Fun weekend instructing for NASA AZ - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 21 Old 11-07-2011, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
MFE
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Fun weekend instructing for NASA AZ

I had a great student in a 2011 STI. Great attitude, constant improvement, totally understood the mistakes he was making (look further ahead, turn in later, apply throttle later, bzzt rewind repeat), but I'll tell ya what, these kids these days have NO idea how good they have it with ABS and Hand-of-God Stability control. He got all out of shape one time, then fixed it. I asked him, was that you, or was that the stability control? "Stability control". "Lucky".

That said, here I am on day 2 working my ass off to catch him after he's only been on track for 6 20-minute sessions. This was his 2nd solo session.




- '92 5-sp LX coupe, TKO, 3.55s, pulleys, Al DS, 1-5/8 shorties, Magnaflow spun metallic cats, 2.5 Dynomax VT's, Pro5.0 w/ Steeda Comfort Pro
- GT40Y's, E cam, Cobra intake, tmoss ported lower, FRPP 65mm TB, BBK 75mm MAF, 155 lph pump, FRPP oil cooler, Al rad, 130amp alt, Energy mounts
- Autopower 4-point bar, 5-pt harnesses, MM weld-in subs and STB
- MM K-member/A-arms/Coilovers, 425# springs, MM cc plates, Koni Yellow DA's
- MM adj rear LCA's/torque arm/panhard bar, 500# rear springs, Eibach swaybar, Koni Yellow SA's
- SN95 Cobra brakes, FR500 17x9 wheels, Raybestos ST47 pads
- 3400 lbs with me and 1/2 tank of gas
- Regional autocross champ 99-02, 10,100 miles on 17 tracks
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post #2 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 08:11 AM
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Yeah some of these cars are soooo good that a beginning driver never does learn how to drive,in fact they get worse with the car doing all of the work and saving their asses. The last one that I had was a beginner with a GTR and he would get near an apex and just mat the gas and let the electronics sort everything out. Amazing car no doubt but the student only learned that he could be an idiot and almost reckless and still get around a track.


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post #3 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 09:25 AM
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I'm glad i'm not the only one that has been humbled by newbies in "driven by an electronic Stig" vehicle.

I took a ride in my Chiroprators couple years old Masarati Grand Sport. While i've been in cars that handled as good or slightly better, the minimal effort he put towards driving the vehicle at 9/10th's was incredible.

I asked him, "What is this XXX button on the center console?" He said, "You NEEEVER want to turn that OFF." It basically makes the car undriveable/uncontrollable." I did some LOL'ing after that. He eventually turned the button off and he looked like every Mustang/Vette/random RWD high powered V8 driver i've seen....and was going MUUCH slower. He was like, "See, I told you it was stupid to turn that off!".

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post #4 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 01:55 PM
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I think that's why I chose a Fox, instead of a newer SN car with ABS. I want to LEARN how to drive, how to modulate brakes, and smooth steering input - without any "hand holding".

Does that make me the odd man out?

Justin
FYI: Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left!
SOLD - 91LX Couper track bitch
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 04:11 PM
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I think that's why I chose a Fox, instead of a newer SN car with ABS. I want to LEARN how to drive, how to modulate brakes, and smooth steering input - without any "hand holding".

Does that make me the odd man out?
Most experienced drivers prefer less interference. I have always heard that a really good driver can stop shorter w/o ABS.That may be so but I think I'll keep my ABS. All that other stuff you can keep.

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post #6 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 05:23 PM
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I think that statement is, for the most part....true. But i'll be damn if technology isn't out to disprove that in tidal wave fashion.

I forget, when was SkyNet supposed to take over? Where's Sarah Conner when you need her!?
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post #7 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 07:58 PM
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Some of the events I instruct at are populated by students with very good late model cars ... yes, many of them never even realize how awesome their car is, and how much easier they have it.

Will be interesting for me to get out in my very basic Fox next year, the closest to that I've driven for any length of time on track is my friend's 07 GT, which is obviously a much more capable car. My RWD skills are going to need some brushing up after doing two seasons in the old crapper SHO ... but at least my left-foot braking technique is improved, I've been doing lots of that to get the Taurus to rotate!


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former original owner -- 87 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback
07 Mustang GT with some stuff
88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
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post #8 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 10:19 PM
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I had my first real time out on track this weekend... In a Miata with no ABS or power steering. I'm 20. Do I pass the "Grr back in my day we had to walk uphill both ways grumble grumble" test of learning how to drive? :P Never had an instructor in my car to hold my hand or give me pointers either...


