EFI View Post
A power steering cooler would be a wise investment if you do not already have one. You would not be the first person to melt the reservoir off the pump.
You think that was the reason for that drone sound or the brakes? Also, which one did you use or recommend?

EDIT: Just bought a new 95 Cobra R that PPI had. Will be here by weekend. Still not sure that was the issue though. But happy to have that base covered.
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post #7 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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As for oil dripping on the headers, it's could be the valve covers filling up with oil with sustained higher RPM. That's what happened to me at least. Run each to a catch can VC, with large lines running up-hill.
Ross, are you saying like a -12 hose from each valve cover to a catch can mounted on the wall by the MAF meter would work, or something different?

Also, is anyone having any blow by issues? My dipstick will come out under load and I have spring mounted it to the closed position to keep it in the tube but that is not helping the cause of why it is coming out. I have a Holley Systemax intake on a 347 Dart block. I have the PCV closed on the back of the lower intake and the front of the upper intake and two breather caps on the top of both valve covers. The car came this way and the previous owner said it worked for him. The idle surges and car occasionally dies when at a stop. I had a chip burned for it and it worked for a while but is no longer working very well. I am thinking of trying this setup without the breathers. Any ideas?

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post #8 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 12:19 PM
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You think that was the reason for that drone sound or the brakes? Also, which one did you use or recommend?
It was not me, and I don't want to recommend one and steer you wrong. I just remember seeing someone on here that melted one a while back when they were just beginning to track their car and having teething issues. I think it was EscortSportage who did it and posted the pics.

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post #9 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 01:57 PM
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Ross, are you saying like a -12 hose from each valve cover to a catch can mounted on the wall by the MAF meter would work, or something different?
Sounds good to me! To possibly help your idle you'll want to draw this air back in to the engine to be burned, though (like a PCV setup). Basically your MAF has accounted for the air in the crankcase but you're letting it out into the open air. Through a traditional PCV system this air gets drawn back in the intake and burned.

I'd do it like this: One the drivers side VC run a -12 hose (uphill) to a vented catch can, this will be your fresh air source. On the passenger side a -12 hose to a baffled and sealed catch can; then from the catch can to your normal PCV vacuum port. If that still doesn't take care of the blow-by, then this catch can may need to be baffled as well.
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post #10 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 03:40 PM
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A power steering cooler would be a wise investment if you do not already have one. You would not be the first person to melt the reservoir off the pump.
I was going to say, A PS cooler is not only wise but required! Even when I install a small PS cooler, the pump wasnt to happy, I since then stepped up to a larger cooler.


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post #11 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Old School EFI View Post
It was not me, and I don't want to recommend one and steer you wrong. I just remember seeing someone on here that melted one a while back when they were just beginning to track their car and having teething issues. I think it was EscortSportage who did it and posted the pics.
Ok, well I bought a 95 Cobra R cooler. I will throw that on and see how it does. Thanks.
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post #12 of 30 Old 08-30-2016, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ross2004 View Post
Sounds good to me! To possibly help your idle you'll want to draw this air back in to the engine to be burned, though (like a PCV setup). Basically your MAF has accounted for the air in the crankcase but you're letting it out into the open air. Through a traditional PCV system this air gets drawn back in the intake and burned.

I'd do it like this: One the drivers side VC run a -12 hose (uphill) to a vented catch can, this will be your fresh air source. On the passenger side a -12 hose to a baffled and sealed catch can; then from the catch can to your normal PCV vacuum port. If that still doesn't take care of the blow-by, then this catch can may need to be baffled as well.
Dang, ok. I was thinking you were saying to take both breathers off the valve covers so they are both closed, run a -12 from both valve covers to a vented, baffled catch can and keeping the PCV closed off. I spoke to the previous owner about the diagram I posted in the previous thread, he tried it just like that, but it didn't work. It is now setup the same way with the exception being both the upper and lower PCV locations are blocked off. So you are saying to run two catch cans, one baffled and one not, drivers side to the breather can and the passenger side to the baffled closed can and off to the upper or lower PCV location? The Holley uses the lower and upper ports for PCV. The PCV itself is still in the lower but the line goes out to the upper.

Also, just wandering a bit but what about a Vacuum Pump? Wouldn't that take care of it and give me more power to boot? I talked with GZ this morning and the guy said his 102 is being used on a Z06 Vette and has been on it for over 30,000 miles without any issues. Just a thought. Would like to get feedback on that. Thanks.
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post #13 of 30 Old 08-31-2016, 11:10 AM
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Watching your video, that's definitely brake moan, and the way it comes through the mount into the camera tells me it's coming from the rear.

