Chasing down a new Z28 in my Fox at Putnam Park - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 05-23-2016, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Chasing down a new Z28 in my Fox at Putnam Park

Chased down a new Z28 at Putnam Park in my 1991 Fox.

First time at this track so I even had the added weight of a friend of mine showing me the line.

Apparently he didn't like me back there. As soon as I got close enough to have a little fun with him he slammed on the brakes and waved me by....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5_kca3LrKQ

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post #2 of 44 Old 05-23-2016, 07:53 PM
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That's a fun track. Looks like you were nailing the line pretty good. Also looks like the dude was either driving his mirrors near the end or getting distracted by an instructor or something.

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post #3 of 44 Old 05-23-2016, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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I think he was driving in his mirrors too. He didn't have an instructor in there with him. I had a friend instructor in there with me so he could show me the "line". He's not a small guy either LOL

The Z28 guy said that he's been on this track a few times before. IDK..

Either way, I ran him down and would have got around him even if he wouldn't have waved me by. Felt pretty good to pass him in a car full of 80's technology LOL

It is a fun track! Seemed to be really hard on brakes. Hurt them here way more than I typically do at Mid-Ohio. I typically run Carbotech XP10 front XP 8 rear. When I go there in September I'm going to run the XP20 front XP10 rears

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post #4 of 44 Old 05-24-2016, 08:09 AM
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I think he was driving in his mirrors too. He didn't have an instructor in there with him. I had a friend instructor in there with me so he could show me the "line". He's not a small guy either LOL

The Z28 guy said that he's been on this track a few times before. IDK..

Either way, I ran him down and would have got around him even if he wouldn't have waved me by. Felt pretty good to pass him in a car full of 80's technology LOL

It is a fun track! Seemed to be really hard on brakes. Hurt them here way more than I typically do at Mid-Ohio. I typically run Carbotech XP10 front XP 8 rear. When I go there in September I'm going to run the XP20 front XP10 rears
Make that 1978 technology.

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post #5 of 44 Old 05-24-2016, 12:48 PM
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That track is awesome. Never been on it in a car, but have a lot of laps logged on a motorcycle. It has a lot of grip except the off-camber left hander (turn 4 I think) and fairly smooth. The long straight is very fast as well. Takes balls to get turn one right...

I always enjoy running down a faster/cheaper machine, but it can be annoying getting passed down a straight and then almost hitting them in the ass at the next braking zone.

Nice work!!
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post #6 of 44 Old 05-24-2016, 11:02 PM
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Love it. Absolutely love it.

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post #7 of 44 Old 05-26-2016, 09:35 PM
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Oh yeah...one of my favorite tracks too! That long down hill straight will test your courage as you enter the turn, its amazing how much speed you can carry through there. Nice job on running down the Z.

I hope to back in action soon, taking motor to dyno Monday. Its been 3yrs since I've been on track....

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post #8 of 44 Old 06-10-2016, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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What's the engine combo Toys? There's another track day there in September, sure would be nice to have a few more Foxbody mustangs there. I was the ONLY one LOL.

What oil system are you running on the new setup? I know me and you were having some of the same oil situations years ago...

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post #9 of 44 Old 06-10-2016, 03:37 PM
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Oh not much...alum block 431 this time. Its at the dyno now.




I went with an external wet sump this time and ditched the large mains by using an aftermarket block I found gently used.
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post #10 of 44 Old 06-10-2016, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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I ditched the large mains with an aftermarket block too although mines an iron Dart block.

Still wet sump although I'm using the new Ford oil pan now which seems to control oil slop much better than the Canton pan.

Any chance you'll have it all ready to go by September and go to Putnam? I'd love to see that thing on track!

What kind of numbers are you expecting?


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post #11 of 44 Old 06-10-2016, 05:28 PM
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Not sure, I'd be happy if its 570-ish and tickled if it peaks 600.... Decided to do an engine dyno this time instead of chassis so we'll see. I think the 100-lbs off the nose is going to be biggest improvement.

Sept is a busy month so I'll have to see as we get closer. You ever get to Gingerman or Grattan? Or even autobahn?


Did you do the big bore option this time? Curious what it took to run with that new Z.

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I would absolutely love to take 100lbs off the nose of my car. That damn dart block is HEAVY!

I've never been to any of those tracks. Their just to far away from me. I stick to Mid-Ohio and this was my first time at Putnam.

No big bore... Just a 4.030 bore. I wanted to leave plenty of "meat" for future rebuilds.
It's only a 3.75 stroke too. 383 cu.in. I liked the idea of a little smaller stroke for road racing. It's pretty rev happy.

