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post #1 of 23 Old 11-07-2011, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Autocross Aero

Sooo, I've been thinking about wings. Ones that actually produce downforce.

Some are like actually wings and some are spoilers.

Which one is better? I mean, you see top level autocrossers with both. I'm sure the spoiler is easier/cheaper to build. Does anyone use one of either?

My thought is that it would allow me to free up the car for slower, tighter courses, but would keep the car in line on high speed airport type courses.

Any links or education you can provide would be great, thanks!

(Autocross Application ONLY)


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post #2 of 23 Old 11-08-2011, 06:42 PM
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Are you shooting for a specific class? That would make the difference for what you can use....


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post #3 of 23 Old 11-08-2011, 07:16 PM
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In CP spoilers up to 10" size are permitted. Other classes e.g. SM and SSM allow for wings. Check the rule book for specifics.

Used to think spoilers were un-necessary due to the fairly low speeds in autocross, but boy was I wrong. HUGE improvement in rear end stability especially during high speed slaloms. Considering the rear of a Fox gutted for autoX is very light, even small amounts of downforce e.g. 50-100 lbs makes a noticable difference in rear stability and grip.

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post #4 of 23 Old 11-09-2011, 02:04 PM
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I've wondered how these tall spoilers effect handling versus acceleration. Seems like it would be a trade off.

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post #5 of 23 Old 11-10-2011, 01:16 PM
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Most Mustangs already have more power than they can apply, so it won't matter there.

But even on underpowered cars, we spend so much time in turns that any improvement in corner speed trumps any minor acceleration loss.

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post #6 of 23 Old 11-11-2011, 08:44 PM
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Soooooo am I interpreting this correct in the Street Prepared Rules? I can add a 10" tall spoiler on the back of an ESP Mustang?

2. A spoiler may be added to the rear of the car provided it complies
with either of the following:
a) It is a production rear spoiler which is standard or optional
equipment of a U.S. model of the vehicle, or an exact replica in
an alternate material.
b) It is a non-production rear spoiler which is mounted to the rearmost
portion of the rear hatch, deck, or trunk lid. The spoiler
may extend no more than 10 inches from the original bodywork
in any direction. Alternatively, in a hatchback, the spoiler may
be mounted to the rear hatch lid at or near the top of the hatch;
in such a configuration the spoiler may extend no more than 4
inches from the original bodywork in any direction. The spoiler
may be no wider than the bodywork, and it shall not protrude
beyond the overall perimeter of the bodywork as viewed from
above. The use of endplates is prohibited. Angle of attack is
free. The spoiler may not function as a wing.

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post #7 of 23 Old 11-11-2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
Soooooo am I interpreting this correct in the Street Prepared Rules? I can add a 10" tall spoiler on the back of an ESP Mustang?

2. A spoiler may be added to the rear of the car provided it complies
with either of the following:
a) It is a production rear spoiler which is standard or optional
equipment of a U.S. model of the vehicle, or an exact replica in
an alternate material.
b) It is a non-production rear spoiler which is mounted to the rearmost
portion of the rear hatch, deck, or trunk lid. The spoiler
may extend no more than 10 inches from the original bodywork
in any direction. Alternatively, in a hatchback, the spoiler may
be mounted to the rear hatch lid at or near the top of the hatch;
in such a configuration the spoiler may extend no more than 4
inches from the original bodywork in any direction. The spoiler
may be no wider than the bodywork, and it shall not protrude
beyond the overall perimeter of the bodywork as viewed from
above. The use of endplates is prohibited. Angle of attack is
free. The spoiler may not function as a wing.
That is correct.

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post #8 of 23 Old 11-13-2011, 02:26 AM
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yes I've seen rather large spoilers on the back of ESP mustangs....

this is how I would like my ESP stang to kinda look, minus splitter and cobra front, with a larger spoiler
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post #9 of 23 Old 11-14-2011, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys,

Looks like we've got a nice conversation going on here. So is a wing going to be 'better' than a spoiler? I'm guessing so since SM allows, but SP does not.

