ESP questions, Cobra R, Rear Suspension - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 22 Old 10-24-2011, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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ESP questions, Cobra R, Rear Suspension

So since i'm very new to the whole SCCA rule book and all of these fun things related to autocross classing questions, I am trying to get some things cleared up for me.

Did the 2000 Cobra R trunk interior come gutted/naked?
I saw a picture of #2 of 300 forsale with nothing in the trunk except a spare? If this is true to be naked then I guess i'll probably run a naked trunk in my ESP mustang

Dare I ask the next....

Steeda 5 link or just watts link or Panhard for ESP?
I know everyone has their opinions on the good ole T/A + Panhard Bar or the 5 link or IRS or Watts link, but given rules of SCCA Autox the T/A is illegal for ESP and makes the car CP from my understandings.

With this is mind what would be the best rear suspension setup for a 02 Mustang trying to run ESP. From what i've read other than the whole having to change the exhaust it sounds like the 5 Link (most expensive) would probably be the best bet. they recommend aftermarket LCA, but within rules you have to run Stock. Would this still work well or would I have to push out the old bushings for some stocker poly replacements?

Which Block/Head combo best fits the 00 Cobra R stock?
Since the dream idea for ESP is to make a 5.4 DOHC replica of the R, is the navigator block a good start, and what about the heads? are they the closest from what i've read the GT500 heads are very close, but i'm worried if they have been improved upon over the 00R in a way which would make them not be legal

thanks ahead of time for any help on my crazy questions

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post #2 of 22 Old 10-24-2011, 02:06 PM
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2000 'R has an IRS, so you won't need to worry about a torque arm, panhard bar or the Steed 5link.


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post #3 of 22 Old 10-24-2011, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I'm aware of that, but I don't have to or particularly want to run a irs unless its so much better than all of the other options, I'm not trying to make a cobra r clone just use the benifits of it through up/backdate ruling is street prepared

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post #4 of 22 Old 10-24-2011, 07:39 PM
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You can add a PHB in ESP. Then run a PM3L with the stock arms. Bushing material is unlimited so long as not all metal. So, on D/S upper run foam bushings; on P/S run standard rubber bushings. The P/S bushings won't last long but the results are pretty amazing. I ultimately went with a rod-ended P/S upper on the theory that it is no different than the EvO tri-link. But then the car is not a serious ESP player, and I run novice anyway (I'm a fun-runner) so I'm not challenged.

Last edited by qtrracer; 10-24-2011 at 07:45 PM. Reason: added stuff
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post #5 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 08:16 AM
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I'm in a similar position, but supercharged and in Street Mod. I've got a MM PHB, LCAs (I didn't realize you couldn't use aftermarket arms in ESP...I thought you could do LCAs). I've also got MM coilovers/Bilstein HDs (underdampened) at all 4 corners, MM front LCAs, bumpsteered and 3* negative camber.

With that being said, from what I've looked at, it looks like the Steeda 5 link is the best option for ESP/SM. Wish I wasn't already $600 into MM stuff. At some point, I may either make the switch or build a PM3L.

My car understeers pretty badly as is so my biggest opportunities are to pick up more front grip (drop spindles and 3.5* neg camber and the ability to put more power down (Torsen diff).

I've thought about adding and IRS, but the weight and the overall erratic behavior just scares me away from sinking $1500 in something that might not be any quicker.

As for the gutted trunk, I think it is okay from what I've read, but I've never been a part of a protest...

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post #6 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 08:44 AM
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Does Griggs no longer make the floorpan mount TA model? Yes, it's not as good as crossmember mount, but better than nothing. Are you allowed to locally reinforce the floor pan in ESP?
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post #7 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
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Does Griggs no longer make the floorpan mount TA model? Yes, it's not as good as crossmember mount, but better than nothing. Are you allowed to locally reinforce the floor pan in ESP?
Good point. I've heard that Griggs is bankrupt, but haven't really followed up. I've never actually seen how these mount to the floorpan, does anyone know where there are pictures.

Yes, it would be allowed in ESP. I've talked to the SCCA about all this...

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post #8 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
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Good point. I've heard that Griggs is bankrupt, but haven't really followed up. I've never actually seen how these mount to the floorpan, does anyone know where there are pictures.

Yes, it would be allowed in ESP. I've talked to the SCCA about all this...
I believe the TA is legal for ESP, you just can't connect the front mount to the SFC's.

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post #9 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 12:13 PM
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I think the car to have for ESP now is a 2012 Boss, or 1989 Firebird...