Made 486 to the rear wheels so it does make good power....

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post #13 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 10:23 AM
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That is not too far from me and I should be home in September. What does it cost to run there and what day are you going?
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post #14 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 10:27 AM
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Oh not much...alum block 431 this time. Its at the dyno now.




I went with an external wet sump this time and ditched the large mains by using an aftermarket block I found gently used.
What heads, intake and is it EFI or Carb?
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post #15 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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It's with 10/10ths motorsports. Awesome group to go with. Tons and tons of track time. Great instructors for beginning drivers. Look up their website. 10 / 10ths Motorsports

I believe it's September 17&18. I will be there both days. I thinks it's $295 for one day and $465 for both.

I would love to see some more foxes out there. I hope you can make it! It would be nice to see some fellow corral members out there.
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post #16 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 11:07 AM
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What heads, intake and is it EFI or Carb?
Vic Jr's I had on the 408W, we upped the valves to 2.08" and did a bit more port work for the 431W. Ported Vic Jr intake and a good carb. Went solid roller this time also. Goal was area under the curve and endurance.
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I believe it's September 17&18. I will be there both days. I thinks it's $295 for one day and $465 for both.
Won't make that one, traveling that week. Should be something at Mid-O in the fall, 3-balls maybe?

Seems like a sea of S197's now, our cars are becoming vintage! Lots of fast Boss302's and with the GT350 its going to be tough to be in the fast group.

486 to the wheels from a 383 that's not too shabby! Solid roller?

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Yes, Solid Roller with a custom road race cam. Nice flat torque curve from 4000R's all the way to 6800R's. Out of the box AFR 225's with Super Vic intake adapted to EFI.
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post #19 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 12:57 PM
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Nice Toys. You have been working on this one for a while. Did you do any plenum work to the Vic jr intake or just port match?
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post #20 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 01:28 PM
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It's with 10/10ths motorsports. Awesome group to go with. Tons and tons of track time. Great instructors for beginning drivers. Look up their website. 10 / 10ths Motorsports

I believe it's September 17&18. I will be there both days. I thinks it's $295 for one day and $465 for both.

I would love to see some more foxes out there. I hope you can make it! It would be nice to see some fellow corral members out there.

Sounds fun and I am definitely in if I am home. Where you normally stay there?
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post #21 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 01:36 PM
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Vic Jr's I had on the 408W, we upped the valves to 2.08" and did a bit more port work for the 431W. Ported Vic Jr intake and a good carb. Went solid roller this time also. Goal was area under the curve and endurance.
As I was reading I was thinking the same thing. That is going to pull hard and at lower rpms as well, which is good for part longevity. Your car should be a beast. What gears are you running with that and what transmission and clutch?

I am thinking the same thing but have not decided on 208's or 220's yet, though I am leaning heavily towards the 220's.
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post #22 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 01:37 PM
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Yes, Solid Roller with a custom road race cam. Nice flat torque curve from 4000R's all the way to 6800R's. Out of the box AFR 225's with Super Vic intake adapted to EFI.
Who did your cam? If you drive on the street, how does it idle and drive in stop and go traffic? Any bucking or surging? What EFI system?

I have a CHP 347 in mine with the XE282 cam and it bucked like crazy but after Mike Post burned me a chip for it, it seems to be better.
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Nice Toys. You have been working on this one for a while. Did you do any plenum work to the Vic jr intake or just port match?
Yeah thanks, would have been done a while ago but had an issue with not enough chamfer on the bottom of the liners which I didn't catch during assembly so this is the second time its going together. Main reason for the engine dyno session this time, want it broken in and checked out before going into the car and wasting track fees. The Vic Jr does have some plenum work done along with port matching. This is actually a 9.2 motor, so my old Vic Jr from the 408W wouldn't work.

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What gears are you running with that and what transmission and clutch?
Lots of changes going into the car with this motor install....replaced the G-Force dog box with a TKO600, got tired of the bang / clang and miserable drivability on the street. Replaced the entire rear axle so out went the 4:10's I had behind the 408W and built a cambered 8.8 floater with 3:73's. We'll see, I really liked the 4:10's but new torque curve and trans ratio's. Clutch is a 7-1/4" QuaterMaster dual disk with their "rally" disks which are thicker and supposed to be more streetable for the small amount of street time I drive.

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post #24 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 02:27 PM
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This is actually a 9.2 motor, so my old Vic Jr from the 408W wouldn't work.



