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post #1 of 26 Old 12-09-2015, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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noise in rear

I have a clunking noise in the rear that I am trying to locate. It could be in the rear end itself which I know is worn out and I will be getting it rebuilt in the next few weeks. I also am wondering if it's in the LCAs. I have the MM standard duty LCAs and have replaced the chassis end poly bushings already because they were worn out. Now I am wondering about the axle end. Has anybody had to replace or heard of anyone having to replace the axle end spherical bearings and is there a good way to check them for wear?


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post #2 of 26 Old 12-10-2015, 07:14 AM
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I had to replace both my entire LCAs because the metal bearings got hogged out! The mounting bolts were corroded to the aluminum bearings. The passenger side I was able to use a ball joint press to press the bolt out and then whack it the rest of the way with a hammer. The drivers side I basically had to use an angle grinder to cut away at the bearing and bolt--they were that seized together. Installing the new bolts I used liberal anti-seize.

See this video for how much slop there was in the metal bearing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Y8TwGcPHc

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post #3 of 26 Old 12-10-2015, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Wow that's some slop! I think I better take a close look.

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post #4 of 26 Old 12-10-2015, 07:01 PM
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Once the snap ring is removed, the entire bearing can be pressed out.

Why did you need to replace the entire RLCA?

If you drive the car in an environment with a lot of rain and or salt, buy two pairs of the blue thrust bushings from the XD series RLCAs. Install these on the bearing end of the HD RLCA. They will keep water and salt out of the bearing.

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post #5 of 26 Old 12-11-2015, 07:18 AM
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That might be good information for you folks to include on your website, or in the instructions for the HD arms. What's the reason for using the blue urethane pieces on the chassis end and not at the axle end on the XD arms?

As far as replacing the entire RLCA, the one that came off with a ball joint press wasn't damaged, but the one I had to grind through had a few nicks because the angles were't great for grinding. Both were rusty as f*ck, as well. And if I could, I would redesign your spring perch with method of draining the cup.

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Originally Posted by j rick kirby View Post
Wow that's some slop! I think I better take a close look.
You could probably just jack the car up and unbolt the RLCA at the axle end to see if/how much slop you have.
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post #6 of 26 Old 12-11-2015, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by huesmann View Post
That might be good information for you folks to include on your website, or in the instructions for the HD arms. What's the reason for using the blue urethane pieces on the chassis end and not at the axle end on the XD arms?

As far as replacing the entire RLCA, the one that came off with a ball joint press wasn't damaged, but the one I had to grind through had a few nicks because the angles were't great for grinding. Both were rusty as f*ck, as well. And if I could, I would redesign your spring perch with method of draining the cup.


You could probably just jack the car up and unbolt the RLCA at the axle end to see if/how much slop you have.
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post #7 of 26 Old 12-11-2015, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j rick kirby View Post
I have a clunking noise in the rear that I am trying to locate. It could be in the rear end itself which I know is worn out and I will be getting it rebuilt in the next few weeks. I also am wondering if it's in the LCAs. I have the MM standard duty LCAs and have replaced the chassis end poly bushings already because they were worn out. Now I am wondering about the axle end. Has anybody had to replace or heard of anyone having to replace the axle end spherical bearings and is there a good way to check them for wear?
I share your problem.....
I just replaced the rear CA (upper and lower) on my 93 vert. The original LCA's bushings were shot (not making noise, but the car started sitting funny after several free suspension lifts courtesy of my local repair shop having the re-repair the clutch and starter 3 times). So, I opted for the LMR upper and lower rear control arms and bushings. While replacing these items, I put in new Monroe shocks and spring isolators. NOW, I have a random "clunk" in the right rear. It's so random that I don't know how I am going to be able to pin point it. Meanwhile, the car now sits HIGHER than stock AND a half inch higher on the pass side than the driver side. UGH.

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post #8 of 26 Old 12-11-2015, 01:27 PM
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Since the XD RLCAs have spherical bearings at both ends of them, if the rear swaybar is not installed, there is nothing to keep the RLCA square with the chassis. This is important to do as the spring can rotate the RLCA in an arc. The blue thrust washers on the XD RLCAs are to keep the RLCA held at approximately right angles to the chassis.

Eventually we will probably start including these thrust bushings at both ends of all XD and HD RLCAs.

Around 4 years ago we changed the powder coating finish on all of our products. The new finish (rough) increases the life of the part 400% in a salt spray test. Your RLCAs look like the older finish (smooth).

We can't add a drain hole to the RLCAs with a fixed spring perch. This would complicate the assembly process a lot and result in RLCAs that rusted from the inside out. We could possibly add a drain hole to the RLCAs with an adjustable spring perch. Which RLCAs did you have? Can you post any photos of the problem this caused?

