Manual Power Stering Qestions - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 02-20-2016, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Manual Power Stering Qestions

I am thinking about going with a manual flaming river rack. This brings me to my first question. I assume driving around it wont be bad with skinnies but curious how it will be with some 18's up front? Anyone with real world experience? Some one has driven with manual steering with 255's or something like that up front? Not a daily driver but if it is just a weekend toy.

Will this also mean no plans for road racing? I am trying to figure if I am going to build my car for drag and a little road racing. I guess if I go with manual steering this will kill any road racing plans??

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post #2 of 8 Old 02-21-2016, 09:23 AM
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As this is a not going to be a daily driver it really shouldn't matter much. My experience with manual is that steering effort is really only noticeable at low speeds. Parking, on and off trailer, in the pits that's when you'll notice it. Wider tires = more grip, so efforts will be more than skinny front runners. If you go that route, good news is the workout but won't matter on the track. It should not kill your road racing plans.

Slightly amusing story, In college I drove buses including a few manual steering ones from the early 1960s. Trainers on your first day would take you out in the oldest manual steering bus in the fleet. Have you buckle your seat belt and try to turn the wheel to make a right turn while the bus was sitting still. They'd goad you saying keep turning the steering wheel more and more as you're not gonna get this bus to make that turn. Then as a joke, they'd reach over and unclick your seat belt. Most of us ended up thrown to the floor. We learned fast that manual steering wasn't a problem if you keep moving.


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Last edited by wlmrt66; 02-21-2016 at 09:27 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #3 of 8 Old 05-07-2016, 05:20 PM
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Greetings. I have a 87 convertible road race street Fox. N/A 444 rwhp, sticky NT01's 255/40 and 315/35 s
Installed a Flaming River 20:1 manual rack, along with a 12" Momo wheel when I first built the car. Run about 5 hard HPDEs per year.


The manual rack is awesome for feedback and cleanliness in the engine compartment. Yes, it is way harder to turn at slow speeds - it is also IMPOSSIBLE to turn in quickly enough on the road course with sticky tires; certainly not for more than one lap at a time. Physical workout? totally!
Fun ? Absolutely.
Fast and consistent? Not a chance.


Took Jack Hiddley from MM 3 yrs to talk me into re-installing power steering, but now have the full MM catalog in the car, incl extended wheelbase, widened tracks, engine set back 1" and running 18x10's with Hoosier/Conti full slicks front and back.

Jack told me with 7* caster I wouldn't be able to turn the car at all, lol
Can't wait to finish putting it all together this summer, car is currently in a million pcs.




If you are only going to run once or twice a season on the roadcourse, you can get away with it. If I was doing it again, I would do 15:1 ratio, but it would be even more work and an absolute pain in the balls backing up etc.


Here's one of my bud and son chasing me in his 700rwhp GT500 on full slicks, I'm on street tires there, still with stock suspension architecture, MM Koni coilovers and control arms, cc plates.
Starts app 5:00 into this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swr6xAQ3m-U






And just for fun - a drag race lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHrrlspKmlA




Here is a vid chasing down a new S550 at my fave track - Mosport DDT near Toronto, Canada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_2yTyzbCCQ


Notice the understeer - that is usually inability to turn in quick enough, or for setting up for the next corner - no way can you control the car to the degree or precision needed without power steering.


Usually soaked from the workout after 10 laps at 70 ambient temps.
Look like I came out of the shower when it's 90 and humid lol
Most people would say it's impossible to the drive the car in anger for any length of time. Had a couple of agricultural experiences due to being too tired to turn the wheel hard enough and just hop the curbs and come back on.......insane and fun.


Can't wait to see how much faster it will be. We figure 3-4 sec on both of the road courses shown; a big part of that because of the power steering.
Hoping to run away from that pesky Shelby as well as an older Viper in our club.
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post #4 of 8 Old 05-07-2016, 05:52 PM
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I'm in the same boat. I am looking to go manual to make room for a crankcase vacuum pump where the power steering pump is now. Unless I can find a bracket to keep both then it will be gym time.

