Fox Coupe...New Cooling set-up but Question for you on how effective it seems - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Fox Coupe...New Cooling set-up but Question for you on how effective it seems

Hi All,

So I have a brand new cooling set-up on a 91 Coupe that I'm building to do Open track days and since today it's 97 degrees out I thought I'd give it a test. After the car was warm I let it Idle for about 15 minutes and the temp climbed up to 210 or just over on the Autometer gauge but stayed steady. A/C was OFF the whole time. Once driving it settles back down to 180 at constant cruise. I'm basically just asking if 210 after sitting for 15 mins sounds ok to you guys.

My question to all of you is this an acceptable temp based on my combo below or does anyone thing something doesn't sound right.

Here's the new Cooling setup.
- New DCC Controller
- Lincoln Mark VIII Fan(Bench tested perfectly)
- New Griffin 31" x 19" 1.25" inch tubes radiator
- New Edlebrock Water pump w/93 Cobra Waterpump Pulley(Small)
- 180 thermostat
- 130 Amp Alternator

Motor:
347ci N/A, 10:1CR, E303 Cam. Shorty Headers TFS heads...nothing special.

Hood:
Stock Hood with Air vent reliefs(2013 Mustang GT hood vents) as well as the modified gt500 center vent.

Front-End:
Opened up the mouth area on the LX fascia to get a bigger section for air flowing through. Right now the radiator is partially(temp set-up) boxed in and it is a front breather only. Yes it still has the A/C and want to try and keep it but yes I know the condenser can kills temps when doing track day activities.

The car is fairly new to me and it's been a while since my last Foxbody. IMO I was shocked it could keep the temp closer to 180 but maybe that is not realistic when it is basically 100 degrees outside. In mid 80 degree weather and spirited driving the temp will get to 195 with this set-up. I shift the car no higher than 5500 since it's a 347. I haven't got it out to the track with the new set-up

I know the DCC control unit brings on the fan soft and up to full speed but does anyone know at what temp it goes full tilt? even at 210 the fan was blowing hard I guess) but I'm not so sure it was harder than the Black Magic Extreme fan I just replaced.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks in advance,
Chad

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post #2 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 06:00 PM
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Seems to me it should have stayed closer to your thermostat temp, but if it went to 210 and held steady while standing still I'd take the next step and go beat on it for a few minutes at a time. I'd also see what it can do in stop/go traffic with the A/C on. Personally I wonder if 1.25 is deep enough.


Last edited by MFE; 09-09-2015 at 06:02 PM.
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post #3 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry the 1.25" refers to the new larger size of the Griffin tubes vs. their older 1" tubes. It's a big radiator as we had to modify slightly just to get it to fit. As soon as I started driving it the temp dropped right back to 180.

I was just curious if anyone else with similar set-ups see 210 while idling for an extended period of time while in 100 degree heat.

Thanks MFE for the reply...since you live in AZ I was hoping you'd chime in ;-)

Chad
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post #4 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 06:25 PM
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I run similar Temps on a hot day minus getting that hot at idle. It usually will run 200 at idle in 100 degree plus days with the mkviii fan. Cool days will see temps regulated to the thermostat and a lower difference between the two sensors. Normally you will see 5 to 15 degree split between the eec temp sensor and your auto meter temp if the sensors are on opposite sides of the intake
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 07:11 PM
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My setup is similar. 347, 9.6/1, custom cam, m8, fms pump, alum. rad., dcc, 180, 3G alt. My cruise temp is 185-190 and idle for awhile it gets to 210. No Ac.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 07:15 PM
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I have a Taurus fan and a 3-core (or large 2-core) radiator, and last time I tried a torture test with stop & go traffic at about 115 outside, temps climbed to 225+ and I had to shut the A/C off to keep it cool.
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, thanks everyone...sounds like things are fine. I will check to see if my 130 amp Alternator isn't all it's cracked up to be as that is one item on the car I haven't changed. It was suggested that it could cause the Mark VIII not to run at full steam if the DCC controller isn't sensing enough amps to get it going full blast. .