It might just be nothing, but it might be that one or both of the brackets needs shimming to make sure they're centered over the rotor, and it's worth checking the axle end-play when you have some spare time. As the clutch packs wear, end-play increases. Don't forget to remove the caliper when you take the measurements.

You want it as low into the single-digit thousandths as possible, but I don't get concerned about it until it's over .015, in which case I'll think about re-shimming the clutches in the off season
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post #14 of 30 Old 08-31-2016, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks a ton, MFE. I was wondering about that. What rear brakes should I swap to? I have the ST 47's all around and do not want that noise. I will sacrifice so I can hear something else if it goes wrong. I have a Eaton I am going to put in with some 33 spline Mosers I originally bought for drag racing. They have been sitting for a couple years so I will just swap those in. Thank you very much for the reply. It was really bugging me on what that was.
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post #15 of 30 Old 08-31-2016, 02:00 PM
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I just run Hawk HPS on the back of mine, which probably isn't right, but it keeps me from having to swap them back and forth from street to track. But before you change out pads, check the clearances and endplay.
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post #16 of 30 Old 08-31-2016, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Will do, thanks.
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post #17 of 30 Old 08-31-2016, 11:38 PM
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I went through the same ordeal with the rear brakes... when I ran the ST43's on the rear with Cobra brakes it made a terrible noise when I went through any turn. I rebuilt my diff and shimmed the axles so I had zero end play. I made sure the caliper brackets were centered over rotors... no joy. It still made the same noise the next time out... as a matter of fact I believe it was even worse. While at the track I swapped to another set of rotors and some "house" brand ceramic rear pads and the noise went away.

I did a great deal of research on the issue... one conclusion that seemed plausible is the rear axle flange is flexing causing the rotor to make contact with the bracket and/or causing the pad to drag on the rotor. As you are aware, the Raybestos pads are VERY noisy when cold... the rear brakes are not generating the same heat as the front. As a result you are getting a cool pad against a cool rotor in a situation that mimics light braking...

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post #18 of 30 Old 09-01-2016, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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That makes sense and now that two in the know have said the same thing, I am sure it is the pads. I will check end play anyways but will buy some cheap ceramic pads and keep the front as is and see how it goes. The only thing I have changed since the noise has started is the pads so I am certain now, that is what it is. Thank you for the reply ChristophrC.
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post #19 of 30 Old 09-01-2016, 11:41 AM
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If the ST47's are making noise it's because they're not hot enough. The tech people at Raybestos are extremely helpful, they'll point you in the right direction. I've got the 43s on the front and 45s on the rear of my BMW and they're absolutely silent, even stone cold. On our ChumpCar Camaro we have 47s on the front and some EBC pad on the rear, and the fronts only make noise until they come up to temp.
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post #20 of 30 Old 09-01-2016, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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It appears the rear brakes are the ones making the noise, Ross. I am going to swap out the 47's on the rear with some ceramic pads and see what that does. Thanks.
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post #21 of 30 Old 09-01-2016, 11:25 PM
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when you are in there checking end play make sure you check to see if the brackets are making contact with the rotor as MFE suggested...

I believe converting to 9" ends would help the problem... I recall that some of the A-Sedan guys that were running 8.8's cured the problem by installing 9" ends... this would also get rid of all end play since there are no more c-clips. T500hp had some custom axles made that were larger diameter like a 35 spline, IIRC, but were machined down to 28 spline on the ends so they would fit his diff... I don't believe that helped the problem... maybe he will chime in...

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post #22 of 30 Old 09-01-2016, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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I would eventually like to convert from the standard Foxbody 8.8 to the new Moser housing and setup. I already have the 33 spline axles and the Eaton differential. Their new housings look stout. Probably a upgrade in the near future. Thanks.
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post #23 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 06:08 PM
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I too have had the same issues with valve cover breathers and oil dipstick.

I had 4 AN-12 grommets welded to my valve covers and ran them all to a custom catch can with 4 AN-12 intake grommets on them. I just did this and havent been out on this new setup yet. Last time I was at Putnam Park it turned into a bad issue and I had to rig up a taller breather in the rear on the fly as it was leaking on to the header. Oil on a hot header equals FIRE. I rigged it up from a local NAPA using a long piece of rubber hose and a few hose clamps. It got me through the weekend... The setup I have now should work perfectly!!!

As for my dipstick blowing out....I took a low tech approach and drilled a hole in the handle, ran a zip tie through it and wrapped it around the clutch cable. LOL It works like a charm now but I have to cut the zip tie off to check the oil. Zip ties are cheap though...

