Fox Mustang in STX? - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 09-17-2011, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Fox Mustang in STX?

I am starting to get a little more serious with autocross and am looking for a class to build my car for. I don't want to spend a whole lot but I want the car to be fairly competitive. I currently have 17x9 wheels and I am planning on getting 255 dunlop star spec tires or something similar for the next season. From what I have read it seems that with the 5.0L engine and 9in wide tires STX is my best bet without spending massive money. Is this the case or is there a better class out there?


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post #2 of 18 Old 09-17-2011, 07:50 PM
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If you have any drivers that aren't NOOBZ and have more than a season under their belt(and don't drive Mustangs), I don't see you being competitive....unless you're the only car in the class.

I would imagine the the rankings for a competitive Fox based on $$$$$ would go FS, then ESP, then SM

With all the new cars in FS, the Fox should really be re-classed. Sadly, I think G stock it might stand a chance, but I don't think anyone is going to champagne a Fox body in F-stock nationally to prove that point.

Bringing a mild Fox body to a local autocross, your main goal should just be to have fun and improve every run.

Not throwing the Fox body to the fires of Hell, just being honest. A supercharged Fox body I saw at a local autocross some umpteen million years ago is what made me want a Mustang(when i had an Integra).

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post #3 of 18 Old 09-18-2011, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 1990GTStang View Post
I don't want to spend a whole lot but I want the car to be fairly competitive.
Have to agree with 2k2GT.

You'll definitely have fun running a Fox in STX, but don't expect to be that competitive. Use it as an opportunity to learn how to autocross and improve your driving skills.

In near-stock trim (e.g. prepped to STX rules), the Fox is unfortunately an autocross slug compared to your typical STX Civics, BMW 32x's, RX-8's, WRX's, etc.

No amount of driving talent can make it competitive in STX, unless the competition is stoned, drunk, or out to lunch.

Sorry, hate to rain on your parade, but this is the stark reality. And I LOVE the Fox, it is my favorite Mustang, it just needs a little help.

To be fast in autocross, Fox needs more HP, significant suspension modifications, and BIG race tires or slicks, all of which takes you out of STX. It could be competitive in CP, ESP, and maybe SM but then you're talking substantially more $$$$$.

FYI heres an interesting thread about how to make a SN95 competitive in ESP. Some of these mods might make a Fox competitive in ESP, too. YMMV.

EDIT:

Well, I just re-read the 2011 STX rules and they appear to have changed a lot since I last looked at them. The following are permitted:

- bigger brakes (Cobra front brakes), including rear disk conversion
- any LSD (e.g. Detroit TrueTrac or Eaton Posi but I'm not certain if a Detroit Locker would count as an "LSD"); 3.08 diff gears permitted as per 1993 Cobra R
- adjustable camber plates
- SFC's
- Panhard bar and Torque Arm
- 17x9 rims with tires up to 265mm wide
- substitution or removal of sway bars
- coil spring changes (e.g. stiffer, lower)
- under drive pulleys
- reprogrammed ECU (e.g. timing advance, air : fuel ratio adjustment)
- any shocks
- cold air intake
- headers
- high flow cats
- suspension bushing changes
- regarding solid axle lower arms, methods of attachment and attachment
points
are unrestricted (I take this to mean anti-squat can be altered - this is huge)
- AC delete, rear seat delete, 5-lug conversion as per 1993 Cobra R
- lightweight racing seats
- strut tower braces
- 70 mm MAF, 24# injectors, 1.7 pedestal rockers, 65 mm TB, GT40 heads, GT40 intake as per 1993 Cobra R

So. . . I take that back, maybe, just maybe, with a highly skilled driver, a Fox could be competitive in STX if prepped to the maximum the rules allow . So good luck, make us Fox owners proud!

'87 Fox C-Prepared Mustang
2013, 2015 Pacific NW Regional Champ
Car has trophied at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 SCCA Nationals
Zero scrub SLA front end

Last edited by 87Fox5.0; 09-18-2011 at 07:14 PM.
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post #4 of 18 Old 09-18-2011, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 87Fox5.0 View Post
Have to agree with 2k2GT.

You'll definitely have fun running a Fox in STX, but don't expect to be that competitive. Use it as an opportunity to learn how to autocross and improve your driving skills.

In near-stock trim (e.g. prepped to STX rules), the Fox is unfortunately an autocross slug compared to your typical STX Civics, BMW 32x's, RX-8's, WRX's, etc.

No amount of driving talent can make it competitive in STX, unless the competition is stoned, drunk, or out to lunch.

