MM Forward Offset vs. Standard Offset control arms? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 23 Old 11-01-2011, 03:54 AM Thread Starter
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MM Forward Offset vs. Standard Offset control arms?

MM has their deal of the day on front control arms but I'm not sure which ones to order. What are the benefits of having the forward offset control arms compared to standard offset?

The car is a 98 cobra that is occassionally street driven but I want the best performance for open tracking. Please let me know your guys' opinions..I've got 24 hrs! Thanks!

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post #2 of 23 Old 11-01-2011, 05:28 AM
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When I did my k-member, I said "why not" for the forward offset. Also went with the Delrin busings. I DD'd the car like that until my son was born 3.5 years ago. I think I remember Jack Hidley posting somewhere that the forward offset arms and setting the motor back an inch is worth .5% in the front to rear weight distribution.


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post #3 of 23 Old 11-01-2011, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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I'm assuming the car you have this setup on is the 93 foxbody in your sig? Does anyone with an sn95 have the forward offset control arms with MM Kmember? What kind of clearance issues did you encounter?
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post #4 of 23 Old 11-01-2011, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
I'm assuming the car you have this setup on is the 93 foxbody in your sig? Does anyone with an sn95 have the forward offset control arms with MM Kmember? What kind of clearance issues did you encounter?
I've spoken with Jack today about this. He told me that it's stupidly easy to get the bodywork to clear on an SN95 with the offset arms. I'm inclined to believe him just because the wheel wells are HUGE on an SN95 when compared to a foxbody.

I've seen a 99 Cobra and a 02 GT with the "zero" offset arms on the MM k-member. Both could have easily run the 0.75" forward offset arms (for 1.5" total wheel movement).

I believe the main issue stems from a "full lock" condition when steering. If you run a stupidly huge tire, it can contact the edge of the front bumper/fender. Other than that, you're good.

Jack also said for me to use the delrin as I plan on getting into HDPEs in the next year and half. He said that the delrin will hold up better than the urethane in those conditions. I do know a guy locally that runs urethane in his car. He autoxs the crap out of the thing and I don't think I've heard of him having problems out of it.

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post #5 of 23 Old 11-02-2011, 02:00 PM
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+2

Delrin + Forward offset = Love

I also added the longer X2 balljoints since I could not do the MM k member (At the advice of some AI racers). All together made a great improvement on steering feel. The added front grip was more noticeable with this than going from the huge Steeda front sway bar down to a stock GT bar.

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post #6 of 23 Old 11-02-2011, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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+2

Delrin + Forward offset = Love

I also added the longer X2 balljoints since I could not do the MM k member (At the advice of some AI racers). All together made a great improvement on steering feel. The added front grip was more noticeable with this than going from the huge Steeda front sway bar down to a stock GT bar.
So you have the forward offset control arms with the stock K-member still? Did you run into any issues with the sway bar or anything else? I spoke to Jason at MM yesterday and he mentioned that MM never designed the forward offset control arms to be used with the stock K. He said that MM never "intended" to move the wheel base by only 3/4", which apparently causes some issues (not sure what issues though). He said that it's recommneded to run non-offset control arms with the stock K-member and forward offset control arms with the MM K-member...

But if you are running the forward offset control arms with the stock K-member with no issues, I may go ahead and install mine now! I as going to wait to install them when I got the K-member, but that may not be for a while.
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post #7 of 23 Old 11-02-2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sydewaysix View Post
So you have the forward offset control arms with the stock K-member still? Did you run into any issues with the sway bar or anything else? I spoke to Jason at MM yesterday and he mentioned that MM never designed the forward offset control arms to be used with the stock K. He said that MM never "intended" to move the wheel base by only 3/4", which apparently causes some issues (not sure what issues though). He said that it's recommneded to run non-offset control arms with the stock K-member and forward offset control arms with the MM K-member...

But if you are running the forward offset control arms with the stock K-member with no issues, I may go ahead and install mine now! I as going to wait to install them when I got the K-member, but that may not be for a while.
The problem would be if you run fwd offset control arms with a stock K member you'll have some insane Ackerman settings unless you fabricate some forward offset bushings for the steering rack.

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post #8 of 23 Old 11-03-2011, 01:41 PM
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Remember who you're talking to when you call a vendor... You know, they really want to SELL you that K member... just saying.

The recommendation came from a couple racers who were disappointed in the minimal to gain from the K-member, after first trying the Forward Offset arms + X2 balljoints. Like you, I was already holding the arms, so I gave them a try based on my research. I'm thrilled with the results, and now have better places to spend the k member $. No issues with the install... See MM's online instructions for installing with stock k member.

Insane Ackerman? Hardly. It's only a 3/4" increase! That's LESS than 1% increase in wheelbase!! Remember Ackerman is measured from the center of the Rear axle... The car turns GREAT on the track. Maybe it could potentially be more of a problem for those SILLY cone dodging types, where tight turns are the norm. But on REAL tracks, it isn't an issue AT ALL.

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post #9 of 23 Old 11-03-2011, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Remember who you're talking to when you call a vendor... You know, they really want to SELL you that K member... just saying.

The recommendation came from a couple racers who were disappointed in the minimal to gain from the K-member, after first trying the Forward Offset arms + X2 balljoints. Like you, I was already holding the arms, so I gave them a try based on my research. I'm thrilled with the results, and now have better places to spend the k member $. No issues with the install... See MM's online instructions for installing with stock k member.