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post #9 of 21 Old 11-08-2011, 11:18 PM
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I'd take ABS in a second, RF tires aren't cheap and I've flat spotted several of them finding (and unfortunately, exceeding) the "threshold" while braking. I've considered doing the ABS swap from an early SN95 car but haven't convinced myself it's worth it.

As for the rest of the electro-nannies (and I mostly mean the newer AWD systems that allow you to feed all the throttle you want and give you exactly the amount you need to each wheel), I don't feel they're condusive to being a better driver. Sure the drivers of those cars can become ridiculously fast, but I'd be willing to bet that if you took a guy in an EVO who's fast and started in that car and a guy in a Mustang who's fast and started in that car, the Mustang guy would adapt to the EVO much easier than the EVO guy to the Mustang.

Of course, since very few, if any of us here will ever become pros, that really doesn't matter.

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post #10 of 21 Old 11-09-2011, 02:37 PM
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I prefer the Fox and its somewhat "raw" natural form over the more refined machines. But, I have to admit ABS is something I'm going to add to the Fox (I have all of the stuff - just no time). This from too many times overbraking the Cobra and the ABS saving my bacon, especially in incliment weather.

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post #11 of 21 Old 11-09-2011, 03:12 PM
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Try running FWD in the rain with non-functioning ABS ... lock a front wheel, engine wants to stall ... D'OH!


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Ed N.

former original owner -- 87 Mustang LX 5.0 hatchback
07 Mustang GT with some stuff
88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
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post #12 of 21 Old 11-09-2011, 06:06 PM
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With all this discussion, I am starting to think that even the fairmont chassis is too modern... Where can I find me a Model-T to track so that I can truly sharpen my skillz?

2012 Race Red GT
1998 Black GT (Open Track car) - TF 44cc Heads/Aviator SB, HP cams, BBK shorties, Delta Force tuning, MM Panhard LCA FCA Full subs CC plates coilovers, Koni Yellows, drop spindles, Brembo/Cobra brakes, 3.73 gears, truetrac diff
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post #13 of 21 Old 11-09-2011, 06:25 PM
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With all this discussion, I am starting to think that even the fairmont chassis is too modern... Where can I find me a Model-T to track so that I can truly sharpen my skillz?
"Tell us about those track days that were all up hill and off camber both ways again, Grandpa!"

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post #14 of 21 Old 11-10-2011, 05:22 PM
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I thoroughly enjoy tracking my 66. No traction control or ABS, no power steering, no power brakes, discs up front and drums out back. Fanciest thing in the car is a MSD 6AL box. I still have a long way to go before I reach competent!

-Mark-
1966 Mustang 2+2
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post #15 of 21 Old 11-10-2011, 05:50 PM
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Pretty cool when the most technological thing on the car is............your cell phone.
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post #16 of 21 Old 11-11-2011, 04:21 AM
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Pretty cool when the most technological thing on the car is............your cell phone.
Then your ipod

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post #17 of 21 Old 11-11-2011, 11:48 AM
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I've always loved watching these MFE videos of him keeping up with or passing drivers with far better hardware.

But yeah I agree that some people just don't know how good they have it. I'm no rockstar driver but I regularly see people take bad lines in autocross, only to be able to just stomp on it and let the AWD and electronic controls sort the rest out. Seems to take some of the challenge out. At least the drivers also pay entry fees so we all get to play

That said, the technology IS impressive and I wouldn't mind having ABS in my fox body. My front right tire always hates me from flat spotting it so much.

1989 Mustang GT: 5.0, 5spd --- Sold. SVO brakes, MM suspension bits, 331ci, X pipe.

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post #18 of 21 Old 11-14-2011, 08:10 AM
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I had a student this past weekend with a 2011 M3 and yes it's an impressive car but when he put the Nanny setting on it least intrusive setting but not completely off it was a whole lot different. He then had to start listening and start learning how to drive. In 3 weeks I will have him again and I'm gonna suggest that we take off the training wheels.

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post #19 of 21 Old 11-16-2011, 09:34 AM
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Dang, I've love to MFE as an instructor! (and I could use the instructing.)

Also, why is there a black dot over the sun in the video? Is that something the camera does automagically?
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post #20 of 21 Old 11-16-2011, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, the camera can't handle the brightness
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post #21 of 21 Old 11-17-2011, 09:27 PM
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Yes, the camera can't handle the brightness
My original go-pro did the same thing.

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