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post #9 of 26 Old 12-12-2015, 10:40 AM
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Alas, I've tossed both arms. This is the only pic I can easily find, of the one that did not require grinding the bearing away to get it off.

This must be your older powdercoating; the arms were very old. As you can see, it's not exactly in the greatest shape.

It's my opinion that water collects in the perch cup (for all-weather cars) and if there's even the smallest nick in the powedercoat, rust gets started there.
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post #10 of 26 Old 12-13-2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by huesmann View Post
Alas, I've tossed both arms. This is the only pic I can easily find, of the one that did not require grinding the bearing away to get it off.

This must be your older powdercoating; the arms were very old. As you can see, it's not exactly in the greatest shape.

It's my opinion that water collects in the perch cup (for all-weather cars) and if there's even the smallest nick in the powedercoat, rust gets started there.
Wow husemann!!! That is some rust.
Until now, I have never been thankful for living in Southern Commifornia. LOL!!!
How bad does the rest of the car fair in those conditions?
My heart goes out to you guys that have to deal with the road salt.

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post #11 of 26 Old 12-13-2015, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
Since the XD RLCAs have spherical bearings at both ends of them, if the rear swaybar is not installed, there is nothing to keep the RLCA square with the chassis. This is important to do as the spring can rotate the RLCA in an arc. The blue thrust washers on the XD RLCAs are to keep the RLCA held at approximately right angles to the chassis.

Eventually we will probably start including these thrust bushings at both ends of all XD and HD RLCAs.

Around 4 years ago we changed the powder coating finish on all of our products. The new finish (rough) increases the life of the part 400% in a salt spray test. Your RLCAs look like the older finish (smooth).

We can't add a drain hole to the RLCAs with a fixed spring perch. This would complicate the assembly process a lot and result in RLCAs that rusted from the inside out. We could possibly add a drain hole to the RLCAs with an adjustable spring perch. Which RLCAs did you have? Can you post any photos of the problem this caused?
Jack,

Would it be problematic to drill a hole or a notch at lower edge (backside) of the spring cup where it meets the spring perch plate?
The weld seam would obviously have to stop at the hole. I don't know if that would still complicate the assembly process or not...but it might be a solution for both types of arms.
That all being said...it would probably clog with road/track debris fairly quickly.
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post #12 of 26 Old 12-13-2015, 08:57 PM
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EJ,

If we put a hole there, water still gets trapped by the lower spring isolator that goes on top of the lower spring perch.

If the hole is too small, it quickly gets clogged with small rocks. Additionally it creates problems with powder coating. Since the part is electrostatically charged to powder coat it, any areas of the part with edges near each other, such as a small hole, tend to end up with a thin coating as the like charges repeal each other.

On the RLCA models with an adjustable spring perch we could add a hole in the bottom of the perch inside of the pilot tube. This would allow water to drain out and down the sides of the weight jack screw. However, this part couldn't be used on the fixed perch RLCAs, so now we have to deal with inventory of two different perches.

There are always a lot of seemingly unforeseen things to consider.

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post #13 of 26 Old 12-14-2015, 02:56 AM
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EJ,

If we put a hole there, water still gets trapped by the lower spring isolator that goes on top of the lower spring perch.

If the hole is too small, it quickly gets clogged with small rocks. Additionally it creates problems with powder coating. Since the part is electrostatically charged to powder coat it, any areas of the part with edges near each other, such as a small hole, tend to end up with a thin coating as the like charges repeal each other.

On the RLCA models with an adjustable spring perch we could add a hole in the bottom of the perch inside of the pilot tube. This would allow water to drain out and down the sides of the weight jack screw. However, this part couldn't be used on the fixed perch RLCAs, so now we have to deal with inventory of two different perches.

There are always a lot of seemingly unforeseen things to consider.
Jack,

Copy that! I totally forgot about the isolator...
I'm sure you guys have tried every option to this point. I've never received an under engineered part from MM.
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post #14 of 26 Old 12-14-2015, 07:14 AM
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The UMI control arms have a design that allows cup drainage:

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post #15 of 26 Old 12-14-2015, 02:04 PM
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FWIW, for those running stock rubber bushed uppers. The clunk I had seemed to occur when I turned into/out-of my driveway. There were other times too but those I didn't hear as easily as the former. In my case, the clunk came from bushing rotation. Apparently, I didn't get the torque correct, or if I did they needed more. In any event, I tightened the uppers (chassis side) and the clunk went away.
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post #16 of 26 Old 12-15-2015, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by budman5.0 View Post
I share your problem.....
I just replaced the rear CA (upper and lower) on my 93 vert. The original LCA's bushings were shot (not making noise, but the car started sitting funny after several free suspension lifts courtesy of my local repair shop having the re-repair the clutch and starter 3 times). So, I opted for the LMR upper and lower rear control arms and bushings. While replacing these items, I put in new Monroe shocks and spring isolators. NOW, I have a random "clunk" in the right rear. It's so random that I don't know how I am going to be able to pin point it. Meanwhile, the car now sits HIGHER than stock AND a half inch higher on the pass side than the driver side. UGH.
Mine does this too, Does it happen when you move from a dead stop? My car sits the same way as well.