Lots of changes going into the car with this motor install....replaced the G-Force dog box with a TKO600, got tired of the bang / clang and miserable drivability on the street. Replaced the entire rear axle so out went the 4:10's I had behind the 408W and built a cambered 8.8 floater with 3:73's. We'll see, I really liked the 4:11's but new torque curve and trans ratio's. Clutch is a 7-1/4" QuaterMaster dual disk with their "rally" disks which are thicker and supposed to be more streetable for the small amount of street time I drive.
Wow, very nice. I have a build with a 9.2 coming up so I am definitely paying attention to yours. I am guessing you are running a 4 inch stroke if you are having to work the bottom of the cylinders? I have heard the DART blocks have longer cylinders and it is hit or miss on having to work the bottom of them for this reason...true?

The car I bought had a Liberty prepped road racing (different gear ratios) TKO 600 with the other upgrades and it is a dream on the street and strip. You might want to look at something like that. I have never heard of that type of clutch but will look into it. I just threw a SPEC stage 1 in at their recommendation. I have always used them and they have worked great so far.

I am going to be interested to see if 3.73's are going to be too much gear for the kind of torque I suspect you will be making. I look forward to knowing what your torque and horsepower curves look like. You are definitely going to be beating up on some cars with that combination. Good luck with it all and please keep us updated as you go.

Ed
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post #25 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 02:45 PM
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Wow, very nice. I have a build with a 9.2 coming up so I am definitely paying attention to yours. I am guessing you are running a 4 inch stroke if you are having to work the bottom of the cylinders? I have heard the DART blocks have longer cylinders and it is hit or miss on having to work the bottom of them for this reason...true?
Ed
Thanks. Maybe I should start a new post on the build, its kinda getting this one side tracked. This is actually an older RDI block which is very similar to the Ford Racing Z351 aluminum block. It is a 4" stroke and had plenty of rotating clearance, aside from normal notching you do for rod bolt clearance. The issue I had is that my machinast bored and honed it but didn't ease the sharp edge left on the bottom of the liner. Razor sharp as you can imagine which was starting to grab the piston skirts.

9.2 deck motor can be a real bastard, very few off the self combinations. To do a 4" stroke I'm using 6.125" rod with a custom 1.070 CH piston. The money I save using a used block I spent on custom parts and machine work easily. Could have bought a new 9.5" block

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Sounds fun and I am definitely in if I am home. Where you normally stay there?
Well, I hope you can make it. I stayed at the Econo Lodge last time I was up there. There is a Holiday Inn across the street also. Both are in Cloverdale, IN which is about 6 minutes away from the track in Greencastle, IN.



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Who did your cam? If you drive on the street, how does it idle and drive in stop and go traffic? Any bucking or surging? What EFI system?

I have a CHP 347 in mine with the XE282 cam and it bucked like crazy but after Mike Post burned me a chip for it, it seems to be better.
The now defunct Jay Allen at Camshaft Innovations did my cam for me. It idles at 800RPM and never bucks or surges once the car is warmed up. Handles stop and go traffic just fine too. I like it so much that when my original cam got flat spotted from a bad lifter, I had Comp Cams re-grind me a duplicate cam.

Duration is 247I 260E @.050 Lift .688I .675E with 1.7 rockers.

I run 3.55 gears with this setup and it seems perfect. over 400 lb/ft of torque from 3700R's all the way up to 6200R's with a peak of 430 at 5300R's.


I have the original A9L computer with a dyno tune chip from Brian at Dyno Tune Motorsports in Columbus, OH.

Dyno Sheet:
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91 Road Racing Fox. N/A 383W. Full MM setup front and rear with Bilstein coil-overs. 14x1.25 Wilwood 6 piston fronts with Wilwood 13x1 single piston rears.
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post #27 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 03:18 PM
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Well, I hope you can make it. I stayed at the Econo Lodge last time I was up there. There is a Holiday Inn across the street also. Both are in Cloverdale, IN which is about 6 minutes away from the track in Greencastle, IN.





The now defunct Jay Allen at Camshaft Innovations did my cam for me. It idles at 800RPM and never bucks or surges once the car is warmed up. Handles stop and go traffic just fine too. I like it so much that when my original cam got flat spotted from a bad lifter, I had Comp Cams re-grind me a duplicate cam.

Duration is 247I 260E @.050 Lift .688I .675E with 1.7 rockers.

I run 3.55 gears with this setup and it seems perfect. over 400 lb/ft of torque from 3700R's all the way up to 6200R's with a peak of 430 at 5300R's.


I have the original A9L computer with a dyno tune chip from Brian at Dyno Tune Motorsports in Columbus, OH.