I have a friend and we are looking at doing a dual layer fiberglass wing like you see on lots of SM cars. We are looking at making the end plats in a way that I could remove one of the elements for track days and reinstall it for autocrosses.

From a set up perspective, at what approximate speed do these wings start working? I am assuming it adds higher speed understeer.

Thanks to you guys that have done more research on this than I have...

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post #10 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87Fox5.0 View Post
In CP spoilers up to 10" size are permitted. Other classes e.g. SM and SSM allow for wings. Check the rule book for specifics.

Used to think spoilers were un-necessary due to the fairly low speeds in autocross, but boy was I wrong. HUGE improvement in rear end stability especially during high speed slaloms. Considering the rear of a Fox gutted for autoX is very light, even small amounts of downforce e.g. 50-100 lbs makes a noticable difference in rear stability and grip.
Do you have any pix of how your spoiler is attached? Still thinking about how I can do a spoiler and not mess my paint up too bad.

Off topic, but how wide are your real wheels and what size tire? Thinking of maybe doing that this winter too.

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post #11 of 23 Old 11-18-2011, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88TbirdMan View Post
Do you have any pix of how your spoiler is attached? Still thinking about how I can do a spoiler and not mess my paint up too bad.

Off topic, but how wide are your real wheels and what size tire? Thinking of maybe doing that this winter too.
Dude, it's a CP car, forget the paint!

No pics, car is in storage right now. It was basically a hack job to see if it makes a difference (it does), but basically a piece of aluminum sheet held in place by door hinges from ACE Hardware, with Longacre spoiler support rods to control the angle:



If/when I get motivated I'll put together something prettier.

Rims are 16x11's with 11.5 x 23.5 x 16 slicks. Also have used the 25 x 13 x 16 on these rims but tell your tire guy he'll need 3 men to help mount them.

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post #12 of 23 Old 11-21-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87Fox5.0 View Post
Dude, it's a CP car, forget the paint!

No pics, car is in storage right now. It was basically a hack job to see if it makes a difference (it does), but basically a piece of aluminum sheet held in place by door hinges from ACE Hardware, with Longacre spoiler support rods to control the angle:



If/when I get motivated I'll put together something prettier.

Rims are 16x11's with 11.5 x 23.5 x 16 slicks. Also have used the 25 x 13 x 16 on these rims but tell your tire guy he'll need 3 men to help mount them.
Nice! I had the exact same question for you, but didn't get around to ask.

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post #13 of 23 Old 11-22-2011, 06:58 PM
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sorry, but the paint is going to stay nice. If I didn't care about it, I wouldn't have painted it the way I did. And it certainly will NEVER look like a traditional CP car like its been attacked with a sawzall
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-22-2011, 10:28 PM
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haha def not a normal CP car, well hell of a looker I must say.

I am also planning on going obnoxious spoiler on my ESP mustang in the future.... bet i'll get some looks driving this down the road
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post #15 of 23 Old 12-30-2011, 07:07 PM
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started making my spoiler this week. I ended up using 1/4" lexan so that I could see through it for backing up. Especially since I occasionally drive the car on the street still. I still have to paint the hinges black and get another spoiler support since one broke before I even got it on the car for mockup. The left hand thread galled and barely took any force to break it so be warned.




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post #16 of 23 Old 12-31-2011, 11:10 PM
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That looks awesome!

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post #17 of 23 Old 01-04-2012, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 88TbirdMan View Post
started making my spoiler this week. I ended up using 1/4" lexan so that I could see through it for backing up. Especially since I occasionally drive the car on the street still. I still have to paint the hinges black and get another spoiler support since one broke before I even got it on the car for mockup. The left hand thread galled and barely took any force to break it so be warned.