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post #17 of 26 Old 12-16-2015, 12:43 AM
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Mine does this too, Does it happen when you move from a dead stop? My car sits the same way as well.
No. Not from a dead stop (or even a roll for that matter). In fact, I can leave hard from a light (even with some tire spin) and no noise.

As far as the height goes, someone told me that the springs need to be "turned" a certain way. My guess is the shop that did the work didn't pay attention to that and just installed everything.

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post #18 of 26 Old 12-16-2015, 01:14 AM
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The bottom end of each spring should be pointing to the left (9 o'clock) or left-forward (10:30 o'clock).

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post #19 of 26 Old 12-16-2015, 11:56 AM
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The bottom end of each spring should be pointing to the left (9 o'clock) or left-forward (10:30 o'clock).
Thanks. But, to be clear, are you saying that the drivers side bottom end of the rear spring should be pointing (basically) at the drivers side wheel? I'm not sure what you mean about left forward, exactly. What about the pass side? Or do they point in the same direction?
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post #20 of 26 Old 12-16-2015, 12:20 PM
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Yes and Yes. My clock directions are when viewed from the top of the car looking down. The front of the car is at 12 o'clock.

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post #21 of 26 Old 12-16-2015, 04:22 PM
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FWIW, I use the cut edge of the spring as a reference. While I have the MM height adjustable LCAs, I need to place the springs in different positions with different thickness isos in order to get a balanced adjustment side to side. In my case, the PS uses a stock rubber iso cut into a "C" to account for a body-side deformation that caused the spring on that side to raise the car. That spring has the cut edge at about the 11 o'clock position (looking down from the top). On the DS, I needed to use both a stock rubber and a poly iso to get that side even with the other side. The DS spring is at about the 6 o'clock position. Once done, the height adjusters were even so raising/lowering the car was a simple matter of measuring how much adjustment I wanted and adjust the same on both sides. Car is dead even within .125" side to side which is basically measuring error allowance.
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post #22 of 26 Old 12-17-2015, 09:58 AM
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Thanks. One thing that a co-worker noticed when I pulled it into work recently was that the sway bar seems to be crossing the pumpkin (center section of the rear) about an 1" +/- LOWER than the pumpkin. Could that be a possible cause? Could the have installed it upside down, causing a "clunk"?


(Not trying to hijack this thread, but, maybe its all related or the same as the OP's problem.)

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post #23 of 26 Old 12-19-2015, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post
The bottom end of each spring should be pointing to the left (9 o'clock) or left-forward (10:30 o'clock).
Thanks for the info, Mine are pointed to the 6 o'clock position. When I installed my springs that's what the instructions said to do.

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post #24 of 26 Old 12-20-2015, 12:09 PM
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The issue I had with my car has always been the bolts. Half the aftermarket stuff I buy uses inch bolts, and the Fox used metric. Since the inch is clearanced the net clearance to the metric winds up over .030. Going down the road or doing launches, the bolt keeps slamming the bushing and eventually wallows it out.

Also, the threads contact the bracket and the sleeve. That puts sharp thread points on the metal and wears the threads and sleeves or brackets, plus the clearances allow the bolt to slightly bend.

I finally bought some bolts that have shoulder all the way through all contact parts and used a self-lube bronze bushing sleeve that has close clearance to the bolt and steel bushing. Now no slop and no bend, and no threads on pressure points.


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post #25 of 26 Old 12-20-2015, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomR View Post
The issue I had with my car has always been the bolts. Half the aftermarket stuff I buy uses inch bolts, and the Fox used metric. Since the inch is clearanced the net clearance to the metric winds up over .030. Going down the road or doing launches, the bolt keeps slamming the bushing and eventually wallows it out.

Also, the threads contact the bracket and the sleeve. That puts sharp thread points on the metal and wears the threads and sleeves or brackets, plus the clearances allow the bolt to slightly bend.

I finally bought some bolts that have shoulder all the way through all contact parts and used a self-lube bronze bushing sleeve that has close clearance to the bolt and steel bushing. Now no slop and no bend, and no threads on pressure points.
That's some good info Tom!

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post #26 of 26 Old 12-28-2015, 12:30 PM
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Any luck on fixing the noise Walter?

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