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post #1 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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OK racers! more questions

ok so i have the basic comp engineering/moroso 10pt cage (mild steel) in my fox now, the front 2 bars are kinda screwed (long story) so i think im just going to cut them out with the halo and run it as an 8 pt (so i can pass an inspection)

i want to add some more braces to the cage to help out with cornering/lateral stiffness

now ive heard for hpde u need a diagnal brace in the main hoop

im thinking of doing another diagnal brace the opisite direction between the rear bars, making an x kind (1 diag in main hoop, 1 diag in rear bars)

im also thining of doing a brace on each side, coming from the door bars down to the subframe connectors behind the seats...

i also did small braces from the rear bars to the shock towers to help stiffen up the shock towers against lateral flex (MM rear coilovers)

any other good braces i should add that would really help in the autox/RR world?


disclaimer....i want to do the least amount of bars/braces that provide the most about of stiffness (due to weight concerns, and practicality)

looking at corner carvers ppl have like 25 pt CAGES! its redic!

ill post some pics soon


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post #2 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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red is main hoop
yellow is rear bars

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post #4 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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or even something like this (i have some extra pipes from the cage)


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post #5 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 02:21 PM
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You should move the A-pillar bars closer to the A-pillars and gusset them into the A-pillars. This is one of the most important mods for chassis rigidity. Also gusseting the halo to the roof (above the windshield and above the doors) helps a bunch. Gusset the main hoop to the B-pillars as well. Anything you can do to tie in the unibody to the cage in this manner will help tremendously with chassis rigidity.

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post #6 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 02:22 PM
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Being a road racer I have a couple of suggestions. I'm sure some others will make some as well.

Refering to your pictures I would place the "red" tube just the opposite as you have drawn it.

You should install a diagonal bar from the main hoop just behind the driver to the bottom of the main hoop on the passenger side. I would cut the horizontal harness bar so that you can use one piece of tubing for this. You don't have to but that's the way I would do it.

Refering to your pictures I would place the yellow tube in the opposite corners and make it reach to each end of the tube.

A diagonal between the two rear main hoop braces is good but attach them at the opposite corners of the two braces near where they attach to the the rest of the cage or footing plates, not in the middle of the tubes. I would run the diagonal from the top of the passenger brace to the bottom of the drivers side brace.

This way both corners of the main hoop are supported by a tube in case of a roll over.

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post #7 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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i figurd doing this instead of the tradional X (wouldnt it be easier to see in the rear view mirrior) having the diags like mentioned above

i still drive the car on the street so,

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post #8 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87Fox5.0 View Post
You should move the A-pillar bars closer to the A-pillars and gusset them into the A-pillars. This is one of the most important mods for chassis rigidity. Also gusseting the halo to the roof (above the windshield and above the doors) helps a bunch. Gusset the main hoop to the B-pillars as well. Anything you can do to tie in the unibody to the cage in this manner will help tremendously with chassis rigidity.
ive noticed this...in the MM race car and others....dont know why i didnt think of this!

just use a piece of sheet metal with holes drilled into it for the gussets?

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post #9 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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ok better?




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post #10 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 03:04 PM
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ok better?




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It's how I would do it and your vision to the rear is not blocked to much. Anytime you add a roll bar/cage your going to reduce your vision to the rear. It's goes with the territory.


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post #11 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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hmmm....my plan is to go for maximum chassis stiffness with the least amount of beams (less weight more effective)


the car is 10000000 times stiffer and feels amazinly solid after the 10pt i can only imagine doing more braces and added gussets to the body, im going to have to get custom front beams made close to the a pillars, so for now ill run the 8 pt and work on adding more beams

god i miss her! cant wait to drive her again

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Last edited by EscortSportage; 12-15-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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post #12 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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post #13 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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more dickin around.... (can u tell im bored?)


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post #14 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortSportage View Post
If you want to keep the number of tubes to a minimum I would remove the two short angles braces that attach to the main hoop on both side that go towards the trans tunnel but don't quite make it. There is not much structure there in a FOX chassis so attaching them there doesn't add anything.

You could add a diagonal brace from the bottom of the horzontal harness bar on the passenger side to the bottom of the main hoop on the drivers side. Think triangles. The cage should be made up of as many triangles as you can make but those two just don't work for me.