Dyno Sheet:
Very nice setup. Look forward to seeing it run. Love that torque curve.

I would definitely crash at the Holiday Inn. I have points with them. I will be there if I am home.....guaranteed.
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post #28 of 44 Old 06-11-2016, 03:24 PM
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Thanks. Maybe I should start a new post on the build, its kinda getting this one side tracked. This is actually an older RDI block which is very similar to the Ford Racing Z351 aluminum block. It is a 4" stroke and had plenty of rotating clearance, aside from normal notching you do for rod bolt clearance. The issue I had is that my machinast bored and honed it but didn't ease the sharp edge left on the bottom of the liner. Razor sharp as you can imagine which was starting to grab the piston skirts.

9.2 deck motor can be a real bastard, very few off the self combinations. To do a 4" stroke I'm using 6.125" rod with a custom 1.070 CH piston. The money I save using a used block I spent on custom parts and machine work easily. Could have bought a new 9.5" block
I would subscribe if you did start a thread on it.

I know there is not much out there in the way of off the shelf stuff for the 9.2 but I believe both SCAT and EAGLE make stroker kits for them, no?

A lot of people on Yellow Bullet love the RDI blocks. I suspect it will work out great for you. I am following your progress. Thanks.

Ed
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post #29 of 44 Old 06-30-2016, 09:05 AM
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Finally dyno'd last night. 607 hp at 6500rpm, 560 ft-lbs at 5200rpm. It makes 500+ ft-lbs from 4100 - 6300 rpm. Both power and torque curves are nice and broad, no peaky crap. Not too bad for NA carb'd motor on 93 pump fuel.

I'll post up data and graph later today. Keep in mind these are engine dyno results, not chassis.

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post #30 of 44 Old 06-30-2016, 11:21 AM
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That is some grunt. The Boss is really back this time.
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post #31 of 44 Old 06-30-2016, 04:12 PM
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GREAT numbers bud. That thing is going to be a blast to drive.
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post #32 of 44 Old 06-30-2016, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Wow!! That's killer!! I would love to see in run on track!!

I hope you have a big oil cooler lol. These things make some serious oil heat at those extended high RPM levels, even with the 2.75 mains. If I'm on mine shifting at 6700 RPM at every shift point, I can run up oil temps to 300 no problem. I even have a legitimate take-off NASCAR oil cooler that's absolutely HUGE. If I shift around 6300 I can keep it steady around 260.

With your oil setup, it might keep it a little cooler than a traditional wet sump. Either way, fit the biggest oil cooler you can on it with no less than -12an lines.

91 Road Racing Fox. N/A 383W. Full MM setup front and rear with Bilstein coil-overs. 14x1.25 Wilwood 6 piston fronts with Wilwood 13x1 single piston rears.
486rwhp/ 430rwtq
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post #33 of 44 Old 07-01-2016, 09:51 AM
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Thanks, the effort seems to have paid off but the true test will of course be on track. I only have data from the dyno so I manually put it in a graph and then laid in the old 408W for comparison. This motor seems to be very similar to the 408 down low but really takes off above 4000 rpm.

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Mike Schneider

1982 Mustang GT - 408w and other super zoomy stuff...
Tracks driven: Mid-Ohio, Grattan, Putnam Park, Gingerman, Autobahn Country Club, Waterford Hills, Ford Proving Grounds, and Bondurant.
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post #34 of 44 Old 09-06-2016, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Toys, you had this thing on the road yet? Wondering how your driveability is and what that monster feels like behind the wheel 😁👹

91 Road Racing Fox. N/A 383W. Full MM setup front and rear with Bilstein coil-overs. 14x1.25 Wilwood 6 piston fronts with Wilwood 13x1 single piston rears.
486rwhp/ 430rwtq
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post #35 of 44 Old 09-18-2016, 09:12 PM
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No I haven't and I'm not happy about it ! Been traveling a lot recently so I guess its not all bad. Just got back from the Goodwood Revival, if you don't know what that is you owe it to yourself to google it. Awesome motor-head event to say the least.

Actually I've been messing around with the clutch, converting to hydraulic but not using one of those awful kits. That is done as of today and all that's left is modifying the exhaust to mate up to the merge collectors I added.

Any events left in the mid-west between now and snow season?

Mike

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Mike Schneider

1982 Mustang GT - 408w and other super zoomy stuff...
Tracks driven: Mid-Ohio, Grattan, Putnam Park, Gingerman, Autobahn Country Club, Waterford Hills, Ford Proving Grounds, and Bondurant.
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