Sorry, hate to rain on your parade, but this is the stark reality. And I LOVE the Fox, it is my favorite Mustang, it just needs a little help.

To be fast in autocross, Fox needs more HP, significant suspension modifications, and BIG race tires or slicks, all of which takes you out of STX. It could be competitive in CP, ESP, and maybe SM but then you're talking substantially more $$$$$.

FYI heres an interesting thread about how to make a SN95 competitive in ESP. Some of these mods might make a Fox competitive in ESP, too. YMMV.

EDIT:

Well, I just re-read the 2011 STX rules and they appear to have changed a lot since I last looked at them. The following are permitted:

- bigger brakes (Cobra front brakes), including rear disk conversion
- any LSD (e.g. Detroit TrueTrac or Eaton Posi but I'm not certain if a Detroit Locker would count as an "LSD"); 3.08 diff gears permitted as per 1993 Cobra R
- adjustable camber plates
- SFC's
- Panhard bar and Torque Arm
- 17x9 rims with tires up to 265mm wide
- substitution or removal of sway bars
- coil spring changes (e.g. stiffer, lower)
- under drive pulleys
- reprogrammed ECU (e.g. timing advance, air : fuel ratio adjustment)
- any shocks
- cold air intake
- headers
- high flow cats
- suspension bushing changes
- regarding solid axle lower arms, methods of attachment and attachment
points
are unrestricted (I take this to mean anti-squat can be altered - this is huge)
- AC delete, rear seat delete, 5-lug conversion as per 1993 Cobra R
- lightweight racing seats
- strut tower braces
- 65 mm TB and GT40 heads / GT40 intake as per 1993 Cobra R

So. . . I take that back, maybe, just maybe, with a highly skilled driver, a Fox could be competitive in STX if prepped to the maximum the rules allow . So good luck, make us Fox owners proud!
Awesome, that's what I wanted to hear. I was reading the rules for the past couple days and it looked like it might be possible to make the fox competitive with what they allow. I don't know if I will be able to do all of this before next season but I am going to try to make it competitive. At the event I just got done with today an rx-8 beat me by 4 seconds, but I beat the other mustangs by about 2 or 3 seconds (without starting to prepare the car for STX).

1990 Mustang GT

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Originally Posted by Flyinby
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post #5 of 18 Old 09-18-2011, 05:34 PM
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At the event I just got done with today an rx-8 beat me by 4 seconds, but I beat the other mustangs by about 2 or 3 seconds (without starting to prepare the car for STX).
Not trying to be Buzz Killington, but the driver is gonna make up 95+% of the vehicle.

I can rail people in some Z06's, yet still get beat by E Stock Miata's.
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post #6 of 18 Old 09-18-2011, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Not trying to be Buzz Killington, but the driver is gonna make up 95+% of the vehicle.

I can rail people in some Z06's, yet still get beat by E Stock Miata's.
Yeah I know, that's one of the things I like about autocross. I haven't been doing this very long so it feels pretty good to dominate everyone with a similar setup.

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post #7 of 18 Old 09-20-2011, 10:49 AM
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There are people out there that think the fox could be competitve nationally in STX.

Steve Rife
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post #8 of 18 Old 09-20-2011, 11:18 AM
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There are people out there that think the fox could be competitve nationally in STX.
I think I can win the state lottery as well.
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post #9 of 18 Old 09-20-2011, 06:13 PM
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A fox body in the right trim is pretty close to the same weight as the competitve E36 BMW's and RX8's and it makes more power. You can maximize the wheel/tire rules. The rear suspension isn't great for autocross, but you can change that under the rules, make the car stiff enough that the camber curve doesn't hurt the car as much, add a diff that puts down power, etc. Today's tires are good and you can run 255's or 265's on a wide wheel.

Yeah, you can't through a few random parts at a car and run a few events and expect to run with well prepped, well thought out cars, but I think a fox in STX is a great idea. Outside of CP, it is the best place for the car.