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post #15 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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they are already in there, i dont really want to remove any more... we put in a lot of work to do this, now i just want to add a few more, make it a custom cage

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post #16 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by EscortSportage View Post
ive noticed this...in the MM race car and others....dont know why i didnt think of this!

just use a piece of sheet metal with holes drilled into it for the gussets?
I used 1/8" thick metal strips spaced a few inches apart (kind of like a stitch weld). Not as pretty as the sheet metal with holes, but hey this car wasn't built to win any beauty contests.

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post #17 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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pics please!


im thinking weld a piece of sheet metal onto the body to the left and right of the main hoop, and then weld another piece of sheet metal from the tubing to the flat piece on the body,

making a T

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post #18 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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here is what im talking about....(i let some kindergarten kid draw it for me) LMAO


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post #19 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 06:27 PM
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I just welded the 1/8" strip perpendicular to the tubing then perpendicular to the body metal, just like in your picture, but no flat piece underneath.

Sorry got no pics, car's in storage. My '65 Mustang project is hogging up the space in the garage.

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post #20 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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nice, hell yea im trying to get this car to point where its so predictable!

and my atitude is like why not make the chassis stiffer, id love to weld all the seams underneath the car one day as well

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post #21 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Like this?


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post #22 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 07:53 PM
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Uhmm, you kinda lost me there.

Anyway, here's an old pic. Stare at the passenger side A pillar and you can see the two metal strips connecting the A pillar to the A pillar tubing on the cage. The strips are approx 4" x 1 1/2", 1/8" thick. Nothing fancy.


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post #23 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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LMAO, im thinking of making a wing like urs

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post #24 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 10:02 PM
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High speed slaloms at wide open throttle without having to lift. What that there spoiler does for ya.

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post #25 of 37 Old 12-15-2011, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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post #26 of 37 Old 12-16-2011, 08:33 AM
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Are you sure the cage is DOM? I would have expected it to be ERW?
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post #27 of 37 Old 12-16-2011, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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no idea, its NHRA legal (obvisiously that doesnt apply) but i have not got it inspected it, the welds are solid

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post #28 of 37 Old 12-16-2011, 05:22 PM
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Shouldnt the bars in the trunk be welded to somewhere stronger than the floor pan? I usually see them welded to the shock towers...
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post #29 of 37 Old 12-16-2011, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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1 i didnt know the floor pan was flimsy,
2 this is a basic drag racing cage and thats how its designed
3 i later on tied the cage into the shock tower (in pic above)

yea thats all i got, what do u think about running 2 bars from the main hoop back to the hump?in an x fashion

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post #30 of 37 Old 12-16-2011, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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or even better running from main hoop behind where the door bars weld into, and then going into the rear shock towers...

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post #31 of 37 Old 12-16-2011, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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post #32 of 37 Old 12-17-2011, 10:36 PM
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Uh... dont want to sound rude... but you have WAY too many bars going on there lol.

Why not just check out some company offerings and copy them? They put a lot of research into them to make the best product and most effective.

Stop worrying about the back so much, your bars have that all covered already. Just fix the main hoop and your golden.
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post #33 of 37 Old 12-18-2011, 05:38 AM
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Exclamation

Needs to be like this but the rear supports and x-bars should be anchored at the rear shock tower area.
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post #34 of 37 Old 12-18-2011, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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i posted a pic of the small beams i had welded into the shock towers, and we added gussets for ####s.


i figured to brace the rear shock towers since im running rear coilovers, i didnt know the rear shock towers are so beefy

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post #35 of 37 Old 12-22-2011, 11:18 PM
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A couple of thoughts. If you are going to do open track events with NASA or the SCCA you should consult their rules when considering how you are going to modify the cage you have. Both groups have very specific rules regarding how the main hoop is braced and it would suck if you wasted time doing it wrong. Note that both groups place allot of importance on the main hoop because so much of the strength of the cage and its ability to protect the driver starts there.

Another thing that you will see if you read the various rule sets is that cage specs usually list a required minimum design along with a required material spec for these minimum specs. This means that additional braces/tubes/structure can be made of lighter material to save wieght and add stiffness.

Speaking for the SCCA you can download their rules for free from The Sports Car Club of America - Home. The rules are in PDF form and you can search them for cage rules.

I believe you can also get cage specs from NASA on their web site as well.

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