That's freakin sweet man! I've really been contemplating making my own spoiler but dont really have the fabrication skills to do so. Did you have the Lexan cut to size or did you cut it yourself? If you did it yourself, was it very difficult?

Also, would any other material be suffice or is Lexan recommended? I was thinking standard plexi-glass, maybe?

What hinges did you use and where can they be purchased?

Are the rods those Longacre ones as 87Fox5.0 pictured?

How big/tall is the spoiler and how do you knwo what angle to set it at?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is a very interesting project that I really want to tackle
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-04-2012, 08:51 PM
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Lexan is way better than Plexiglas. Plexiglas is brittle and will break. Lexan can actually be bent on a sheet metal brake.

I am thinking of making one that will slip over the stock spoiler on my 99 so I can remove it for street driving.

I saw one at last months event that was held on with velcro and it actually stayed put. Don't remember what kind of car it was on though.

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post #19 of 23 Old 01-04-2012, 09:55 PM
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That's freakin sweet man! I've really been contemplating making my own spoiler but dont really have the fabrication skills to do so. Did you have the Lexan cut to size or did you cut it yourself? If you did it yourself, was it very difficult?

Also, would any other material be suffice or is Lexan recommended? I was thinking standard plexi-glass, maybe?

What hinges did you use and where can they be purchased?

Are the rods those Longacre ones as 87Fox5.0 pictured?

How big/tall is the spoiler and how do you knwo what angle to set it at?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is a very interesting project that I really want to tackle
Finally got this spoiler completely done. I'm having a lack of motivation this year :shrug: But I think this spoiler turned out pretty sweet!





I think I have the spoiler at about a 70* angle and hopefully will make some downforce :thumbsup:


I bought the lexan in a 12" x 96" piece for $79 from a plastic supply warehouse in toledo ohio. They were the cheapest place I could find locally. I was quoted $105 for regular plexiglass at my local hardware store and they had it in stock too, but as said before, it will deteriorate and break. Lexan is supposed to be UV protected and its much stronger.

The hinges I cut to size off a strip of aluminum hinge we use at work for meter boxes on propane delivery trucks. Its about 2" across with about a 1/4" rod through it.


I did use the 8" longacre spoiler supports. They are supposed to extend to 10 1/2". I think I have them about halfway.

The spoiler is about 9 7/8" tall because its away from the trunk lid slightly and am allowed 10" to class rules. I doubt anybody will say anything about the very slight wrap around the corner thats about 11-11.5". It can't really pick up any air where its at anyway. I figure its angled about 70*, but not certain because I just kind of looked at it and guessed, lol.
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-05-2012, 12:44 AM
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Thanks for the info! That thing looks sweet and I'm going to try and get to this project hopefully this year lol! So how did you cut the lexan? Or did you have it cut somewhere?


Han Solo...how would you make one of these "slip over?" I'm curious because I have a s281 spoiler on my 98 cobra and if I can keep it intact and just "slip" added aero onto it that'd be awesome! Do you have any pictures of how that would look/work?
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-05-2012, 01:09 AM
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"They" say that about 60 degrees is the optimal angle to maximize downforce and minimize drag. YMMV. I usually run around 55 deg but play around with it depending on the course.

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post #22 of 23 Old 01-05-2012, 01:15 AM
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I cut it to shape with a jigsaw with a really course toothed blade so it wouldn't heat up and melt. Cuts really easy that way. The top edge was the sawed edge from being cut at the place I got it, looked like a circular saw of some kind possibly.
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post #23 of 23 Old 01-06-2012, 03:06 PM
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The Tbird spoiler looks GREAT!


Quote:
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Han Solo...how would you make one of these "slip over?" I'm curious because I have a s281 spoiler on my 98 cobra and if I can keep it intact and just "slip" added aero onto it that'd be awesome! Do you have any pictures of how that would look/work?
Nah, I was just thinking out loud. If I get around to trying it and get something to work I'll dig this thread back up and add it.

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