Anyway, the 5 link works extremely well. Marcus Merideth's 95 Cobra R clone has one. I don't remember what he did for bushings in the LCA's.

I am not very familiar with the 2000R but when you update/backdate, you have to take the engine as a whole unit and you can't pick/choose parts. So, if you are going to recreate one from other parts, the final product has to be 100% indistinguishable from the original to be 100% legal. On the 95 R clones, they had a lot of trouble sourcing the cams, IIRC, becuase it was a marine piece.

HTH,

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post #10 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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I very briefly was able to ask merideth about springs @ the detroit season ender auto x, but as far as rear suspension we didn't talk too much.

The 2012 Boss is def the car to have, at the last event I was able to get a better time than marcus, but his wife was able to shoot me down from all warm and fuzzy feelings

Can anyone give me some more details on the PM3L? I am thinking steeda 5 link is the way to go, but this is interesting.

As for the Cobra R replica motor, from what i've read you have to try to make a 100% replica, but if the parts are no longer in production (I believe) you can find one's as close to factory, without any extra gain (possibly a little less) and it would be ok (so I thought)

So the 5.4 is an easy one just run a Navigator or F series block, the internals just try to get closest Cam Spec and Compression ration and so on, intake manifold can be after market so no $5k intake for an 00R, Longtubes and other aftermarkets ok... So essentially don't I just need to come up with a 5.4 Block /w same sized design heads and same cam specs? the rest is essentially interchangeable because of the mods? OR AM I WAY OFF ON THIS

If so a 351W would be easier to replicate, especially since I've read you can use a 303 cam with it (and cheaper)

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post #11 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpspeed View Post
I'm in a similar position, but supercharged and in Street Mod. I've got a MM PHB, LCAs (I didn't realize you couldn't use aftermarket arms in ESP...I thought you could do LCAs).
From what i've thought I had read was that you can't change the control arms? just uppers, which in a quadra bind doesnt help
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post #12 of 22 Old 10-26-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
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From what i've thought I had read was that you can't change the control arms? just uppers, which in a quadra bind doesnt help
I just looked up the rules and it does say lowers remain stock, but you can do bushings. Bummer. In street mod, it's 'must retain stock location' but everything else is 'free'

Section 15.8.I (pg 97)

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post #13 of 22 Old 10-28-2011, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Yea thought so, I'm trying to stay esp because better pax and attempt to battle some people, but SM might be more interesting in the long run

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post #14 of 22 Old 11-02-2011, 11:14 PM
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The thing I find interesting is that CP has a better pax than SM. I got tired of battling evo's for 3 years so I went to CP and virtually no one showed all season in SM, lol.
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post #15 of 22 Old 11-03-2011, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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bahaha, yea only people that showed in SM this year was like that mustang with the vortech 3 times, the evos maybe 3 times, the is300 like 4 times, kind of an off class this year...

Well looking at pulling the trigger in the next month or so... Steeda 5 link (original) and their upgraded recommended front and rear springs probably all at once.. Yes it expensive and yes it should be amazing compared to my stock setup with R compounds
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post #16 of 22 Old 11-03-2011, 05:34 PM
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I think last year the SM record at fostoria got reset by an evo 10 that was just untouchable
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post #17 of 22 Old 11-04-2011, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Yea like the esp record is a wrx that was almost 3 seconds faster than my best

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post #18 of 22 Old 03-06-2012, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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trying to bring this back from the dead, to get some more info on the building the 00 R 5.4 DOHC replica block? any info that would help would be appreciated

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post #19 of 22 Old 07-31-2013, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Just since we have another ESP one brought back, here you go autocross guys

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post #20 of 22 Old 07-31-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
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Good point. I've heard that Griggs is bankrupt, but haven't really followed up. I've never actually seen how these mount to the floorpan, does anyone know where there are pictures.

Yes, it would be allowed in ESP. I've talked to the SCCA about all this...

BANKRUPT! thats what happens when you sell your parts like they are made out of solid gold...

everyone is just going to MM instead hahaah have my cake and eat it too

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post #21 of 22 Old 08-01-2013, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Griggs Racing Products

For a bankrupt company they still pay to keep a nice website?

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post #22 of 22 Old 08-06-2013, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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I do have a question for anyone running a 35MM front bar.. I am currently running 17X10 Enkei RPF-1 and I get rub trying to take low speed tight corners. Is anyone running a small spacer or just using rack limiters??

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