Insane Ackerman? Hardly. It's only a 3/4" increase! That's LESS than 1% increase in wheelbase!! Remember Ackerman is measured from the center of the Rear axle... The car turns GREAT on the track. Maybe it could potentially be more of a problem for those SILLY cone dodging types, where tight turns are the norm. But on REAL tracks, it isn't an issue AT ALL.
Good to know, thanks! Would I need the X2 balljoints or do you think the OE Ford balljoints that MM installs on the arms will be fine? Did you install the swaybar relocation kit from MM or did you retain the stock configuration?
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post #10 of 23 Old 11-03-2011, 03:24 PM
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Insane Ackerman? Hardly. It's only a 3/4" increase! That's LESS than 1% increase in wheelbase!! Remember Ackerman is measured from the center of the Rear axle... The car turns GREAT on the track. Maybe it could potentially be more of a problem for those SILLY cone dodging types, where tight turns are the norm. But on REAL tracks, it isn't an issue AT ALL.
Greeat ADvice!!


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post #11 of 23 Old 11-03-2011, 10:28 PM
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I really liked the improved ackerman, caster, and weight distribution when I put the offset arms on my 92. Delrin bushed, SN95 length, X2 balljoints. Have them on my 95 now, and they're not even close to having any clearance issues with the stock K-member.

Justin
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post #12 of 23 Old 11-03-2011, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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I really liked the improved ackerman, caster, and weight distribution when I put the offset arms on my 92. Delrin bushed, SN95 length, X2 balljoints. Have them on my 95 now, and they're not even close to having any clearance issues with the stock K-member.

Justin
On your 95, do you have any issues with the swaybar and/or steering rack?
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-04-2011, 07:49 AM
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On your 95, do you have any issues with the swaybar and/or steering rack?
No issues with either one.
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-04-2011, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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No issues with either one.
Are the X2 balljoints necessary, or would I be ok with the stock balljoints that MM puts on the control arms? What do they X2's do in comparison to stock ones?
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-04-2011, 10:26 AM
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Talk to Joe at Custom Alignment in Mt View. He sells and installs MM parts and may sell just the parts if you want to install it yourself.

We'll be at Laguna on the Friday after Thanksgiving. I need to check but I might be able to get you a ride in a full MM SN95. You will need to bring a helmet.
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post #16 of 23 Old 11-04-2011, 10:39 AM
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Are the X2 balljoints necessary, or would I be ok with the stock balljoints that MM puts on the control arms? What do they X2's do in comparison to stock ones?
I don't think they are entirely necessary, but you might as well while you're in there! Need to make sure you watch for bumpsteer... You want to keep the tie rod parallel with the lca.

I've used 2 normal SN95 sway bars with this setup. A stock GT bar, and the big Steeda bar. No problems with either. No relocation kit used.

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post #17 of 23 Old 11-04-2011, 10:57 AM
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Are the X2 balljoints necessary, or would I be ok with the stock balljoints that MM puts on the control arms? What do they X2's do in comparison to stock ones?
Not at all really, they just help the roll center slightly- allowing you to run maybe 1/2" lower for the same roll center. The K-member would be much better, and it wouldn't pain you so much to press out perfectly good ball joints. I just did it due to the SM autocross class rules. Then I got PO'd at the next major rule revision (would have had to add ballast!) and went to CP.
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-04-2011, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Talk to Joe at Custom Alignment in Mt View. He sells and installs MM parts and may sell just the parts if you want to install it yourself.

We'll be at Laguna on the Friday after Thanksgiving. I need to check but I might be able to get you a ride in a full MM SN95. You will need to bring a helmet.
Steve...I'll give Joe a call later today. I was hoping to go to them for my final alignment once all my parts are installed, but I may as well see what he says about my setup and future plans.

I'd love to join you guys at Laguna...I actually wanted to sign up myself, but I dont think I can make it out. The wife has made "plans" already But if anythign changes, I'll shoot you a message
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post #19 of 23 Old 12-05-2011, 11:42 PM
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i wanted to do the MM forward offset arms, but i already own the MM fox a arms, and its like another 400 on arms, ughh i just want to finish the car up! mm k member with standard a arms moves wheels 3/4 of an inch up which translates to a 1% increase in better balance/weight ratio so im guessing another 3/4 of an inch would be a 2% increase, plus on a fox ud have lots of modification to fit 275 tires, plus i think u will have to buy the swaybar relocation kit, which i just bought the re-inforcement kit for the stock mounting location of the swaybar, again more money.... and the forward offset, so for now im sticking with standard a arms,

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post #20 of 23 Old 12-06-2011, 06:09 AM
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The fender modding is minimal. My car has 275s all around on 03 Cobras and forward offset arms. Just put it together then flog it on the track!

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post #21 of 23 Old 12-16-2011, 07:47 AM
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Wouldnt u have to get the front seaybar relocation kit when using forward iffset a arms?

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post #22 of 23 Old 12-16-2011, 04:23 PM
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Yup. Dew eeet

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post #23 of 23 Old 12-26-2011, 01:21 PM
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I ALSO WENT WITH MM FORWARD 94 STYLE(ON MY 89 TO PUSH WHEELS OUT), WITH THEIR K MEMBER RELOCATION SWAYBAR AND MM SWAYBAR, I ORDERED MAIRE RACING FENDERS (TURNED OUT TO BE ####TY MOLD FOR THE PRICE).

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