255s up front and 99% street driven.
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post #5 of 8 Old 06-14-2016, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERICS3000 View Post
I am thinking about going with a manual flaming river rack. This brings me to my first question. I assume driving around it wont be bad with skinnies but curious how it will be with some 18's up front? Anyone with real world experience? Some one has driven with manual steering with 255's or something like that up front? Not a daily driver but if it is just a weekend toy.

Will this also mean no plans for road racing? I am trying to figure if I am going to build my car for drag and a little road racing. I guess if I go with manual steering this will kill any road racing plans??
I run Flaming River 15:1 rack on my dedicated road course car. Car weighs 2750 and have used tires up to 315/35/17 on the front with 4 degrees caster. As another poster said, it's a real workout, a pain in the butt in the pits, but you get go-kart steering feel and an extra 5-10hp from shift-point to shift-point. You can check out the videos page on my website to see what it's like to drive.

Frank

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http://fastfrankmotorsports.com
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post #6 of 8 Old 06-14-2016, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERICS3000 View Post
I am thinking about going with a manual flaming river rack. This brings me to my first question. I assume driving around it wont be bad with skinnies but curious how it will be with some 18's up front? Anyone with real world experience? Some one has driven with manual steering with 255's or something like that up front? Not a daily driver but if it is just a weekend toy.

Will this also mean no plans for road racing? I am trying to figure if I am going to build my car for drag and a little road racing. I guess if I go with manual steering this will kill any road racing plans??
Eric,

I ran manual steering on my drag/street car and as mentioned, at low speeds and in parking lots and that kind of thing, you feel it and need to muscle the steering wheel a bit. After you get going though, 10mph or more, it is not very noticeable. You also have less drag on your engine so you will make a tad bit more power, along with losing about 15 or 20lbs off the nose of the car.

I have heard guys talk bad about the Flaming River stuff. It is because you have to notch the shaft that the retaining bit tightens up to, I guess on others you do not. I have run Flaming River stuff for years and never had any issues with it. I believe it is a case of one person supporting one company over another more than reality. Again, this is real world experience, not internet reading. Good luck in whatever way you decide to go.

Ed
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post #7 of 8 Old 06-14-2016, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input guys.

Tulowd I love your build too.

I have had plenty of cars and trucks that I have lost p.s with. I know from experience driving 44 boggers and no p.s. LOL. So I love the look with out the PS but wasn't sure if I could really run on a road coarse with out it. I have been trying to decide what I am going to do with my coupe when I pick it up from my other house where its been sitting for a while. I was just going to setup suspension for drag and play with it on the street a little. I have just been thinking lately I miss running in the SCCA. I might want to do a dual purpose build. My first thought with my coupe since it has a lot of rust I was going to yank the drive train for put it in a 4 banger. Now i think it is the perfect car to play with if I wreck it no big deal. Than maybe build a 2nd turbo dart block show car. I moved a couple years ago and all my toys have been on hold and I have been get ansy. I barely have time for one car but having one to play with while building a nice one might be the best of both worlds. A little more money but maybe I can try to be realistic with one.
I have also been thinking maybee I can just register and insure one and move the plate back and forth. Crazy maybe LOL
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post #8 of 8 Old 06-15-2016, 03:01 AM
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Eric,

I bought a car from yogibear357 on the corral here. It was already setup for the road courses. I have been a drag racer all my life and decided to try this. I took it to the track and it would not 60 ft worth a crap. I drove it and raced it just like I drive it on the street, no tire swap, no weight pulled, I just drove in, ran it down the track 5 times and left.

Road cars will not run good at the drag strip. You can get in the average range with some sticky tires, adjustable struts maybe, but I have not done that yet. I do plan on it when I get home just to see what it will do. The road racing is a ton of fun though, you should consider building it for the road course and street. That is what my current car is setup for and it is very fun.
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