For you N/A Open track guys is 210 ok for these motors on track and/or is there a magic number to stay below before warping heads etc? I apologize but I'm just getting back into Foxbodies and this will be my first attempt to make one decent on the road race track w/o making it a full AI car ;-)

Thanks again everyone!!!
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-09-2015, 08:13 PM
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I wouldn't sweat 210 or 220 or even 230. I used to run my GT40 irons to 240 routinely and never had a problem but at that point I might start to worry about aluminum heads.
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post #9 of 17 Old 09-12-2015, 01:39 PM
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You've made some good mods for open tracking in the heat. Fully boxing/sealing the radiator is a huge improvement, well done with that, fill every hole!

Make sure your fan is coming on at a temp low enough that it's not trying to play catch up. I assume your DCC has an adjustment potentiometer. If so, set it so the fan comes on at 195-200. If it still goes to 210 after turning on at 195, you know you have work to do. In high temp open track driving, temps tend to "creep" with time, so if you can start the session 10 degrees cooler you're better off.

Not to derail your original post or make any assumptions, but oil temps can be the bigger issue on the race track if you have not already worked on this. 210 ECT is ok on the track, but oil temp tends to run about 80-130 degrees higher than coolant temps depending on your oil cooling capacity/efficiency. Anything over 300 degrees is starting to hurt the engine, and 350 is big trouble. Oil temps generally creep directly with the coolant temp.

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post #10 of 17 Old 09-12-2015, 04:39 PM
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In my personal research on cooling i have discovered somethings. These are first that come to mind. Mind you this is on my car and may vary on others.

My car runs a lot cooler with iron heads than it did with aftermarket aluminum heads
My car runs cooler with the small electric fan set up as a pusher than it did as a puller (fan is in front of rad. compared to old setup behind)
Make sure the cooling system is filled with water/coolant, ive had the issue of not having enough coolant in the system and running her so one day i opened hood and removed the radiator cap, i let the car run with cap open. Once the thermostat (180) opened the radiator basically became empty i couldnt believe it. I was like 2 containers shot, cant remember but i think it was almost 2 gallons of coolant low. Once the thermo opened i began pouring coolant into the radiator till it was full then capped her back up.

also, i hate to mention but those 2013/14 vents are way to far back on the hood.


edit #1: In my car personally ive noticed when driving at high speeds the car runs very cool, i dont even use my small electric fan. Only time she starts getting warm is idling and stop in go traffic. Im very impressed because with my current setup the car runs MUCH cooler than my last motor with aluminum heads and same fan. With fiberglass cobra r hood and fan on the back of the radiator i would see 240 degrees sitting in traffic, panicking.

Now with stock hood (custom heat extractor setup) and fan on the front of the radiator she runs very cool. ill have to do a test when i get home in the summer

idling temp:
Traffic temp:
WOT temp:

I want to box the radiator in and create a rear facing duct to feed hot air from the radiator to right outside going through the massive hole i cut in my stock hood.

Edit#2 Here is my how my car is currently:

http://i.imgur.com/7A3PtbA.jpg?1


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post #11 of 17 Old 09-12-2015, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFE View Post
I have a Taurus fan and a 3-core (or large 2-core) radiator, and last time I tried a torture test with stop & go traffic at about 115 outside, temps climbed to 225+ and I had to shut the A/C off to keep it cool.

Was this with gt500 vent ?

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post #12 of 17 Old 09-13-2015, 12:06 PM
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post #13 of 17 Old 09-13-2015, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFE View Post
yes

just realized you have over 26k posts....

