Anyone who has done Open Track/HPDE/Road Racing in a fox with stock brakes? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-15-2016, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone who has done Open Track/HPDE/Road Racing in a fox with stock brakes?

I have a buddy who is wanting to come out with me on a few HPDE weekends this year. He's got a 1991 that's basically 100% stock except for some subframe connectors, shocks/struts, (stock springs) and exhaust.


He's not going to invest in 5-lug conversions OR upgraded brake systems yet. He's not even sure this road racing is for him at this point. However, he is going to buy an appropriate set of pads and shoes.


I did an HPDE weekend over a decade ago with stock brakes and generic "high performance" Autozone type pads and shoes. I would get a good lap in and that was IT. Brakes were overheated and fading BAD! Now, I would like him to come out on the track day and be able to enjoy himself without worrying about running off the course with his brake pedal to the floor.


So, I need a recommendation on a set of pads and shoes. I know he needs brake ducts, I know he needs bigger rotors, I know he needs a rear disc conversion......That's not happening for the first few track weekends.

I just need some recommendations on a set of pads and shoes that will work well together under the conditions for a beginning HPDE driver.

I was thinking maybe a set of Hawk Blues for the front but I have no idea about a set of shoes that would work well with the Hawks. Any of you guys done a setup like this with a small margin of success?


91 Road Racing Fox. N/A 383W. Full MM setup front and rear with Bilstein coil-overs. 14x1.25 Wilwood 6 piston fronts with Wilwood 13x1 single piston rears.
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post #2 of 9 Old 05-16-2016, 12:02 AM
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Hawk Blues are old technology - I would go with the DTC60s or DTC70s for essentially the same $$$ if you're going with Hawk. It occurs to me, though, that if your friend is going to run street tires the 60s/70s might be too aggressive.

So, with that said, perhaps some Carbotech XP8s or XP10s? Still very good track pads, but not quite as hard-core. (Or check with G-LOC, which apparently was recently started by some ex-Carbotech employees and offers similar compounds. Looks like their pricing may be a bit better.)

As for drums, looks like Porterfield makes a couple drum compounds to pair with their front pad compounds. I've never used them, but if you're looking for a performance shoe, that may be your only option.


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post #3 of 9 Old 05-16-2016, 09:44 AM
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He of course will need something like Motul 600 and he better start braking early and easy or he's done and as you know once you've overheated everything it doesn't recover much.

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post #4 of 9 Old 05-16-2016, 10:59 AM
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i got away with Hawk HP Plus pads back when i first started out. in a 3500 lb car and no brake ducts.....but that was with 14" rotors and alcon calipers. i wouldnt go so aggressive to DTC 60s or 70s yet, especially if he still is running drums. im with you on getting a set of Blues to start and some good fluid
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post #5 of 9 Old 05-16-2016, 12:23 PM
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The front pad and fluid suggestions on here make sense. I have heard good things from one of my tech buddies about the Maximum Motorsport rear shoes; he's done a few cars with them and found them to offer the best performance.


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Another (superfluous) suggestion for your friend would be to make sure he takes anything and everything out of the car to lighten it as much as possible and to take it real easy.


I used to HDPE my old Fox in the late 80's.... recall the Porsche guys being worried about all the smoke coming out of the front wheelwells.....told 'em that was normal...which for a Fox....IT WAS

Guaranteed he will be replacing all the brakes after a day at the track. Would also think at least 10W40 in the motor.
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-16-2016, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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I really appreciate all the responses guys! I looked into the porterfield shoes....that looks like a possibility.

He likes the MM upgrade kit that comes with the pads, shoes, caliper sleeves and SS lines. He said he can substitute the front pads for Hawk blues.

Thanks for the post about MM shoes. They come in the kit mentioned above so I think he might go that route.

91 Road Racing Fox. N/A 383W. Full MM setup front and rear with Bilstein coil-overs. 14x1.25 Wilwood 6 piston fronts with Wilwood 13x1 single piston rears.
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post #7 of 9 Old 05-17-2016, 07:39 PM
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I open tracked a 1986 GT back in the 80's. It still had the small 10 inch front rotors like the 4 cyl. cars had. The 11 inch rotors didn't come until 1987!
I learned to manage my brakes and never had an issue with brake fade, well just a bit, but I never had a scare from it. The one thing that I did was to adjust the rear brake shoes often. Sometimes I did it 2-3 times a day. You could do the normal back up and apply the brakes hard but I preferred to jack up the car and hand adjust the drums until I had a good bit of drag on each drum. It helped keep the pedal up and not sink down as the brakes got hot.

I did go with custom rear shows at some point since any normal shoes available just would not hold up to the heat. I sent out a set of shoes to have them lined with a high temp lining.

The thing was this was not a problem for me as I had open tracked a 1974 Mercury Capri 2.8L V6 before the Mustang. It had 9.75 X .5 inch front rotors and actually bigger drums then the Mustang, 9 X 2.25 vrs the 9 X 1.75 the Mustang had. I did upgrade the front rotors to wider vented rotors that the European Capris got. Which helped a lot.

"Drag racing is for those people who don't know how to down shift and brake at the same time. "
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Cars owned: '86 Mustang GT, '92 Mustang LX, '93 Mustang Cobra "R" #58
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-17-2016, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
As for drums, looks like Porterfield makes a couple drum compounds to pair with their front pad compounds. I've never used them, but if you're looking for a performance shoe, that may be your only option.
I got some Porterfield front pads back in the day (I forget if I also got the shoes but I have to imagine I did since a buddy of mine was good at doing rear brakes); was heading to an auto-x one early morning and I shot right through a red light, not a damn thing I could do about it. Luckily, it was 5:30am and no one was in the intersection. Turns out, they had sent me the road racing pad and not their auto-x pad; I had to drag those suckers to warm them up plus the dust (which would probably be safely blown away at road racing speeds) melded to my wheels and destroyed them. They also ate my rotors for lunch. Car did stop like a sumbitch though for the few months they were on. Always verify part #s before installation!
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-18-2016, 09:45 AM
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Hey Aurdraco, your story reminds me of what a friend told me about "racing" brake pads. See he went to work for Saleen Racing around 1986 or so. He was there less then 6 months but did help prep both the Saleen Mustangs and the Ranger PU's for the pro "showroom" stock racing series that both IMSA and SCCA were running at that time.

During the endurance races with the Mustangs; they ran up to 24 hours; they would service the car during pit stops and not change the brake pads! The pads were some kind of titanium compound that just did not wear, did not fade, and kept the fluid from boiling! What did wear was the iron rotors! They would change them instead! This was the Lincoln brake rotors and not the standard Mustang rotors. Think SVO brakes.

Later after he left the team he offered me a set of the pads for my car. I declined. One, they wouldn't fit my stock calipers and two, I didn't want to have to carry spare rotors with me!

"Drag racing is for those people who don't know how to down shift and brake at the same time. "
DD '12 VW Jetta TDI, Race car '87 ITA 16V Scriocco
Cars owned: '86 Mustang GT, '92 Mustang LX, '93 Mustang Cobra "R" #58
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