Striving for 50/50 balance - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 06-29-2016, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Striving for 50/50 balance

How much weight is the rear lighter than the front?

How realistic is it getting a fox to 50/50 weight distribution ?

I will install MM forward offset arms some time this summer, and set the engine 1 inch back, on top of tubular front bumper and gutted fox. Also the Torque arm/panhard bar add weight to the rear and most of the cage is in the back half of the car, im interested to see how far off from 50/50 iam. Any one use scales and dial in their track cars? What are sitting at ?


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post #2 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 11:12 AM
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The only way to know is to get it up on some corner scales

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post #3 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 11:30 AM
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My car weighs 3,200 without me. I am 54% on the front with a 130 lb aluminum 9.5 inch block and fiberglass hood. Engine is set back with a Griggs K member and the AC is still in place. Battery is in the rear. Full interior except for the rear seat delete. A six point roll bar, TQ arm, and subframe connectors add weight to the rear mostly I would think. The T56 is heavy and does not help. Except for the AC and bumper support I am not sure how much more there is to extract from the front without getting silly.

Edit: Smog pump, charcoal canister, wiper fluid reservoir are long gone. The horn and wiper motor still exist.

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post #4 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Ive gutted the stock hood, Tubular front bumper, no horn, no cruise control, no ac/heat/emissions/charcoal canister. Smaller MM swaybar, tubular GT40 intake, aluminum PS/Alt brackets, coilovers, MM k member
Battery is behind passenger seat, stock motor and tranny

Anyone have scales and lives in CT or NY/NJ ?


Id really love to see how close to 50/50 i can get before i need to add weight to the rear.

Aluminum heads to would help a ton! ( i know)

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post #5 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortSportage View Post
Ive gutted the stock hood
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but, I'm looking into doing this on a junk hood I have...do you have any pics and/or a write up of what you did?

Thanks,
Mark
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post #6 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 03:13 PM
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It should not be that hard. My drag car is at 50/50 with a Dart Iron Eagle block, 2.8 LQ Kenne Bell S/C sitting over the engine with a custom air/water I/C as well. With me in the car the weight (per the rules I race under) is 3,150 lbs. This is with an oversize aluminum radiator, S/C coolant pump, hoses/radiator/reservoir as well. Car still has power windows.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #7 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortSportage View Post

Id really love to see how close to 50/50 i can get before i need to add weight to the rear.
Don't add weight just to try and get the balance 50/50, unless of course it's ballast to meet class rules. Weight is always the enemy.
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post #8 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
It should not be that hard. My drag car is at 50/50 with a Dart Iron Eagle block, 2.8 LQ Kenne Bell S/C sitting over the engine with a custom air/water I/C as well. With me in the car the weight (per the rules I race under) is 3,150 lbs. This is with an oversize aluminum radiator, S/C coolant pump, hoses/radiator/reservoir as well. Car still has power windows.
Can you give some details on how you got to 50/50 with all that engine and blower out front? That sounds very impressive.
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post #9 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rickyll7 View Post
Can you give some details on how you got to 50/50 with all that engine and blower out front? That sounds very impressive.
No A/C, No P/S, QA1 tubular K-member, coil overs, lightweight springs, no sway bar, no front bumper inner structure, Battery in right rear, 8 Gallons of water in rear I/C tank, full tank of gas, playing with the ride height front/rear. Lots of little things moved around add up.


1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!

Last edited by Saleen414; 06-30-2016 at 05:25 PM.
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post #10 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 05:45 PM
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To be fair, when a car is at 50/50 or close to it, a little bit of weight makes the number jump a lot. Here is a picture of the scale with just 5 gallons of fuel taken out of the tank.





1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #11 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 06:29 PM
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If you need more weight in the back you can relocate the battery to the trunk
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post #12 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen414 View Post
Here is a picture of the scale with just 5 gallons of fuel taken out of the tank.
Curious...how come the total weight went up by 1 pound?

Last edited by mlanoux; 06-30-2016 at 06:55 PM. Reason: typo
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post #13 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 08:28 PM
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5 gallons is 40 pounds give or take and about 1.25% of your total weight. Perhaps that is the wrong pic? Corner weighting changes can affect the cross weight but I don't think it will change the front to rear percentage.

1986-045 Saleen Mustang Griggs GR40, 408W RDI aluminum block, AFR 205, T56
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post #14 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlanoux View Post
Curious...how come the total weight went up by 1 pound?
I will have to check my notes. Maybe I ate a big lunch...lol

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #15 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
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5 gallons is 40 pounds give or take and about 1.25% of your total weight. Perhaps that is the wrong pic? Corner weighting changes can affect the cross weight but I don't think it will change the front to rear percentage.
1.25% of total weight that is located about as far rearward as you can get. It does effect the front/rear more than you think. It is the leverage that makes the change more than 1.25% of the front/rear bias. If it was dead center of the rear wheels, you would have a point, but it is a good 12+ inches or more behind the rear wheels.

1989 Saleen 414 358cid SBF 2.8L Kenne Bell S/C
26 X 8.5 Hoosier
Best 1/4 mile time 8.623 @ 159.82 mph with a 1.34 60' (5.57 1/8th at 128)
Best 1/8 mile time 5.339 @ 133.46 mph with a 1.29 60'
08' Bullitt #4097 N/A 340ish RWHP <<<<<FOR SALE!
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post #16 of 19 Old 06-30-2016, 11:50 PM
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You did not take out 8 gallons and only change the static weight by 1 pound. No amount of corner weighting changes will change the static weight although that would be nice. That was the main point I was trying to make. I will go look for corner weighting effects on front to back. I am fairly certain I have read that corner weighting will not materially change that relationship either.

Edit: I found an article by GRM on the subject. See second sentence under Setting Cross Weights.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...orner-weights/

But to your point. Yes a change like we are discussing can have a fairly profound impact.

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post #17 of 19 Old 07-01-2016, 12:33 AM
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I suggest attending a NASA race weekend and politely asking the scales people if you can do a quick weighing. Odds are, they won't mind as long as you aren't mucking up the queue (i.e., do it when there is no queue, when a session like CMC or AI is on track). Alternatively, attend a national-level SCCA auto-x, they always have the scales there.
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post #18 of 19 Old 07-05-2016, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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No worries man, this is why iam here to discuss.

Yes i have 1 pic of the skinned hood (granted theres more i plan on removing but yes) Its on my instagram account, scrool down a bit and you will find it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mlanoux View Post
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but, I'm looking into doing this on a junk hood I have...do you have any pics and/or a write up of what you did?

Thanks,
Mark

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post #19 of 19 Old 07-05-2016, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Ive read/heard that racecars are actually or preferr to be rear heavy, so when your hard on the brakes it shifts to 50/50. Love this stuff

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