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post #14 of 17 Old 09-14-2015, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Escort, Thanks for your post,,,I'm not convinced my GT vents are too far back...see unfortunately my GT500 vent is too far forward with the new "wide" radiator and e-fan and the vent is no longer behind the fan and IMO unless at this point. The GT vents were added later and I made sure they were far enough back that flow coming out of the Rad is able to flow up and out of the vents but not too far back that it doesn't promote air escaping. So if you look at the 3/4 view pic of the car you have to understand the leading edge of the Mark VIII fan is in the middle of the GT500 vent. So the first opening of the GT vents is only a few inches away from that. Also it looks like yours may actual be longer than mine as well. Mine has 5 vents per side and it looks like yours are 6 per side.

But with all that being said this was a test hood and when a lighter weight piece goes on I will fine tune the placing of these vents.


My issue with temp is surfacing in low speed situations. Once the car is moving 50+ even with heavy full throttle and 90 degree air temps its hangs out 180-195. Since the radiator is sealed off pretty good I do notice a huge difference at speed. Please keep in mind I do still have the big A a/c condenser sitting up front and I have heard that r-134 conversion kits throw off a ton of heat through those condensers...so I know I could gain something there if needed if it doesn't run cool enough at the track. I'd just like to see if I can keep the A/C if possible.

Frank, Yes, Oil Temp is the next item for me to address. I have not go there yet and part of the reason I am waiting for cool days again before doing the next track day event. Recommendations on Oil-Cooler set-ups?

Thanks again everyone!

Chad
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post #15 of 17 Old 09-14-2015, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast_frank_d View Post
Make sure your fan is coming on at a temp low enough that it's not trying to play catch up. I assume your DCC has an adjustment potentiometer. If so, set it so the fan comes on at 195-200. If it still goes to 210 after turning on at 195, you know you have work to do. In high temp open track driving, temps tend to "creep" with time, so if you can start the session 10 degrees cooler you're better off.



Frank
Sorry, the fan does come on right around 190-195. it was set for a 180 thermo and that's what the car has.
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post #16 of 17 Old 09-14-2015, 03:06 PM
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Interesting, i knew AC's make the cars run warmer but never knew why, didnt really bother to figure out why since my fox doesnt have AC, or heat...and soon no wipers anyways.

Ive read two more things that could help.

1. people never "blow out" their radiators, one guy on here said take an air compressor and blow against the airflow before a track day or once a year to remove any debris that could restrict air flow through the radiator. (i would have never thought of this)

2. Ive also heard sometimes people buy these massive 3 core "Nascar" radiators and they are so thick that they never get enough air flow through them to cool the water, NASCAR stock cars run wide open 120 + mph so they get plenty of air, something to think about when our foxes proababl average 35mph on the street.


I bought a Jegs ford/crystler universal radiator YEARS ago for 160 bucks and never looked back, car stays extremely cool

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post #17 of 17 Old 09-15-2015, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortSportage View Post
Interesting, i knew AC's make the cars run warmer but never knew why, didnt really bother to figure out why since my fox doesnt have AC, or heat...and soon no wipers anyways.

Ive read two more things that could help.

1. people never "blow out" their radiators, one guy on here said take an air compressor and blow against the airflow before a track day or once a year to remove any debris that could restrict air flow through the radiator. (i would have never thought of this)

2. Ive also heard sometimes people buy these massive 3 core "Nascar" radiators and they are so thick that they never get enough air flow through them to cool the water, NASCAR stock cars run wide open 120 + mph so they get plenty of air, something to think about when our foxes proababl average 35mph on the street.


I bought a Jegs ford/crysler universal radiator YEARS ago for 160 bucks and never looked back, car stays extremely cool
so the Condenser adds two problems...one its a "radiator" in-front of the radiator so it limits/hinders(to a point) the direct air hitting the engine radiator...the second problem is it can radiate heat that is then sucked into and through the radiator. that's my understanding of the situation anyway.

Since my radiator is new nothing to blow out. Also while it is "big" it's just a universal fit Griffin that was $175 bucks and thus not some overkill Nascar spec piece. However in all honesty I care more about how it cools at 120mph than at 35. ;-) Since in all reality this is not a daily driver. It's an Open Track day car that spends its time in the mountains and at the track.
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