I also run a small power steering cooler I got from Summit for like $30.(Pictured below) It works great and I have never had a power steering issue since using it.
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post #24 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 07:22 PM
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Virtually all track pads will make this moaning sound when used in a Mustang 8.8" housing. The sound is the caliper flexing side to side in a figure eight pattern. Ceramic pads will fix it, but then you will have lost a huge amount of brake torque. Changing to stiffer axles (larger diameter) and/or a stiffer caliper bracket will help. This is what the antimoan brackets are designed to do. You want the axle endplay down in the 0.005"-0.008" range if using a c-clip axle. With a 9" axle, it should be zero.

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post #25 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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I too have had the same issues with valve cover breathers and oil dipstick.

I had 4 AN-12 grommets welded to my valve covers and ran them all to a custom catch can with 4 AN-12 intake grommets on them. I just did this and havent been out on this new setup yet. Last time I was at Putnam Park it turned into a bad issue and I had to rig up a taller breather in the rear on the fly as it was leaking on to the header. Oil on a hot header equals FIRE. I rigged it up from a local NAPA using a long piece of rubber hose and a few hose clamps. It got me through the weekend... The setup I have now should work perfectly!!!

As for my dipstick blowing out....I took a low tech approach and drilled a hole in the handle, ran a zip tie through it and wrapped it around the clutch cable. LOL It works like a charm now but I have to cut the zip tie off to check the oil. Zip ties are cheap though...

I also run a small power steering cooler I got from Summit for like $30.(Pictured below) It works great and I have never had a power steering issue since using it.
Yeah, I keep going back and forth between a catch can and a vacuum pump. I would probably have to ditch my Power Steering to run the Vacuum Pump or fab up some kind of bracket to mount it. The Vacuum pump comes with a bracket to mount to either head. They make power as well, so there is that. Each of my valve covers have -12 grommets welded into them as well, so the catch can would hook right up.

I have a spring setup on my oil dipstick. Go to the hardware and pick up a spring that is the right length (1.2 inch worked for me) and dump the zip tie and use the spring. You can connect and unconnect it easy and use it over and over.
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post #26 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Virtually all track pads will make this moaning sound when used in a Mustang 8.8" housing. The sound is the caliper flexing side to side in a figure eight pattern. Ceramic pads will fix it, but then you will have lost a huge amount of brake torque. Changing to stiffer axles (larger diameter) and/or a stiffer caliper bracket will help. This is what the antimoan brackets are designed to do. You want the axle endplay down in the 0.005"-0.008" range if using a c-clip axle. With a 9" axle, it should be zero.
Thanks Jack. I have plans to upgrade to the new Moser M88 housing and I am sure it will solve it all. For now, I just swapped out to some ceramic pads in the back today and the noise is gone. I checked my end play as well and it was .004 so I know that is good. Thanks.
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post #27 of 30 Old 09-02-2016, 10:52 PM
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Virtually all track pads will make this moaning sound when used in a Mustang 8.8" housing. The sound is the caliper flexing side to side in a figure eight pattern. Ceramic pads will fix it, but then you will have lost a huge amount of brake torque. Changing to stiffer axles (larger diameter) and/or a stiffer caliper bracket will help. This is what the antimoan brackets are designed to do. You want the axle endplay down in the 0.005"-0.008" range if using a c-clip axle. With a 9" axle, it should be zero.
Jack... would reducing the axle offset help the situation? Mine almost sound as if the pad "chatters" on the rotor. The last time at VIR with the ST43's on the rear it sounded like metal-to-metal contact. I was very surprised not to find any witness marks on the rotor and/or bracket.

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post #28 of 30 Old 09-03-2016, 08:00 PM
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ERS,

The M88 housing has 3" OD axle tubes, instead of the standard 8.8" 2.88" axle tubes. This will keep a lot of aftermarket suspension parts from fitting on it. Your PHB will not fit and your TA will probably require some fabrication to fit properly.

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post #29 of 30 Old 09-03-2016, 08:04 PM
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Christorphr,

Running the widest housing with the short axles, will help the situation some. An axle design that has wider bearings, tapered roller bearings or dual spaced bearings are the things that will stop the axle flex.

The noise is caused by the friction material rubbing on the rotor's friction face and the caliper and axle vibrating in response.

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post #30 of 30 Old 09-03-2016, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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ERS,

The M88 housing has 3" OD axle tubes, instead of the standard 8.8" 2.88" axle tubes. This will keep a lot of aftermarket suspension parts from fitting on it. Your PHB will not fit and your TA will probably require some fabrication to fit properly.
Dang, that sucks. Well I will be pulling the stocker and installing the large 9 inch ends and bearings this winter then. Thanks Jack.
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