Steve Rife
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post #10 of 18 Old 09-22-2011, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87Fox5.0 View Post
Well, I just re-read the 2011 STX rules and they appear to have changed a lot since I last looked at them. The following are permitted:

- bigger brakes (Cobra front brakes), including rear disk conversion
- any LSD (e.g. Detroit TrueTrac or Eaton Posi but I'm not certain if a Detroit Locker would count as an "LSD"); 3.08 diff gears permitted as per 1993 Cobra R
- adjustable camber plates
- SFC's
- Panhard bar and Torque Arm
- 17x9 rims with tires up to 265mm wide
- substitution or removal of sway bars
- coil spring changes (e.g. stiffer, lower)
- under drive pulleys
- reprogrammed ECU (e.g. timing advance, air : fuel ratio adjustment)
- any shocks
- cold air intake
- headers
- high flow cats
- suspension bushing changes
- regarding solid axle lower arms, methods of attachment and attachment
points
are unrestricted (I take this to mean anti-squat can be altered - this is huge)
- AC delete, rear seat delete, 5-lug conversion as per 1993 Cobra R
- lightweight racing seats
- strut tower braces
- 70 mm MAF, 24# injectors, 1.7 pedestal rockers, 65 mm TB, GT40 heads, GT40 intake as per 1993 Cobra R
Holy crap..........I think this just inspired me to get a second job to start autocrossing again!


MM subs, springs, and cc plates, Koni SA's, Steeda x2's, front bar, and bumpsteer kit
DBA Rotors, Hawk HPS's, FRPP 3.73's, Eaton diff, and 17x9 Cobra R's with 285 Kuhmo XS's
2008 SJ SCCA Rookie of the Year and 2010/2011 SJ SCCA Solo Chair
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post #11 of 18 Old 09-23-2011, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciotti View Post
Holy crap..........I think this just inspired me to get a second job to start autocrossing again!
Apparently coilovers are permitted in STX too. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) But this is freakin' huge.

My street-driven '89 Fox just happens to be prepped very close to STX allowances. I just may have to try this out!

ADDENDUM: YES, I just confirmed with some STX drivers, COILOVERS ARE DEFINITELY PERMITTED IN STX.

'87 Fox C-Prepared Mustang
2013, 2015 Pacific NW Regional Champ
Car has trophied at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 SCCA Nationals
Zero scrub SLA front end

Last edited by 87Fox5.0; 09-23-2011 at 12:30 AM.
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post #12 of 18 Old 09-23-2011, 03:16 AM
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Holy crap..........I think this just inspired me to get a second job to start autocrossing again!
Well, you gotta admit, the payout is GREAT!
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post #13 of 18 Old 09-23-2011, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 87Fox5.0 View Post
Apparently coilovers are permitted in STX too. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) But this is freakin' huge.

My street-driven '89 Fox just happens to be prepped very close to STX allowances. I just may have to try this out!

ADDENDUM: YES, I just confirmed with some STX drivers, COILOVERS ARE DEFINITELY PERMITTED IN STX.
Your friends may not be aware of the Mustang's suspension.

Steve Rife
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-23-2011, 04:13 PM
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Your friends may not be aware of the Mustang's suspension.
You are correct, an STX Mustang owner just pointed this out to me.

Since the OEM coils are separate from the shock absorber, coilovers are not permitted on a Fox in STX. Other cars like a Civic can run coilovers. (How fair is that?)

Guess I'll be sticking with CP.

EDIT:

I suppose if you were really serious you could do somthing like this, where just the coilover springs are mounted in the OEM spring positions and the shocks remain separate; you'd have to fabricate perches and add collars to retain the smaller diameter springs.

This is not a Fox but an idea along these lines, except in a Fox the spring would come off the rear control arm (in the rear), and off the A arm (in front):






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2013, 2015 Pacific NW Regional Champ
Car has trophied at 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 SCCA Nationals
Zero scrub SLA front end

Last edited by 87Fox5.0; 09-23-2011 at 04:28 PM.
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post #15 of 18 Old 09-23-2011, 06:10 PM
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If you already have coilovers, then I can see where you are coming from...

If you think you'd need coilovers, well, the ESP folks go plenty fast without coilovers.

I'm pretty heavy into the Civic autocross thing, but I've been giving the fox idea a lot of thought lately. I ran STX at nats and a lot of guys in the class have thought about building one, they just don't necessarily have interest in Mustangs as street cars.

Steve Rife
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post #16 of 18 Old 09-23-2011, 06:20 PM
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stupid question, if you run the MM Max grip box. what class would that put you into roughly?? The car would be a 2.3 with a cage and "some" motor work.


edit: sorry for the hijack
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post #17 of 18 Old 09-24-2011, 09:41 AM
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I think a Fox in STX could be very, very interesting. If I ever have enough spare change for a spare toy car, I would be tempted to build a Fox to STX specs and use it for dual duty - local STX and track day stuff.

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post #18 of 18 Old 10-01-2011, 08:12 AM
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That list of parts for STX isn't going to be cheap, especially if you have to source OEM parts. The best bet for cheap and competitive is to buy someone else's CP car, where they've sunk in all that money and can't get it back out.

Justin
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